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As Don King Used to Say

Gotta make the shots count.

Here is a nice excercise for your mind. If you are so inclined.

You are transported magicly back in time to 1300. You are on the east coast of the US with the ocean at your back.

You have a horse, a mule, 500 water proof matches, your choice of one knife, one long gun, one pistol, 500 rounds for both guns, (if you like they may both use the same caliber) one coat, one tent, and 50 lbs of supplies.

Knife. My Spyderco. Locking blade, belt clip, not serrated.

Pistol. A Glock 17 or other full sized Glock. I want a pistol that can take abuse, can be cleaned in a bucket of muddy water, and will work just fine when its only lubricant is the grease from my nose.

Long gun. 12ga pump action shotgun. Winchester, Mossberg or Remington so long as it has replaceable chokes.. For ammunition, I'll take 300 rounds of birdshot and 200 rounds of buckshot.

50 pounds of supplies. A good antibiotic. Rubbing alcohol. A first aid kit. Vicodin. Multivitamins. A sleeping bag that's good to 20 below and foam underpad. Medicines and tools to care for the horse and mule. Blankets for the horse and mule. Three compasses and two maps of the terrain. One compass will be carried by me, and one will be on each animal. A map will be on each animal. An axe. A saw. A whetstone. A drill bit with flats ground onto the shank so I can put it into a bow drill. Seed packets for various plants. Snare wire. A US Army survival manual and a Boy Scout handbook. One of those batteryless flashlights. A batteryless laser pointer to convince the natives that I am a god. Condoms.

The rest of the supplies will be 50% beef jerky, 30% nuts and cereals, and 20% dried fruits.
 
I have this shirt, my dad bought it for me after I started shooting pistols:

rect-atf-black.jpg


I think that about describes it for me.

HA!

I also have this shirt that he bought me at the same time:

rect-diversitybk.jpg
 
Er, no.

"Lend-Lease (Public Law 77-11)[1] was the name of the program under which the United States of America supplied the United Kingdom, the Soviet Union, China, France and other Allied nations with vast amounts of war material between 1941 and 1945 in return for, in the case of Britain, military bases in Newfoundland, Bermuda, and the British West Indies. It began in March 1941, over 18 months after the outbreak of the war in September 1939."

My emphasis. Source:
Lend-Lease - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Still, don't get me wrong. I'd much rather live in a world with the US as superpower than, say, China.


Who said anything about Lend/Lease? I'm talking about how American citizens answered Britain's call for help before our government decided to do anything.

Twin Butte Bunch
 
Again I have to go back to the simple fact that a disassembled gun locked in a safe is a piece of steel with no value. Almost 100,000 forceable rapes in the US each year are reported. Unknown the number that are not reported. Here is a intersting fact. For a forcible rape to occur that means the police did not stop it from happening. No one stopped it. A woman with a concealed weapons permit, that has her gun with her is very very very very unlikely to be raped. Your idea removes this option from her.

Your plan allows the largest, strongest, and most violent to rule. It is a horrible idea, and just wrong.

Here is another neat little tidbit of info. People with CCDW are upstanding citizens, have went thru training, made a effort to understand the use of deadly force, paid lic. fees, and are very very very very under represented in the commision of crime.

Its sorta like that ATGATT deal. If you need it you cant go home and get it, but 99.9999999999% of the time you dont need it.

All your plan does is remove the ability to defend themselves from those who follow the law and give those who disobey it more power.

That in my mind makes it a flawed plan, that will cause damage.
I really wish you would take the time to read what i write.I never at any point said gun's should stay locked up 24-7.I was trying to get the point across to you that a gun has a purpose as a tool.such as your rape reference a loaded gun in her purse would be a great thing too have,But once she is back at home with the kid's it is out of the purse and locked up!!!! THANKYOU FOR TAKING THE TIME TOO ACTUALLY READ THIS.
 
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=388M8L7vOXc"]YouTube - Rage Against The Machine - Wake Up + lyrics[/ame] HOW LONG? NOT LONG !!!BECAUSE WHAT YOU REAP IS WHAT YOU SEW!!!!:rockon:
 
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Cool - I didn't know about that, thanks - those are the little nuggets of discovery that make history so interesting. We'd probably agree it didn't affect the outcome of the Battle of Britain, but I do take your point that, if the Germans had invaded Britain in 1940, without guns any resistance from the general population would have been less effective.
 
