Starts and Dies. HELP!

[FinalImpact]

Rep points for "potting soil" LMAO.... Sorry tho! Looks like you'll know the truth soon!

Be careful with the gas....

 

[Motogiro]

Lets call it Working under Pressure!! :thumbup:
- Is it fair to say in your example that lets say, 15,000 PSI may have been applied, but due to decreased density of the media (air) the larger pistons did not move with the same force that was applied because the media compressed! But it still has 15,000 PSI? YES??!?! But the "intended" work was not done when the air molecules got cozy! Enlighten me!

I've never done the math on brake pressure. It has all those lever angles and multipliers...

Maybe I read this from another post, but I coulda swore I saw something about it shoots gas out. A plugged screen doesn't do that well. Most behave more like a trickle fountain if the inlet is occluded.

What I am saying is that if we use the example of 1,500 psi in a line with a fluid when we apply the mechanical pressure we expect the designed pressure to be produced. If air is introduced in the line the fluid pressure psi for the same amount or equal mechanical pressure will be under the 1,500 psi. It does not reach the designed pressure and will be less psi. the more air the less intended pressure.

My post was to say that there might be less of a psi reading if there was air in the output side of the pump. If the inlet is partially occluded, passing some fluid and the pump itself is in good working order we should see the intended psi (without air) because we are not using any volume.

To summarize: The test I was referring to was for pressure coming from the pump. I would just insure there is no air in the fuel line that the gauge is on. Yes, If completely blocked on the pump inlet the output psi will be low.

 

[FinalImpact]

Is it me or is the tank not really that rusty on the surface!?? As if that sludge or "soil like substance" **may have been** pumped in there??
- And if not mistaken, you have a full head of water in there too! :don'tknow::don'tknow: There looks to be separation of fluids....

 

[BloodsweatnGears]

No your right not much rust compared to what Im used to working on... here are some pictures of current projects. . Like I said earlier Im in my 20s but stuck wrenching in the 70's and eary 80s.

My daily. Kz650 with 750 jugs and pistons. Decked snd Ported 650 head for a healthy compression bump. gpz hot cams.. soon to be kick only to save some lbs. Just gotta wait on my starter plug. Stretched 12 lowered 3. Hardtailed. Shes my dirty surprise...

For a pretty picture. My wifes motor kz400 going into a custom cafe racer.

Rebuilding an 81 xs750 right now as well for a friend.... gotta finnish this fz before I pick up another project
its a beer and vape break.. figured I would shoot out some pics

 

[BloodsweatnGears]

Is it me or is the tank not really that rusty on the surface!?? As if that sludge or "soil like substance" **may have been** pumped in there??
- And if not mistaken, you have a full head of water in there too! :don'tknow::don'tknow: There looks to be separation of fluids....

After flushing the tank. cleaning and re assembly of the pump and sending unit and fpr she still reads the same pressure and thats making sure the system was purged of air Blah

Replacement of frp next? Possible I guess my tester or method is bad...

 

[FinalImpact]

Did you remove the PR and push it off is seat? All it takes is a tiny fleck of crap to keep it from sealing and the pressure just leaks.... Wipe seal with Q-tip if need be.

You seem to be on it, so you see the the pump need not be in the tank to do its work. BUT I WOULD NOT USE GAS FOR TESTING!!! You could in fact use water.

Plug the outlet of the PR and and if there are no other obstructions in the path of the pumps inlet to Outlet, it should build 36PSI.

Another option is to remove the pump from the housing and attach gauge directly to it. With the air out of the pumps body, it should stall around 60 PSI or higher.

Was that in fact water in the tank??

 

[FinalImpact]

What I am saying is that if we use the example of 1,500 psi in a line with a fluid when we apply the mechanical pressure we expect the designed pressure to be produced. If air is introduced in the line the fluid pressure psi for the same amount or equal mechanical pressure will be under the 1,500 psi. It does not reach the designed pressure and will be less psi. the more air the less intended pressure.

My post was to say that there might be less of a psi reading if there was air in the output side of the pump. If the inlet is partially occluded, passing some fluid and the pump itself is in good working order we should see the intended psi (without air) because we are not using any volume.

To summarize: The test I was referring to was for pressure coming from the pump. I would just insure there is no air in the fuel line that the gauge is on. Yes, If completely blocked on the pump inlet the output psi will be low.

We need a discussion thread so as not to taint OP's objective... I'm on the fence. As in, we could both be correct. I would like to know the difference.

Uncompromisable Fluids are not gasses. So this may be above my pay grade! Blah

 

[BloodsweatnGears]

Did you remove the PR and push it off is seat? All it takes is a tiny fleck of crap to keep it from sealing and the pressure just leaks.... Wipe seal with Q-tip if need be.

You seem to be on it, so you see the the pump need not be in the tank to do its work. BUT I WOULD NOT USE GAS FOR TESTING!!! You could in fact use water.

Plug the outlet of the PR and and if there are no other obstructions in the path of the pumps inlet to Outlet, it should build 36PSI.

Another option is to remove the pump from the housing and attach gauge directly to it. With the air out of the pumps body, it should stall around 60 PSI or higher.

