Accident scenario

[RJ2112]

This was posted up on another board I frequent. No spleens or anything. Bad situation, multiple riders injured. Narrow road, car overtakes slow rider in blind corner and causes an oncoming rider to go down, as well as swerving back into 'his' lane and taking out the rider he was passing.:spank:

Car Passes Motorcycles And Causes Two Crashes - Bikerpunks.com

I'd like to hear your thoughts on the obvious causes; and see if you reach the same secondary conclusions I did.

 

[Erci]

Awful

Obviously the car driver should be shot on scene, but realistically the riders probably saw him tailing them for a while. Doesn't matter what their speed was.. perhaps if they had pulled over and let him pass this wouldn't have happened.

 

[youngy]

Would have been nice to see some more footage - like the bit where the car driver gets beaten within an inch of his life.

Am I right in thinking double yellows mean do not cross? Like double whites over here.

Why the **** did the car driver feel the need to pass? Especially there? Was the scooter going that slow?

The rider would have been better slowing down and getting out of the way when the car passed him. If he didn't see the car passing him, he should have.

 

[RJ2112]

Would have been nice to see some more footage - like the bit where the car driver gets beaten within an inch of his life.......

.....The rider would have been better slowing down and getting out of the way when the car passed him. If he didn't see the car passing him, he should have.

Add to those thoughts, the oncoming rider stuffed it. If you look closely, the bike is sliding on it's side when it (and the rider) hit the car.

You can't control the situation after you have gone ballistic.... stay on the bike. Keep the rubber in contact with the ground for as long as possible. Look for an exit, not at the target.

The oncoming rider was in no way prepared for a car to appear in front of them. Between that, and not doing an 'inside-outside' late apex corner entry he increased the time he was 'blind' to what was coming his way.

It didn't look there were any shoulders on that road at all. Maybe 12" off the edge of the pavement, on lanes that look a bit more narrow than US 'standard'. The cliff face on the right shoulder certainly limited run off area on the right side..

If the rider being overtaken was aware of the type A driver behind them, it would have been EXTREMELY wise to let them pass at the first opportunity.:cheer:

Why didn't I see any brake lights on any of the bikes trailing the car, when he passed? WTF were those riders thinking was going to happen?

 

[rsw81]

Well, as much as the oncoming rider stuffed the turn as mentioned above, that was in reaction to the illegal pass and frankly blind-turned pass that the cage proceeded to do. Chances are that oncoming bike was well lined and leaned for that particular turn, and would have proceeded through safely had it not been for the two ton chunk of metal in his lane.

In my opinion, there is no excuse for what the driver of the car did. He not only endangered those oncoming through the turn, but then endangered all the cycles in the lane he was originally traveling in. Thankfully, the driver of scooter he was passing appears to be fine as he was on his feet shortly after. I wonder what happened to the oncoming rider... Anyone know?

Edit: I saw the oncoming rider at least sit up after the initial contact. Hope he's alright.

 

[mukulu]

Shocking video. It sends a chill up my spine. I hope no one was seriously injured. At least there were plenty of witnesses, and it was captured on video, too. Hope the f**ker driving the car, gets punished.

 

[The Toecutter]

The car driver would have caught a severe beating,had they not been an elderly person,in which case I would have to enlist another elderly person too deliver said severe beating to the car driver.... :spank:

 

[Popeye70]

The cager is the bad guy here. He/she should never have started the passing move at that place, and must bear all blame for the resulting damages.

The oncoming biker seems to have the correct line and angle of lean for that turn. His/her fail is to lay the bike down instead of keeping the rubber on the ground. Excessive braking, maybe? The bike seem to take the impact with the car, hopefully the driver was just thrown/pushed away from the bike as it hit the car.

The scooter? Completely innocent. Could maybe slowed down when the cager decided to pass and started his/her passing move, but honestly - who would have thought of that? Not me...

Am I the only one to see an extra pair of feet in front of the scooter after the crash? The scooter driver is up, but clearly there must be one more person on the ground, in front of the scooter? Were there two persons on the scooter?