It may have been stated earlier but I wanted to clarify just in case:

The OP was confused, what they were saying is in Massachucetts you need a permit to buy or possess a gun. You basically need your local sheriff to decide whether or not your constitutional right to bear arms actually applies in his town. I used to live there, my guns did not. I have a CCP in PA and own guns, I couldn't bring them to my house in MA without a sheriff's say so. As for getting a CCP in MA, fat chance. In most states you don't need a permit to buy a gun- it is your RIGHT to do so after a background check. You DO however need a license to carry it concealed in public.
 
It may have been stated earlier but I wanted to clarify just in case:

The OP was confused, what they were saying is in Massachucetts you need a permit to buy or possess a gun. You basically need your local sheriff to decide whether or not your constitutional right to bear arms actually applies in his town. I used to live there, my guns did not. I have a CCP in PA and own guns, I couldn't bring them to my house in MA without a sheriff's say so. As for getting a CCP in MA, fat chance. In most states you don't need a permit to buy a gun- it is your RIGHT to do so after a background check. You DO however need a license to carry it concealed in public.

I wasn't "confused". I was telling you my conversation with a customer and one of the employees. The customer was the one who (with the employee nodding his approval) said that MA residents need a permit to carry.
 
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Touchy touchy! Now I'M confused. Mass residents DO need a permit to carry, the point was that so do NH and Maine and anyone else. They just don't need a local yocal personally deciding who has constitutional rights and who doesn't- that's a Mass thing. I hate Massachucetts government but like the area though. Great steak and cheese but your Greek pizza sucks. The Deval should look into that.
 
I really wish you would take the time to read what i write.I never at any point said gun's should stay locked up 24-7.I was trying to get the point across to you that a gun has a purpose as a tool.such as your rape reference a loaded gun in her purse would be a great thing too have,But once she is back at home with the kid's it is out of the purse and locked up!!!! THANKYOU FOR TAKING THE TIME TOO ACTUALLY READ THIS.


I certainly did read it. You need a loaded firearm readly accesable at home too. To have any value you must be able to use it when you need it. Home invasion murder, beatings, rapes are common. It can happen to YOU! It happens to several people every single day.

I promise I read the stuff I reply to. I may read it wrong, or misunderstand though. I respect everyone of you on here, but I will disagree, and present reasons why. This is something that I am passonate about because I believe people are being fed lies, halftruths, and twisted info on the right and duty of self defense.
 
Knife. My Spyderco. Locking blade, belt clip, not serrated.

Pistol. A Glock 17 or other full sized Glock. I want a pistol that can take abuse, can be cleaned in a bucket of muddy water, and will work just fine when its only lubricant is the grease from my nose.

Long gun. 12ga pump action shotgun. Winchester, Mossberg or Remington so long as it has replaceable chokes.. For ammunition, I'll take 300 rounds of birdshot and 200 rounds of buckshot.

50 pounds of supplies. A good antibiotic. Rubbing alcohol. A first aid kit. Vicodin. Multivitamins. A sleeping bag that's good to 20 below and foam underpad. Medicines and tools to care for the horse and mule. Blankets for the horse and mule. Three compasses and two maps of the terrain. One compass will be carried by me, and one will be on each animal. A map will be on each animal. An axe. A saw. A whetstone. A drill bit with flats ground onto the shank so I can put it into a bow drill. Seed packets for various plants. Snare wire. A US Army survival manual and a Boy Scout handbook. One of those batteryless flashlights. A batteryless laser pointer to convince the natives that I am a god. Condoms.

The rest of the supplies will be 50% beef jerky, 30% nuts and cereals, and 20% dried fruits.

That is a awesome kit Fred.

