Ignition Switch wires cut, now bike wont start.

[seanalan329]

Someone cut the the wires to my ignition switch. I don't know if they were trying to steal it or just being dicks because they didn't do anything else but cut them. At the time I had my headlight hanging by the connection (not bolted on due to mount issue) so they couldn't have driven it. Anyway, I connected the wires back together and checked all the fuses but the bike wont start. Everything gets power and fuel primes but no turn over. The only thing that's different is my headlight or lack there of. Could it be a continuity issue without the headlight?

 

[Carlos840]

Do american bikes come stock with an immobiliser like they do in the EU?

Not sure how it works, but maybe cutting the wires activated it.

 

[seanalan329]

Do american bikes come stock with an immobiliser like they do in the EU?

Not sure how it works, but maybe cutting the wires activated it.

From what I've read, I don't think they do. And I don't have an aftermarket alarm.

 

[Druff]

Will it bump start?

 

[seanalan329]

Will it bump start?

I just tried and no. It's tries to start but I couldn't get it all the way. Normally I can get it on the first bump.

 

[FinalImpact]

Need to consider what happens when apes do asinine things. When the power lead gets cut the act of cutting the wires can conduct energy from the ENERGIZED POWER through lead through the tool to places it doesn't belong with levels of current that damages them. So it is a possibility something else is damaged.

Were any of the fuses blown? The fact that is primes is good start, did you try lifting the kick stand, rocking the kill switch, Placing it into Neutral?

What did you use to make the repairs? Twist and tape, solder, crimps??

Do you own a test lamp or DMM?

 

[seanalan329]

[withE=FinalImpact;573392]Need to consider what happens when apes do asinine things. When the power lead gets cut the act of cutting the wires can conduct energy from the ENERGIZED POWER through lead through the tool to places it doesn't belong with levels of current that damages them. So it is a possibility something else is damaged.

Were any of the fuses blown? The fact that is primes is good start, did you try lifting the kick stand, rocking the kill switch, Placing it into Neutral?

What did you use to make the repairs? Twist and tape, solder, crimps??

Do you own a test lamp or DMM?[/QUOTE]

I checked all the fuses, but will check them again tomorrow. My only kill switch that I have really is the clutch. I had to bypass the bar kill switch and the kick stand safety switch. It didn't start in neutral previously.

I crimped the wires together with heat shrink crimps.

I do have a DMM, what can I check with that?

 

[FinalImpact]

Need to consider what happens when apes do asinine things. When the power lead gets cut the act of cutting the wires can conduct energy from the ENERGIZED POWER through lead through the tool to places it doesn't belong with levels of current that damages them. So it is a possibility something else is damaged.

Were any of the fuses blown? The fact that is primes is good start, did you try lifting the kick stand, rocking the kill switch, Placing it into Neutral?

What did you use to make the repairs? Twist and tape, solder, crimps??

Do you own a test lamp or DMM?

I checked all the fuses, but will check them again tomorrow. My only kill switch that I have really is the clutch. I had to bypass the bar kill switch and the kick stand safety switch. It didn't start in neutral previously.

I crimped the wires together with heat shrink crimps.

I do have a DMM, what can I check with that?

When you found it; were ANY OF THE FUSES BLOWN? If so, which ones?

 

[seanalan329]

When you found it; were ANY OF THE FUSES BLOWN? If so, which ones?

I didn't see any blown fuses but I just looked at them real quick, and didn't take them all out. But tomorrow I'm going to double check every single one.

 

[Motogiro]

Here's a quote from another issue that could be related to the bike not turning over. This case involved a lightning strike but shorting the ignition assembly can also blow the starter cutout relay assembly.

The starter/cutout relay assembly incorporates 2 relays. Depending on whether the bike is in neutral or the side stand is down or the clutch is pulled in etc. form logic through diodes and input to the ECU that controls whether the bike will start or the engine will shut down.

 

[seanalan329]

I'll check the cutoff relay assembly later today. I replaced it last year but just as a refresher how do I check it with the DMM?

 

[Motogiro]

I'll check the cutoff relay assembly later today. I replaced it last year but just as a refresher how do I check it with the DMM?

I don't have any info on checking it with a DVM but I believe there must be a series of tests for it because the member that had a lightning strike on his bike had tested his and it was bad. He had a Haynes service manual that had the test sequence and data.

I haven't seen the test in the Yamaha service manual.

I'm searching around....

http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-electrical/51907-starter-cut-off-relay.html

 

[FinalImpact]

I don't have any info on checking it with a DVM but I believe there must be a series of tests for it because the member that had a lightning strike on his bike had tested his and it was bad. He had a Haynes service manual that had the test sequence and data.

I haven't seen the test in the Yamaha service manual.

I'm searching around....

http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-electrical/51907-starter-cut-off-relay.html

There is step by step in the OEM FSM to check its sanity and basic behavior.

Can you elaborate on the "by-pass" of what switches and how long ago this was done. Be CAREFUL, should you let another ride that bike, it could end up on the ground from a simple mistake of being in gear and pushing the button.

Do you have an FSM?

 

[seanalan329]

There is step by step in the OEM FSM to check its sanity and basic behavior.

Can you elaborate on the "by-pass" of what switches and how long ago this was done. Be CAREFUL, should you let another ride that bike, it could end up on the ground from a simple mistake of being in gear and pushing the button.

Do you have an FSM?

I have a digital manual somewhere. I think that's how I learned to test my last replaced cutoff relay.

I snapped the handlebar kill switch wire once when I was taking it off and didn't have a solder to fix it, so I rigged it to be on. Then last July, when my cutoff relay went out the first time, I was trying to diagnose the problem and took off my side stand switch to clean it and lost the spring inside. So I just wire that together also.