 

[JAZZ-n-FZ6]

I was just about to say that there were 2 people on the scooter. I think it was the passenger that hopped up onto his feet and that the rider is the one who is still on the ground.

I completely agree that the cager was completely at fault, but I know when I am riding or driving a canyon/mtn. road I can't stand when people do not use turnouts. I personally do not mind when people drive/ride slow if that is where they feel safe. But they should be polite and use turnouts. I cannot say for sure the scotter was being a tool and not pulling over because for all I know the car and riders came up behind him one corner earlier and the scooter rider never had a chance to pull over.

 

[Motogiro]

The cager is the bad guy here. He/she should never have started the passing move at that place, and must bear all blame for the resulting damages.

The oncoming biker seems to have the correct line and angle of lean for that turn. His/her fail is to lay the bike down instead of keeping the rubber on the ground. Excessive braking, maybe? The bike seem to take the impact with the car, hopefully the driver was just thrown/pushed away from the bike as it hit the car.

The scooter? Completely innocent. Could maybe slowed down when the cager decided to pass and started his/her passing move, but honestly - who would have thought of that? Not me...

Am I the only one to see an extra pair of feet in front of the scooter after the crash? The scooter driver is up, but clearly there must be one more person on the ground, in front of the scooter? Were there two persons on the scooter?

I was just going to say, there is another person between/in front of the scooter and doesn't seem responsive and is probably injured. There were 2 people on the scooter.

I believe we are all responsible in our involvement in crashes. If we can see possible outs in a situation like this then we should learn and be able to execute. I'm not saying the others are not at obvious fault. The cager not only crossed the yellow line but did it while entering a turn which gave no distant visual in the oncoming lane. The oncoming bike had little oncoming visual and was surprised to have a car closing. If you think about it, if the oncoming bike is doing 50 MPH and the car is doing 50 MPH, the bike is closing on an object, while in a turn at 100 MPH. He's not closing on a static object at 50 MPH.
So it's not a track it's a road and has the possibility of oncoming traffic on a blind turn. Look at the angle of the bike and you can see he's at a decent clip. Could he take a blind turn a little slower, giving more reaction and maneuver time? Yes! That's the nature of throwing your leg over and twisting the throttle and I take responsibility for those possibilities and make the choice of how fast I ride a blind or open turn.
The scooter could have realized the possible scenario and prepared for the possibilities. Getting over and braking would have got them clear.
All the mechanics of riding are worthless without the mental and spiritual preparedness needed to come home safe. That's right! Spiritual! I mean what's that feeling we all know we crave? That indescribable yearn? For me that means seeing what I bring to a mishap and I believe that makes me a better rider.

There is nothing I can think of as a rider that would help anyone else as a brother/sister rider that could be of more help than to point to the personal responsibility we have to take for ourselves as riders. People at fault will be on every ride you take and that includes you. If you take each and every ride with that in mind and treat your ride as if a meteor might fall in the road you'll commit more energy to being a better rider and less to who's at fault. Broken bones and mortality could care less who's at fault.

Be a better rider! You know...."Feel the Force"

 

[motojoe122]

Just looking at both sides of the fence....Anyone think that maybe the riders following the car were a little too close to the car? Maybe not enough reaction time? Clearly the driver of the car made a poor choice in passing where he did, but where is the first kink in that chain of events that lead to the result?
Joe:thumbup:

 

[RJ2112]

I was just going to say, there is another person between/in front of the scooter and doesn't seem responsive and is probably injured. There were 2 people on the scooter.