Very well thought out. Never considered the value of drill bits, or thought to bring condoms. LOL

I would take my smith .357 pistol, and marlin .357 lever action carbine. Effectively doubling the ammo supply, and redundency in case of loss or destruction of one gun. Knife fairborn applegate would be my choice. Supplies are quite simular to yours, except you thought of some stuff I missed. Multiple compass and maps, condoms, drillbits, and laser pointer. I would definitley have two of the pump action water purifiers, and damn good hat, and a extra pair of aslo waterproof boots.
 
I certainly did read it. You need a loaded firearm readly accesable at home too. To have any value you must be able to use it when you need it. Home invasion murder, beatings, rapes are common. It can happen to YOU! It happens to several people every single day.

I promise I read the stuff I reply to. I may read it wrong, or misunderstand though. I respect everyone of you on here, but I will disagree, and present reasons why. This is something that I am passonate about because I believe people are being fed lies, halftruths, and twisted info on the right and duty of self defense.
I totally agree with this! we are treated like mushrooms fed a bunch of bullcrap and kept in the dark by our leaders,I understand a loaded weapon is needed avilable in a household,but only acessable by the owner of the firearm.i hope this clears up my stand on the subject. P.S. i posted the wake up song because it is about how the goverment is taking our rights away in the name of freedom.:rockon:
 
This is either

1. A wonderful display of American freedom, self reliance, and, likely to result in safer neighborhoods and homes.

2. Crazy, dangerous, and likely to result in accidental deaths, and vigilante injustice.

I'm glad to see gun control in areas of high homicide rates, and sad to see it in areas of low crime and high gun literacy.

Side note: Guns aren't the big weapons that they were in 1776. If the founding fathers intended the second amendment to help repel an invading force or keep the government from coming to get you, the right to bear arms needs to extend to rocket launchers, grenades and nuclear bombs. How many of you folks trust the idiot down the street with a rocket launcher?
 
LOL LOL

thats the great thing about the right to keep and bear arms. The military is made of our people. I believe they will support the people in defense of the constition. They swear to uphold the constition.

3,000,000 soldiers which half are reserves.
294,000,000 americans. just under half own a gun.
Call it 125,000,000 with a few left over.
Of the 3,000,000 military members, how many would fire on american citizens if there were a uprising against a government obviously violating the constition? How many would stand with the citizens against that?

We wouldnt use nuclear weapons on our own government. That wouldnt work. The government and military are drasticly out numbered. It was meant to be that way. Jefferson was a genius.
 
I'm glad to see gun control in areas of high homicide rates, and sad to see it in areas of low crime and high gun literacy.



If I'm reading your comment correctly, I would argue that the reason you have areas of high homicide rates is precisely because of gun control in those areas. (Or gangbangers taking each other out, in which case I say do nothing. ;) )
 
If I'm reading your comment correctly, I would argue that the reason you have areas of high homicide rates is precisely because of gun control in those areas. (Or gangbangers taking each other out, in which case I say do nothing. ;) )

Exactly. Case in point, Washington D.C. One of the highest murder rates in the country, but gun ownership by private citizens was COMPLETELY banned(until recently when the supreme court struck it down)
 
Exactly. Case in point, Washington D.C. One of the highest murder rates in the country, but gun ownership by private citizens was COMPLETELY banned(until recently when the supreme court struck it down)

I'd hardly say they struck it down. Look into the decision and what actually came of it. Heller, the man who brought forth the case, actually had his application for ownership denied after the case.

From Wikipedia:

Dick Heller's application to register his semi-automatic pistol was rejected because the gun was a bottom-loading weapon, and according to the District's interpretation, all bottom-loading guns, including magazine-fed non-assault-style rifles, are outlawed because they are grouped with machine guns.[62] Revolvers will likely not fall under such a ban.[63]

On December 16, 2008 the D.C. Council unanimously passed the Registration Amendment Act of 2008 which addresses the issues raised in the Heller Supreme Court decision, and also puts in place a number of registration requirements to update and strengthen the District's gun laws.[64]

The Supreme Court case looked, as the media showed it, as a major gain or foothold for individual rights in the United States. However, as this shows, it was really only a decision made to appease the general public, and really actually didn't do very much of anything. If the media had broadcast this for what it was actually worth, NOTHING, there might have been some public outcry, but they said, "Oh Heller won and now they're allowed to have guns" and everybody forgot about it before anyone actually looked into it, and the truth of the story will probably not come to light to the public at large.

