Antifreeze/Coolant-Brand

[Raid The Revenge]

Would anyone like to recommend a good bottle?

Premixed? Dex-Cool? The Orange stuff that lasts for 4 years?

Temperature Ratio?

Thanks for your help.

 

[HavBlue]

The two most common chemicals used as antifreeze are ethylene and propylene glycol. One is environmentally friendly and the other is not. Note that all antifreeze chemicals are not created equal. Some are intended for regions with extreme temperature variations, while others are formulated for summer months with higher heat ranges. In the case of ethylene glycol where the chemical smells and tastes sweet this can be very inviting to pets and animals while propylene glycol is a bit less inviting. They can both cause serious illness if internally consumed although the propylene will take longer to effect the biologic system.

Buying antifreeze comes down to the level of protection you want, the make-up you want in terms of diluted or pure and what you want to pay for it. I like buying the pure antifreeze and I mix it 50/50 with distilled water hence helping to eliminate the rust factor caused by air/mineral coagulation. I also use propylene glycol.

 

[Raid The Revenge]

<Elm gives HAVBLUE a big hug>

I spent all day going on a quest for the best. In the end, I discovered there's no such thing! I was mad.

The problem is our demands; they're all different.

Here's what I learned:
[Green=Regular, [COLOR="DarkOrange"]Orange=DexCool]

-You can use any coolant/antifreeze you want. (See below)
-The chemical must be good for aluminum (most are and the bottle says so).
-Green is good.
-Orange has a bad reputation.
-Mixing Orange and Green is NEVER a good idea; unless the bottle says so.
-I would NEVER mix Orange and Green.
-Orange is sometimes referred to as RED, but I don't think it looks one bit red. Oh well.
-Mixing Old and New is NEVER a good idea; unless you're simply topping up.
-Top up ONLY with Pure coolant or a 50/50 mix, NEVER just water, unless you use ONLY water.
-You can buy ALREADY MIXED 50/50 bottles. Some claim they're a ripoff because you pay for half a bottle of water.
-Only water is a bad idea, but it works.
-If you choose to change colors, it's RECOMMENDED to perform a FLUSH.
-It's ALWAYS recommeded to perform a FLUSH.
-Orange can last up to 5 years/ 150,000 miles.
-Green can last up to 2 years/ ??? miles.
-Orange MUST be topped up HIGH to prevent any air contamination.
-Green SHOULD be topped up HIGH to prevent any air contamination.
-I MEAN IT! YOU MUST KEEP ORANGE TOPPED UP HIGH! VERY TOP! TO THE BRIM!
-Air + Orange = BAD!
-Orange is weak against air?
-GM likes Orange, but said their Radiator System was faulty. Air got into the system and turned the Orange into MUD. This made LOTS of people mad.
-LOTS of people use Orange.
-MORE people use Green.
-Orange has a lower pH than Green on average. (Orange is less Basic)
-Distilled water is ALWAYS better than TAP water, but TAP is good too.
-The best ratios are between 50:50 and 66.6:33.3.
-66.6:33.3 offers the strongest protection from temperature, but weak against corrosion and rust.
-50:50 is good against temp AND good against corrosion and rust, but doesn't give the best temperature protection.
-You can check your antifreeze ratio with a coolant/antifreeze meter.
-You can check the age of your coolant/antifreeze with a voltmeter.
-Water wetter adds + protection against a HOT temperature.
-Some people use a Water Wetter and Water ratio of 50/50.
-Liquid cooling systems are complicated.
-HAVBLUE said, Propylene is enviromentally better than Ethlyene.

Here's what I recommend.

This is good for Orange Users:[/COLOR]

PRESTONE DEX-COOL Ext. LIFE
-Good on motorcycles, including aluminum engines. Lasts 5 years/150,000 miles.

This is good for FLUSHES:

-Great to use in between Changes, especially between Green and Orange.

This is my chosen Brand:

-It's green and biodegradable.

 

[HavBlue]

Prestone LowTox is good but I have found that Sierra performs just as well and it costs less too.

SIERRA Antifreeze Home Page

 

[Raid The Revenge]

So there you have it kiddies. The greener the Antifreeze/Coolant, the better. )

(Greener as in, "Enviromentally Friendly.")

 

[wolfc70]

I have used Honda's coolant for years and am very pleased with the results. I think any Japanese auto coolant will work fine. Why Japanese? The Japanese have for a long time spec'd silicate free coolant. Silicates were initially added to prevent aluminum corrosion, but have caused some interesting problems over the years. Silicates tend to gel and settle in the coolest parts of the cooling system, causing radiator plugging and overheating. Silicate inhibitors are difficult to stabilize and, therefore, limit coolant shelf life. Honda's coolant is silicate free, which is also good for the water pumps.

Dex-cool is a whole different animal. It is a Organic Acid Technology (OAT) which should never be used in a vehicle that did not have it as a factory fill. If you do not have a MLS head gasket, it may eat through it like the Ford OHC V8's.