I believe we are all responsible in our involvement in crashes. If we can see possible outs in a situation like this then we should learn and be able to execute. I'm not saying the others are not at obvious fault. The cager not only crossed the yellow line but did it while entering a turn which gave no distant visual in the oncoming lane. The oncoming bike had little oncoming visual and was surprised to have a car closing. If you think about it, if the oncoming bike is doing 50 MPH and the car is doing 50 MPH, the bike is closing on an object, while in a turn at 100 MPH. He's not closing on a static object at 50 MPH.
So it's not a track it's a road and has the possibility of oncoming traffic on a blind turn. Look at the angle of the bike and you can see he's at a decent clip. Could he take a blind turn a little slower, giving more reaction and maneuver time? Yes! That's the nature of throwing your leg over and twisting the throttle and I take responsibility for those possibilities and make the choice of how fast I ride a blind or open turn.
The scooter could have realized the possible scenario and prepared for the possibilities. Getting over and braking would have got them clear.
All the mechanics of riding are worthless without the mental and spiritual preparedness needed to come home safe. That's right! Spiritual! I mean what's that feeling we all know we crave? That indescribable yearn? For me that means seeing what I bring to a mishap and I believe that makes me a better rider.

There is nothing I can think of as a rider that would help anyone else as a brother/sister rider that could be of more help than to point to the personal responsibility we have to take for ourselves as riders. People at fault will be on every ride you take and that includes you. If you take each and every ride with that in mind and treat your ride as if a meteor might fall in the road you'll commit more energy to being a better rider and less to who's at fault. Broken bones and mortality could care less who's at fault.

Be a better rider! You know...."Feel the Force"

Exactly where I was going with this.

8/10ths, 9/10ths 10/10ths on the street is possible...... but ultimately stupid. If you don't leave yourself an out, you have nowhere to go when some Bozo closes the door on you.

There mere fact that we ride exposes us to the dangers inherent in riding. We lose any conflict with another moving vehicle. We are quite literally burning the candle at both ends, and hope to avoid the flames.

Practice, and situational awareness play a H-U-G-E part in riding. Any knucklehead can go fast. Most fast knuckleheads aren't, for very long.

"There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots. There are no old, bold pilots."

 

[RJ2112]

Well, as much as the oncoming rider stuffed the turn as mentioned above, that was in reaction to the illegal pass and frankly blind-turned pass that the cage proceeded to do. Chances are that oncoming bike was well lined and leaned for that particular turn, and would have proceeded through safely had it not been for the two ton chunk of metal in his lane.

In my opinion, there is no excuse for what the driver of the car did. He not only endangered those oncoming through the turn, but then endangered all the cycles in the lane he was originally traveling in. Thankfully, the driver of scooter he was passing appears to be fine as he was on his feet shortly after. I wonder what happened to the oncoming rider... Anyone know?

Edit: I saw the oncoming rider at least sit up after the initial contact. Hope he's alright.

I in no way absolve the driver for the pass that resulted in the likely serious injuries of the riders involved.

That's only one failure in at least three that I can see in that video.

1) Scooter failed to yield at some theoretical point before this.
2) Driver obviously a criminally impatient boob.
3) Oncoming rider too hot for conditions -- lack of sight line --had a good line otherwise.
4) Riders following car were way too close. Nobody hit their brakes when this started to unfold.

In thinking about it, the scenario plays out in my mind as the Scooter was noodling along on a 'racer' road. A Sunday driver, as you will. The car and the sport bikes behind Scooter were dicing it up and overtook the scooter.

Coupeboy decided to pass without good sight lines and caused injury to multiple parties.

In my thinking, the Scooter rider was in the wrong place, at the wrong time.

The car driver and the sport bikes dicing with him should take their behavior to the track, rather than an obviously heavily traveled twisty road.:spank:

 

[gpostarmy]

I believe most of the what ifs for the riders have been covered, and hiring elderly people to beat other elderly people for you LMAO.
View attachment 33322
he might be willing

Lets look at what rules may have been broke. The oncoming bikes speed was probable over that of the posted speed. He did not slide very far before he sat up, so I will wager not by much.

The more obvious rules that are broke, is the stupid !@#$ in the car. It does not matter if it was a bike taking that corner. It could have just as easily been a family in a minivan. Come on it was a double yellow(never cross) on a blind corner. The driver of this car could have killed a lot of people by disregarding the rules that even a new driver is well aware of.

IMHO the driver of the car is at fault in this situation. Could the riders have done something as well? Yes, but they were ridding withing the law, therefore share no fault other than needing to learn this lesson....