Most people will only remember, "oh they can have guns now good for them", and leave it at that.

This decision DID NOT make any gains for individual rights or gun rights.

DC will continue to have a high murder rate. They won't un-ban guns. Politicians are scared of 2 things, guns and cameras, and they're working on the second one...

Also, here's another fun fact:
The "Wild" West was really the "Mild" West. Just about everybody owned and carried guns. There was very little established government, if any in most towns. No government to enforce laws, no sheriffs, people had to protect their own property rights. This would mean that people were always getting shot and killed by guns right?
WRONG!! Today we supposedly have a more civil society. There were actually less murders in the "Wild" West. There is something on the order of 5-7 times the number of murders per capita today than there was then. I had a source with some of the statistics but I misplaced it.

However, I have this fun story:

25 years murder-free
in 'Gun Town USA'
Crime rate plummeted after law
required firearms for residents
Posted: April 19, 2007
1:52 pm Eastern

© 2009 WorldNetDaily.com




Kennesaw, Ga., City Hall

As the nation debates whether more guns or fewer can prevent tragedies like the Virginia Tech Massacre, a notable anniversary passed last month in a Georgia town that witnessed a dramatic plunge in crime and violence after mandating residents to own firearms.

In March 1982, 25 years ago, the small town of Kennesaw – responding to a handgun ban in Morton Grove, Ill. – unanimously passed an ordinance requiring each head of household to own and maintain a gun. Since then, despite dire predictions of "Wild West" showdowns and increased violence and accidents, not a single resident has been involved in a fatal shooting – as a victim, attacker or defender.

The crime rate initially plummeted for several years after the passage of the ordinance, with the 2005 per capita crime rate actually significantly lower than it was in 1981, the year before passage of the law.

Prior to enactment of the law, Kennesaw had a population of just 5,242 but a crime rate significantly higher (4,332 per 100,000) than the national average (3,899 per 100,000). The latest statistics available – for the year 2005 – show the rate at 2,027 per 100,000. Meanwhile, the population has skyrocketed to 28,189.

(Story continues below)

By comparison, the population of Morton Grove, the first city in Illinois to adopt a gun ban for anyone other than police officers, has actually dropped slightly and stands at 22,202, according to 2005 statistics. More significantly, perhaps, the city's crime rate increased by 15.7 percent immediately after the gun ban, even though the overall crime rate in Cook County rose only 3 percent. Today, by comparison, the township's crime rate stands at 2,268 per 100,000.

This was not what some predicted.

In a column titled "Gun Town USA," Art Buchwald suggested Kennesaw would soon become a place where routine disagreements between neighbors would be settled in shootouts. The Washington Post mocked Kennesaw as "the brave little city … soon to be pistol-packing capital of the world." Phil Donahue invited the mayor on his show.

Reuters, the European news service, today revisited the Kennesaw controversy following the Virginia Tech Massacre.

Police Lt. Craig Graydon said: "When the Kennesaw law was passed in 1982 there was a substantial drop in crime … and we have maintained a really low crime rate since then. We are sure it is one of the lowest (crime) towns in the metro area." Kennesaw is just north of Atlanta.

The Reuters story went on to report: "Since the Virginia Tech shootings, some conservative U.S. talk show hosts have rejected attempts to link the massacre to the availability of guns, arguing that had students been allowed to carry weapons on campus someone might have been able to shoot the killer."

Virginia Tech, like many of the nation's schools and college campuses, is a so-called "gun-free zone," which Second Amendment supporters say invites gun violence – especially from disturbed individuals seeking to kill as many victims as possible.

Cho Seung-Hui murdered 32 and wounded another 15 before turning his gun on himself.

What do you have to say about that?
 
Steve, I'd say you've made some pretty good points. I think you've actually convinced me to get that permit to carry. One of my town's cops is a friend of mine and has offered in the past to accompany me to the police station to apply for the permit and I think I'm finally going to take him up on it. Just don't tell Felicia (my wife).
 
Well Norm that just freaking tickles me!!!!! :Flash::thumbup:

You will be one more person that takes responsibility for their own safety health and well being. That is the best thing we can hope for. I wish you success.