Was that in fact water in the tank??

No water it was layers per say of sediment and dirt.
ill have it back all apart tonight. i washed the pr and blew it out multiple times at well above 40 psi..it was opening. ill test the pump directly when im off

 

[FinalImpact]

Obviously your seeing all the clips that allow the Assembly to come apart, were you able to clean the pickup screen and get it looking ok? Blow out all the passages in the pumps housing?

Twice a year i run Chevron Techron fuel cleaner through, mainly before winter to get any moisture out. Not knowing what that is, you deff need some kind of cleaner. Just dont exceed the recommended dosage as some derate the octane and cause detonation plus its hard on some of the materials. Perhaps a lifetime supply if foul play is suspect? :shakehead:

Whats your Best guess, did you buy it this way?

 

[BloodsweatnGears]

Obviously your seeing all the clips that allow the Assembly to come apart, were you able to clean the pickup screen and get it looking ok? Blow out all the passages in the pumps housing?

Twice a year i run Chevron Techron fuel cleaner through, mainly before winter to get any moisture out. Not knowing what that is, you deff need some kind of cleaner. Just dont exceed the recommended dosage as some derate the octane and cause detonation plus its hard on some of the materials. Perhaps a lifetime supply if foul play is suspect? :shakehead:

Whats your Best guess, did you buy it this way?

yeah everything in the fuel pump look clean after I finish cleaning it out. yes I purchased it this way in this condition the gas cap was mangled the ignition was mangled no title but after checking with a few of my police friends the bike came up clear. live in checked out not only look up a national database is not stolen and I know the previous owner has had it for about four years three of which were not in running condition$100 I figured I couldn't go wrong

 

[FinalImpact]

No water it was layers per say of sediment and dirt.
ill have it back all apart tonight. i washed the pr and blew it out multiple times at well above 40 psi..it was opening. ill test the pump directly when im off

Did it hold to 30psi? 35?
Thats what you need to know. If it holds to 35, that could point at the pumps internal clearances opening and although it runs, it cant build pressure.
Abrasive grit has a way of changing things. Extrude a hone comes to mind...

 

[BloodsweatnGears]

I didn't have a good way to test that just a at 35 psi. I'm going to test the fuel pump alone tonight. I may just order a whole new fuel pump and FPR offline they only seem to be about $40.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

As posted much earlier, once you get that pump hopefully working up to pressure (or a new one), I would be flushing the fuel rail, etc, once you get that far.

Before you try to crank to start..

 

[BloodsweatnGears]

I appreciate everyones help! Im on father duty today so once my minime goes down for a nap I can slip out to the garage to pull the fuel pump again. thinking a small bucket of water should allow me test just the pump externally from the housing and see how shes doing.

 

[FinalImpact]

I didn't have a good way to test that just a at 35 psi. I'm going to test the fuel pump alone tonight. I may just order a whole new fuel pump and FPR offline they only seem to be about $40.

If you have a compressor and small tank, just set air compressor P/R to 35 and verify with your gauge. Or use a cage tire and wip ~ 30 to 40 psi pending on vehicle...

I see this could go either way. As in cleaning seat of P/R or pump is bad from pumping abrasives. As noted, the pumps are cheap compared to buying a whole new assembly. Although im not sure where you found other hardware except the generic sock/pickup.

Good luck!

 

[FinalImpact]

I appreciate everyones help! Im on father duty today so once my minime goes down for a nap I can slip out to the garage to pull the fuel pump again. thinking a small bucket of water should allow me test just the pump externally from the housing and see how shes doing.

So its current location is in the tank? Does that mean you had fresh gas in it and tried to fire engine?
Ya, a bucket and nonflammable liquid should be fine for short test runs. Drag a battery over and connect. :thumbup:

 

[BloodsweatnGears]

So its current location is in the tank? Does that mean you had fresh gas in it and tried to fire engine?
Ya, a bucket and nonflammable liquid should be fine for short test runs. Drag a battery over and connect. :thumbup:

Yeah. Re assembled. Fresh gas. Turns over but wont fire up. same deal. Like no fuel is getting through somewhere. Gonna pull the take. pull the whole sending unit and submerge it in a tub of water. I will keep it connected to the bike electronically and run it that way.

 

[BloodsweatnGears]

As posted much earlier, once you get that pump hopefully working up to pressure (or a new one), I would be flushing the fuel rail, etc, once you get that far.

Before you try to crank to start..

Fuel pump alone was way over 70psi and held above 60...
This was using stock wiring as well hoping to eliminate a voltage drop issue ( if one was present and keeping the pump from running correctly)

on to the fpr again

 

[BloodsweatnGears]

Damn fpr wont even hold 20 psi...

Just to confirm...at 20 psi no air should be being released from the fpr correct?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Pressure should be building up to 36PSI or so.

Seems the pump is easily getting you there(a good thing), and the regulator is dropping the pressure so the injectors don't have the pressure to make it into the cylinder(s).

From post #26;

Did you remove the PR and push it off is seat? All it takes is a tiny fleck of crap to keep it from sealing and the pressure just leaks.... Wipe seal with Q-tip if need be.