35 Watt HID Ballast current = 4.0 Amps

[FinalImpact]

OK the title pretty much says everything I needed to say. On a non-bike project I have some 35 watt HID ballasts (Morimoto 3Five Ballasts HID Ballasts) which I may consider using on the bike. But with its limited charging ability of 300 watts I thought I'd start by measuring how much these ballasts draw. The current through a fluke 87-V meter is just over 4.0A at 12V. However, it does appear to drop as the voltage goes up! I did not measure the start up current as that would likely exceed the meters ability and damage it.

4.00A @ 12V
3.75A @ 13V

Sadly I didn't have an actual H4/H1 bulb here to measure the current once lit. But I suspect both are upwards of 8 Amps on start up.
Not apples to apples but 55W @ 13.5V = 4.07A

So, for future moders - there you go. Its on par with 55W Halogen bulbs and may save just a little on energy current wise with the battery situation. Plus you get a nice cut off!

PS - playing with TSX Acura projectors.... They sure have a nice pattern with a clean cut off. And these ballasts are so tiny! Pretty easy to fit on the bike I'd say!

Cliff, you might get a kick out of this: http://www.antony-anderson.com/Cruise/belt-hypo/app-1.pdf

JJD952 - Electrical

 

[FinalImpact]

Re: 35 Watt HID Ballast = 40watts!!! Current varies w/voltage!

Something I didn't say. Current was measured as drawn by the ballast. Also, when tearing it apart just now to work on other stuff I found a wire which was warm. It had a bad connection (bum gator). This test was done with bananas and alligators and compared to ABOVE, it matters!! Nothing beats a solid connection! So I redid the connections to eliminate the compromised electrical connection and the current demand dropped a full half amp while the Watts remained stable!!!

After doing the math on the load for a both conditions (13.5 and 11.5V) you can see the load on the electrical system is the same Watts when wired properly (far less variation). So, a set of these may in fact get us more light and allow use of "other accessories" should there be a need for them. So, if running two of these at 80 watts or 2 halogens at a 110 watts, well this could give you a little more leeway when playing in traffic with the fan on.

Anyway - call me green, I don't know if a Xenon HID D2S system is measuring Watts at the bulb or the ballast. I went after the ballast as that's what matters to us.

3.5A @ 11.5V (40.25 Watts). This is good news as I wasn't happy with the initial results. My own doings for being in a hurry.

This is more what I expected to see. I just wish the manufacture would have posted the specs.... NOTICE THE WATTAGE!! Mind you it runs down to 9.0v and up to 25V or something like that.

<3.0A @ 13.5Vdc = 40.5 Watts Also using a MAX function and at room temp, startup current was less than 6 Amps. Yes, I said I wouldn't but I wanted to know!

 

[FinalImpact]

Found an H1 bulb in the cages glove box so I had to know....

Using the same setup as above the mighty incandescent bulb is very hungry!!! And unlike the electronic hi-voltage counter part the more you give it the more it takes....

4.5A @ 11.5V (51.75 Watts)

4.8A @ 13.5V (64.8 Watts)

The bad news is; the FZ's Regulator Rectifier simply consumes all excess wattage making heat so it simply goes to waste if not used! :spank:

PS - I'm still seeing spots.... Bulb is bright w/out containment! lol

 

[Motogiro]

Found an H1 bulb in the cages glove box so I had to know....

Using the same setup as above the mighty incandescent bulb is very hungry!!! And unlike the electronic hi-voltage counter part the more you give it the more it takes....

4.5A @ 11.5V (51.75 Watts)

4.8A @ 13.5V (64.8 Watts)

The bad news is; the FZ's Regulator Rectifier simply consumes all excess wattage making heat so it simply goes to waste if not used! :spank:

PS - I'm still seeing spots.... Bulb is bright w/out containment! lol

Interesting.. I remember a thread a thread some years ago, here on this forum and there were regulators that were series type where they went open when the battery was at voltage. I might search for it later.
I think it was decided that the application of series type regulators were geared more toward race bikes and really didn't add much performance wise to street bikes where it would warrant then. Probably the design reason was more toward a weight saving set-up as apposed to an alternator designed like a car where the field would be controlled for regulation.
Still I agree that it might be worth looking at maybe a PWM set-up driving a pass transistor for a series type regulator which probably reduce some hysteresis and definitely reduce associated heating and load on components.

 

[FinalImpact]

Interesting.. I remember a thread a thread some years ago, here on this forum and there were regulators that were series type where they went open when the battery was at voltage. I might search for it later.
I think it was decided that the application of series type regulators were geared more toward race bikes and really didn't add much performance wise to street bikes where it would warrant then. Probably the design reason was more toward a weight saving set-up as apposed to an alternator designed like a car where the field would be controlled for regulation.
Still I agree that it might be worth looking at maybe a PWM set-up driving a pass transistor for a series type regulator which probably reduce some hysteresis and definitely reduce associated heating and load on components.

I know my Toyota limits the voltage at the head lights. Has some built in regulator circuit limits at 12.75V So I placed these Toshiba HIR bulbs in there! Great stuff, but no longer available. These by far put out more usable light than any thing else I ever tried and i tried a few. Thankfully never putting any of that blue sh$t in there. It allowed good output without modding the circuit to get battery voltage at the lamps...