P.S. Good police officers like armed law abiding citizens. The sheepdogs need all the help they can get keeping the wolves at bay.
 
One Vietnam veteran, an old retired colonel, once said this to me: "Most of the people in our society are sheep. They are kind, gentle, productive creatures who can only hurt one another by accident."
This is true. Remember, the murder rate is six per 100,000 per year, and the aggravated assault rate is four per 1,000 per year. What this means is that the vast majority of Americans are not inclined to hurt one another.
Some estimates say that two million Americans are victims of violent crimes every year, a tragic, staggering number, perhaps an all-time record rate of violent crime. But there are almost 300 million total Americans, which means that the odds of being a victim of violent crime is considerably less than one in a hundred on any given year. Furthermore, since many violent crimes are committed by repeat offenders, the actual number of violent citizens is considerably less than two million.
Thus there is a paradox, and we must grasp both ends of the situation: We may well be in the most violent times in history, but violence is still remarkably rare. This is because most citizens are kind, decent people who are not capable of hurting each other, except by accident or under extreme provocation. They are sheep.
I mean nothing negative by calling them sheep. To me it is like the pretty, blue robin's egg. Inside it is soft and gooey but someday it will grow into something wonderful. But the egg cannot survive without its hard blue shell. Police officers, soldiers and other warriors are like that shell, and someday the civilization they protect will grow into something wonderful. For now, though, they need warriors to protect them from the predators.
"Then there are the wolves," the old war veteran said, "and the wolves feed on the sheep without mercy." Do you believe there are wolves out there who will feed on the flock without mercy? You better believe it. There are evil men in this world and they are capable of evil deeds. The moment you forget that or pretend it is not so, you become a sheep. There is no safety in denial.
"Then there are sheepdogs," he went on, "and I'm a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf." Or, as a sign in one California law enforcement agency put it, "We intimidate those who intimidate others."
If you have no capacity for violence then you are a healthy productive citizen: a sheep. If you have a capacity for violence and no empathy for your fellow citizens, then you have defined an aggressive sociopath--a wolf. But what if you have a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow citizens? Then you are a sheepdog, a warrior, someone who is walking the hero's path. Someone who can walk into the heart of darkness, into the universal human phobia, and walk out unscathed.
He continues:
Let me expand on this old soldier's excellent model of the sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs. We know that the sheep live in denial; that is what makes them sheep. They do not want to believe that there is evil in the world. They can accept the fact that fires can happen, which is why they want fire extinguishers, fire sprinklers, fire alarms and fire exits throughout their kids' schools. But many of them are outraged at the idea of putting an armed police officer in their kid's school. Our children are dozens of times more likely to be killed, and thousands of times more likely to be seriously injured, by school violence than by school fires, but the sheep's only response to the possibility of violence is denial. The idea of someone coming to kill or harm their children is just too hard, so they choose the path of denial.
The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, cannot and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheepdog that intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed. The world cannot work any other way, at least not in a representative democracy or a republic such as ours.
Still, the sheepdog disturbs the sheep. He is a constant reminder that there are wolves in the land. They would prefer that he didn't tell them where to go, or give them traffic tickets, or stand at the ready in our airports in camouflage fatigues holding an M-16. The sheep would much rather have the sheepdog cash in his fangs, spray paint himself white, and go, "Baa." Until the wolf shows up. Then the entire flock tries desperately to hide behind one lonely sheepdog. As Kipling said in his poem about "Tommy" the British soldier:
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that,
an' "Tommy, fall be'ind,"
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir,"
when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys,
there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir,"
when there's trouble in the wind.
Understand that there is nothing morally superior about being a sheepdog; it is just what you choose to be. Also understand that a sheepdog is a funny critter: He is always sniffing around out on the perimeter, checking the breeze, barking at things that go bump in the night, and yearning for a righteous battle. That is, the young sheepdogs yearn for a righteous battle. The old sheepdogs are a little older and wiser, but they move to the sound of the guns when needed right along with the young ones.
Here is how the sheep and the sheepdog think differently. The sheep pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day.
 
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