There are many green silicate free coolants out there, and are probably the most cost effective choice. Or pick any Japanese coolant, as there are silicate free, but can be more costly.

 

[Raid The Revenge]

-The Best Coolant/Antifreeze-Elm-

My quest is over! I'm putting the scythe away, for I have discovered the best Antifreeze/Coolants of all time. Here are the requirements:

1)Motorcycle Compatible
2)Aluminum Engine Compatible
3)Silicate Free/Low
4)Propylene based

BONUS
-Long Lasting
-Mixable

My plan was to find an Antifreeze/Coolant that works in ships and boats.
The best coolant/antifreeze is found in BOATS!
--That's right! BOATS! Why?

-BOAT engines generate extreme heat!
-BOAT engines withstand extreme cold! Including ice!
-BOAT engines CANNOT have harmful chemicals in them, or they'll leak into the ocean!
-BOAT engines are weak to rust; so you want to prevent CORROSION more than ever!

With this knowledge in hand, I embarked for antifreeze/coolant brands that work in BOATS! THEN, I made sure the chemical would also work in Motorcycles too! Grandeur.

AMSOIL

CONFIRMED FEATURES
-Yellow
-Motorcycles, ATV's, Snowmobiles, Closed Marine Engines
-Lasts up to 250,000 miles or 7 years
-Propylene based
-Silicate Low/Free
-Aluminum Engine Safe
-Mixable
-Long Lasting
-Universal
-Used by United States Police Departments, Fire Departments and Construction

ENGINE ICE

CONFIRMED FEATURES
-Blue
-Premixed 50/50
-Motorcycles, Off-Road Vehicles, Snowmobiles
-Recommended change 2 times/year (racing), 1 time/year non-racing.
-Propylene based
-Silicate Free/Phosphate Free
-Engine Aluminum Safe
-Increased Cooling Capability
-257 F Boil-Over and -27 F Antifreeze
-Used by professional racers

KOSTGard® Enviro Automotive Antifreeze

-Rare
-Follows the same parameters of AMSOIL
-Need more information

Japanese Coolants are GOOD. They have no/low silicates and ALL work on aluminum engines. However, NOT ALL are proylene based. Do your own research. I'm done.

 

[Nelly]

The two most common chemicals used as antifreeze are ethylene and propylene glycol. One is environmentally friendly and the other is not. Note that all antifreeze chemicals are not created equal. Some are intended for regions with extreme temperature variations, while others are formulated for summer months with higher heat ranges. In the case of ethylene glycol where the chemical smells and tastes sweet this can be very inviting to pets and animals while propylene glycol is a bit less inviting. They can both cause serious illness if internally consumed although the propylene will take longer to effect the biologic system.

Buying antifreeze comes down to the level of protection you want, the make-up you want in terms of diluted or pure and what you want to pay for it. I like buying the pure antifreeze and I mix it 50/50 with distilled water hence helping to eliminate the rust factor caused by air/mineral coagulation. I also use propylene glycol.

Nice one Charlie,
As a side in terms of toxicity the antidote for the ethanol / ethylene products is dehydrated alcohol infusion (UK). Last year we saw a number of antifreeze ingestions in our department. The effects are profound acidosis, renal impairment and often permanent damage to vision. This is very dangerous stuff indeed.

This one particular night shift we ran out of the antidote.
The alternative treatment is to administer clear oral alcohol of 40% proof. Vodka, gin ect.
We had a guy come in with antifreeze ingestion and he was delighted that we had to run over to the 24 hour garage and purchase him a bottle of vodka.
The administration intervals are 150mls of 40% alcohol every 4 hours. He was delighted that we kept him inebriated for two days. The alcohol binds on to the ethanol and allows better excretion through the liver and kidneys. It is not a cure, just a life saving measure. The patient went on to become blind.

 

[Raid The Revenge]

FLUSHES
--------
As mentioned previously, it's always recommended to do a FLUSH when changing the coolant/antifreeze; especially if you plan on changing colors.

You can use this:

I've heard from some people that it can be very strong. IF you don't enjoy the idea of putting a 'strong' flush down your cooling system, then use this instead!

WHITE VINEGAR
and

DISTILLED WATER
50/50 mix. Put the mixture into your cooling system, making sure you seal all lids and connectors, then run your engine until it reaches medium temperature.

Drain the vinegar/water mixture (50/50) and repeat the process again with pure distilled water (100%). Drain.

Now add your coolant/antifreeze mixture. This is a cheap BUT HIGHLY effective FLUSH and it's ECO-FRIENDLY.

 

[Raid The Revenge]

CHECKING ANTIFREEZE/COOLANT with a VOLTMETER

You can check the expiration of your antifreeze/coolant with a Voltmeter!