View attachment 51418 View attachment 51419
HIR Headlights 9011 9012 bulbs

A little excerpt:
My own informal testing showed the GE spec figures to be conservative. I hooked up an Osram 9006 bulb to a fully charged battery on my bench. On my ancient light meter (a GE model from the 1950s -- it's marked in foot-candles but useful for showing relative light levels), I registered a light level of 20 at a distance of 18" from the bulb. The HIR 9012 bulb recorded a light intensity of 35! That's 75% brighter than stock at the same power draw of 55 watts. The comparison between a 9005 high beam and an HIR 9011 high beam was even more impressive, 30 versus 65 on the meter, for a 116% improvement over stock and again with the same wattage (65) as stock. To view some great comparison information, go online to the website listed at the bottom of this page.

Recent tests with several aftermarket bulbs had similar results. Two 9005 blue bulbs, one from a major manufacturer and one a no-name 100 watt unit, both registered 332 on the light meter, less than half the light of the 9011. In fact, the 9012 low beam bulbs were brighter than the aftermarket 9005 high beams! Those bulbs, by the way, came out of a neighbor's Lincoln Mark VIII. Even though his car is unique in that it comes stock with four 9005 hi-beams, he realized when he watched me do the bulb test that he had wasted his money on the other bulbs. The good news is that he now has the light he needs to allow safer driving.

These bulbs produce white light, rated at 3600 Kelvin color temp, slightly whiter than the 3250K stock halogen bulbs. They do not attempt to imitate the bluish appearance of HID (High Intensity Discharge, or Xenon) bulbs. The blue halo of original equipment HIDs comes from the high voltage arc of energy between electrodes, which emits a minor amount of long-wave UV light. Putting blue coating on a regular bulb actually reduces light output.

 

[Motogiro]

I know my Toyota limits the voltage at the head lights. Has some built in regulator circuit limits at 12.75V So I placed these Toshiba HIR bulbs in there!
View attachment 51418 View attachment 51419
HIR Headlights 9011 9012 bulbs

Those HIR lamps envelopes look like some old Thomas Edison lamps! Lol!

I've always been amazed at how marketing the efficiency of a device was expressed in wattage or amperes and not the measurement of work the actual device is related to. Great job on the testing you've done!
LEDs are finally coming into there place as usable headlights and although still pricey they will be light weight with no ballast transformer supply. Trick....come up with aftermarket headlamp LED replacement. Probably an array of some type.

 

[FinalImpact]

Mocking my lightbulbs..... :spank::spank::spank:


So, this is abstract - I spend ALLOT of hours driving and an observation I've had for years is that Toyota's typically have ALL OF THE LIGHTS FUNCTIONING compared to lots of other vehicles. VW specifically - even new ones seem to loose lights at a high rate.

This thread and observation now has me curious if ALL LIGHTING ON SOME Yot's is regulated below battery voltage to say, keep lamps at the specified rating of 55W so they last??? I checked the headlight but I never checked the running lights. I bet the whole lighting circuit is regulated and I also bet the cars that are running 13.7V+ to the lamps are the ones with lots burned out bulbs.

POINT: so many of our specs are based upon a 12V system which is typically actually at 13.5V+ volts... Something to think about.

 

[Motogiro]

We have a 2010 RAV4 and the running lights are the high beams. When the engine is on and the car is put in gear the high beam lights come on but are dropped in brightness. When you turn on the headlamps the high beam lamps turn off. When you turn on the high beam the same lamps that are the running lamp/ high beam go full brightness. A great idea! The regulation is probably Pulse Width Modulation which would be more efficient power usage and easier component design. PWM is not that great with LEDs because of the flickering effect you get. LEDs turn on and off very quickly so the PWM frequency shows up as flickering. I'm sure you could play with capacitors and waveform to eliminate that LED flicker but with the comparatively slower response of an incandescent filament a pretty simple PWM circuit can be done as what I think they've done on the RAV 4 high beam/running lights.
Maybe this is the answer for the idea of reducing current usage on the FZ6 headlamps to conserve power?

 

[FIZZER6]

Great job on verifying what us HID guys have known all along "35W HID pulls less amps than 55W hallogens and yet is 2-3X brighter". Thanks for confirming this.

One question I have:

On the FZ6 what is the battery voltage at idle v. higher RPMS? Does it rise? Does the headlight circuit have the same fluctuation?

I know most HID ballasts can handle spikes in voltage to some extent.

 

[FinalImpact]

On mine I've seen it as high as 13.7 and as low as 12.2V but never measured the lamps directly. So can't speak to loss between the source and the destination or actual lamp voltage. Sorry.

Also, I seldom ride at night so LEDs that scatter light every direction but forward would work for me (just want to be seen by others). I just happened to have the opportunity to do a little testing and thought I'd share.

 

[FinalImpact]

Modern era 2013 - Thomas' work has its place....
Todays people can use the electric pen to pierce the ear lob cartilage and then mount the festive little "NEW YEARS EVE" lamp in the fresh hole!!!
That guy was Genius!!!