I thought my clutch switch was going out too but the spring in that was stuck. I cleaned that up about a month ago and it's still good.

 

[Motogiro]

There is step by step in the OEM FSM to check its sanity and basic behavior.

Can you elaborate on the "by-pass" of what switches and how long ago this was done. Be CAREFUL, should you let another ride that bike, it could end up on the ground from a simple mistake of being in gear and pushing the button.

Do you have an FSM?

Didn't see the FSM test and was prolly perusing it to quickly. I was looking for a Haynes manual I agree on being careful as to doing by passing. I would just do bypassing to trouble shoot and not as a regular fix.

It would be interesting to find out what states would keep the ECU happy so that in the future we can better assess if it is the Starter interrupt/cutout relay assembly.

I will look at the schematics this afternoon and see what states we might develop for the ECU to start and run the bike to help people trouble shoot in the future.

 

[FinalImpact]

Didn't see the FSM test and was prolly perusing it to quickly. I was looking for a Haynes manual I agree on being careful as to doing by passing. I would just do bypassing to trouble shoot and not as a regular fix.

It would be interesting to find out what states would keep the ECU happy so that in the future we can better assess if it is the Starter interrupt/cutout relay assembly.

I will look at the schematics this afternoon and see what states we might develop for the ECU to start and run the bike to help people trouble shoot in the future.

Hmm.. .. .. Apparently someone was ah naughty back in the day. This pretty much covers what you need to know for the exception of wire colors.... http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-electrical/46547-starter-lock-out-trouble-shooting.html

 

[Motogiro]

I have a digital manual somewhere. I think that's how I learned to test my last replaced cutoff relay.

I snapped the handlebar kill switch wire once when I was taking it off and didn't have a solder to fix it, so I rigged it to be on. Then last July, when my cutoff relay went out the first time, I was trying to diagnose the problem and took off my side stand switch to clean it and lost the spring inside. So I just wire that together also.

I thought my clutch switch was going out too but the spring in that was stuck. I cleaned that up about a month ago and it's still good.

On your safety switches. I would go through your repaired connections and make sure they're all still good. If you are hearing the fuel pump then the part of starter cutout assembly that controls the fuel pump is active.

Here's a quick test you can do to see if the starter interrupt is not allowing the starter to run. Make sure the bike is in neutral and don't just rely on the neutral light. Remember the neutral indicator light gets it's path through the starter interrupt/cutout relay assembly which you suspect as faulty. So at this point don't trust it. Roll the bike to make sure it's in neutral!!


Lift the tank and on top of the battery is the starter relay. That relay has a blue with a white tracer wire. Get a jumper. You will be momentarily running a jumper from the blue with white tracer wire to ground. You can use the negative battery lead or any screw on the frame that will conduct. Bike in neutral! Turn the key to on. You should hear the fuel pump prime. Momentarily ground the blue with white tracer wire. If the bike starts you know the starter interrupt/ cutout relay assembly is probably the culprit but remember you've done some bypassing so check and repair those bypasses first to rule them out before buying a new starter interrupt/cutout unit. If it doesn't start you may have a bad starter relay or even a problem with the starter or the ECU is not giving voltage to the starter relay coil. Turn the key on and check for 12 VDC at the red with white tracer wire on the starter relay on top of the battery. Let us know.

 

[seanalan329]

On your safety switches. I would go through your repaired connections and make sure they're all still good. If you are hearing the fuel pump then the part of starter cutout assembly that controls the fuel pump is active.

Here's a quick test you can do to see if the starter interrupt is not allowing the starter to run. Make sure the bike is in neutral and don't just rely on the neutral light. Remember the neutral indicator light gets it's path through the starter interrupt/cutout relay assembly which you suspect as faulty. So at this point don't trust it. Roll the bike to make sure it's in neutral!!


Lift the tank and on top of the battery is the starter relay. That relay has a blue with a white tracer wire. Get a jumper. You will be momentarily running a jumper from the blue with white tracer wire to ground. You can use the negative battery lead or any screw on the frame that will conduct. Bike in neutral! Turn the key to on. You should hear the fuel pump prime. Momentarily ground the blue with white tracer wire. If the bike starts you know the starter interrupt/ cutout relay assembly is probably the culprit but remember you've done some bypassing so check and repair those bypasses first to rule them out before buying a new starter interrupt/cutout unit. If it doesn't start you may have a bad starter relay or even a problem with the starter or the ECU is not giving voltage to the starter relay coil. Turn the key on and check for 12 VDC at the red with white tracer wire on the starter relay on top of the battery. Let us know.

Thanks, sounds easy enough. I didn't have a chance to do much today, and I might not tomorrow but I'll let you know what happens. I did, however, test the relay with a DMM per the service manual, and I think it is bad. I'm gonna try your test to be sure.

Also, I do not get the neutral light indication. Just another thing on my list of repairs.

 

[Motogiro]

Thanks, sounds easy enough. I didn't have a chance to do much today, and I might not tomorrow but I'll let you know what happens. I did, however, test the relay with a DMM per the service manual, and I think it is bad. I'm gonna try your test to be sure.

Also, I do not get the neutral light indication. Just another thing on my list of repairs.

The neutral indicator light has to go through a diode in the starter interrupt/cutout relay assembly. If the neutral light was working and is now not working the diode could be open because it got toasted or the neutral switch is not working. Probably the diode.

 

[seanalan329]

The neutral indicator light has to go through a diode in the starter interrupt/cutout relay assembly. If the neutral light was working and is now not working the diode could be open because it got toasted or the neutral switch is not working. Probably the diode.

It wasn't working before.