Stick the ground pin to the battery negative or engine. Put the positive pin IN the coolant WITHOUT touching anything else. It should measure less than 0.500 v dc. Anymore than that an it needs to be replaced. Make sure you do this procedure right...don't burn yourself or anything.

You can also use testing strips. Buy them at an automotive shop and read the package on how to use them.

 

[HavBlue]

Nice one Charlie,
As a side in terms of toxicity the antidote for the ethanol / ethylene products is dehydrated alcohol infusion (UK). Last year we saw a number of antifreeze ingestions in our department. The effects are profound acidosis, renal impairment and often permanent damage to vision. This is very dangerous stuff indeed.

This one particular night shift we ran out of the antidote.
The alternative treatment is to administer clear oral alcohol of 40% proof. Vodka, gin ect.
We had a guy come in with antifreeze ingestion and he was delighted that we had to run over to the 24 hour garage and purchase him a bottle of vodka.
The administration intervals are 150mls of 40% alcohol every 4 hours. He was delighted that we kept him inebriated for two days. The alcohol binds on to the ethanol and allows better excretion through the liver and kidneys. It is not a cure, just a life saving measure. The patient went on to become blind.

Right you are, the biologic issues associated with ingestion of any antifreeze are scary.

Elm, the secret to antifreeze and rust is air. Using distilled water (even in the flush cycle) will reduce the introduction of water based minerals into the system and being sure that system is well sealed will only extend the life of that same antifreeze. You will also note that once again we find the need to read the directions as some antifreeze are not suitable for all aluminum engines. One must buy the right product for the right application regardless of the manufacturer. Now, for those that like knowing what is in a product. Here in the United States, anyone that stores a hazardous material must also keep the MSDS (Material Data Safety Sheet) on file for that product and this gets around the proprietary nature of some products. If you can't determine what is in the product due to proprietary issues ask for a copy of that MSDS..

 

[Doorag]

Don't know about anyone else, but I think this is a great thread. Thanks for all the research!!!

 

[Raid The Revenge]

<Elm gives Doorag and BIG HUG>

 

[jamesfz6]

I just bought some blue stuff from cycle gear that seems to be working ok. I changed out the plugs on my bike and i went ahead and changed the coolant too.

The stuff i have is "track ready" coolant. I just got it because they only had the one brand in stock at the time. Im not sure if it makes a difference in the actual cooling of the motor.

 

[Raid The Revenge]

Antifreeze-Coolant-Color

We still have so much to learn!

Coolant/Antifreeze is designed to do 3 tasks:

-Prevent engine overheating
-Prevent engine freeze
-Prevent corrosion

Ultimately, there are 3 different types of coolant/antifreeze:

-Inorganic Additive Tech (IAT)
-Organic Additive Tech (OAT)
-Hybrid Organic Additive Tech (HOAT)

In all cases, the chemicals are constantly reapplying layers of protective corrosion inhibitors on the inside of the cooling system, thus THAT'S why the coolant/antifreeze levels slightly decrease over time and need to be topped up.

On the market, there are several different Coolants/Antifreeze types available. A whole RAINBOW of colors exist! Here's a brief summary of each one:

NOTE - Color alone cannot directly identify a coolant/antifreeze. Even if you have a strong idea, DON'T MIX DIFFERENT COLORS and BE CAREFUL when mixing the same ones! If something bad happens to you because of this, then don't get mad at me! I'm innocent!

CLEAR - Antifreeze/Coolant in it's mechanical form is clear like water. This is rectified with an indication dye, because the geeky scientists want to show-off their different solutions. Plus, CLEAR antifreeze/coolant would easily be mistaken as water, which is BAD! (Remember the last post by the STIG?)

Here's the rest:

I'm really tired. I think I'll join the ocean now. I hope this rainbow stuff helps!

 

[urbanj]

we use this at work

ES Compleatâ„¢

http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/pdfs/product_lit/americas_brochures/LT15070.pdf

we put it in everything from backhoes, excavators and tandem axle trucks to light and medium duty trucks and hybrid cars.......pretty much everything. I've never seen a cooling system related problem.

 

[Raid The Revenge]

Fleetguard!

Ha Ha Haaa! Told you! Told you! Ha ha HAAA!

You live in Vancouver? That's totally a BOAT approved coolant! I bet it works very well.

Nice going urbanj!

 

[urbanj]

Yeah I live in Vancouver and I work for the City of North Vancouver in fleet services so thats how I know this stuff is tried, tested and true. We actually only have a 7 year vehicle life cycle so after that I couldn't tell you how it is. But it meets or exceeds all the requirements for a number of heavy duty/severe service engine manufacturers so it has to be good enough.

 

[Hazardous006]

Maybe you guys can help me... I live here in tucson, AZ where temps can reach way over 105F. I was told by a service tech at a honda dealership where i bought my bike that Royal Purple's Purple Ice is a very good product to use in my bike for the temps we see? Comments???

 

[Doorag]

I haven't done it (I swear), but exactly what happens if you mix different types of coolant?