Ride as though no other vehicle on the road sees you or knows you are there. Prepare for the worst (constantly searching for an out), and hope for the best(maybe someday cars, cagers will realize they share the road with us)

 

[ozzieboy]

Q.....If the guy in the car didn't overtake over double lines on a blind corner would there have been an accident, let alone this video?

A.....Nope. Not likely.

Have to respectfully disagree with anyone sharing blame around.

I saw three flashes of brake lights from the bike in front of the camera. Any more and he probably would have tipped over from lack of speed. They were putting along in first gear more than likely, and engine braking alone will pull you up considerably.

Oncoming rider.... I don't know what speed zone it is so I won't comment on it except to say, that it was certainly not excessive for the turn, and if he hadn't grabbed a fistful of front brake he probably would have been able to squeeze through the gap between the car and the side of the road. I can sort of understand the reaction though. I don't know how many of you folks have faced the front end of an oncoming vehicle at close range, but it isn't pleasant (we get it a lot around here. Just ask Wolfman about the red Porsche that crossed the centre line through a turn in front of me, and then tried to overtake the car in front of him and got crossed up getting light and braking for the turn at the end of the zigzag that he was overtaking through, and ended up parked sideways across the twistiest road we've got just in front of Wolfman).

Over here I would guess that that would be an 80km/h zone, and the scooter was doing 50km/h-ish.

This sort of thing is why I think they need to keep push bikes out of the twisties, and certainly not allow them to ride two abreast. If they go slow, someone will eventually get impatient and overtake, and often in a bad spot (who wants to sit behind a dude looking at his lycra clad butt for 10 minutes while he struggles up a hill at 10km/h?).

This is a major reason why riding a bike is dangerous. You can't control who can have a set of car keys and petrol money. Only the gov't can do that, and they'll let anyone drive.

 

[novaks47]

Wow, what a moron, to say the least! He might has well tried to pass before a switchback! The oncoming bike had no chance. He was clearly leaned over, and had little to no time to do anything. He had what, a second or less? If anything, the fact that he fell off before the collision probably saved him from even greater injury. Even with all that aside, the car made the worst possible attempt to pass. Even if the head on collision hadn't occurred, he wouldn't have made it! He would've had to swerve back over into the proper lane, already in the corner, and would've probably lost it at that point, and right in front of the person he passing anyways. DUMB!

I commute on mountain roads, and I know where I can and can't pass. If I even suspect there might be oncoming traffic, or that I can't blast by the slow poke with time to spare, I just stay put! Usually you can get on someone's rear for a few seconds, back off, and then they'll pull over. If they're really oblivious, just give 'em a quick flash, and they'll move over. But you have to give them room, so that they feel safe braking and moving over. If you're right on their a**, they'll feel they can't safely move over. Also, I use passing as an absolute last resort, and even then, I prefer to pass on the slowest of them. If they're going 30-ish, oh well I'm stuck. If they're going 20mph, and braking for every corner, and not pulling over, then I'll dust 'em, conditions permitting of course. That cager should've just chilled, or flashed, and I'm sure the moto would've moved over. This was all 100% the cagers fault. It didn't even look like the rider was going all that slow! I can't get over how that car tried to pass where it did. Beyond retarded!!

 

[VEGASRIDER]

Is that an FZ6 directly in front of the camera vehicle?

 

[ozzieboy]

Is that an FZ6 directly in front of the camera vehicle?

Sure looked like it to me.:thumbup:

 

[ant_mb]

Does anyone see the scooter in front of the car on the first turn(beginning of the video)? I don't see it. Looks to me like he came up on the scooter and tried to pass right away.

 

[DefyInertia]

Awful

Obviously the car driver should be shot on scene, but realistically the riders probably saw him tailing them for a while. Doesn't matter what their speed was.. perhaps if they had pulled over and let him pass this wouldn't have happened.

+1 (EDIT - I don't take the above to be "sharing blame"....just an observation and soemthing to keep in mind when trying to keep yourself alive, car or cage).

what was that driver thinking???