Bike shop should be ashamed

[Ssky0078]

It's all relative.

How could the FZ6 NOT scare someone coming from a smaller, lighter, lower, and much less powerful bike? The first time I went WOT on my Ninja 250 after buying it, it was surprisingly quick and I was not expecting it. Felt very fast to me. When I first got on the FZ6 for a test drive after riding my 250 for a year, the height, weight, and power greatly intimidated me. It pulled SO hard when I opened up the throttle in first gear. It was exhilarating, but definitely scary. If someone got on an FZ6 right after the MSF and just gunned it (underestimating the power), they could EASILY lose control and scare the living crap out of themselves at best, hit a tree or car at worst. And compared to the GSXR 750, the FZ6 is tame. Now, this is coming from a 21 year old guy. So of course I'm gonna go WOT right after buying a new vehicle just to see what it can do.

I did take the MSF and 2 weeks later had my Fz6 and launched it 0-60 (redline is 65 btw) from a stop sign in the first 5 miles. So, I thought it was a rush, but after about the 3rd stop sign doing that I felt like it was easily under control. Then I worked on hitting second gear smooth as silk.

I guess in regard to this thread my whole point is being a male rider with a tendency to learn and push the limits in anything I do, I will approach riding a new bike different than a young female, new rider. Let's hope the OP's coworker is smart and is patient and takes her time before getting crazy with it. Maybe if the OP goes and helps her pick out gear.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

How could the Fz6 scare you? The only time the Fz6 scared me was when I slid on the gravel and crashed.

Get an FZ1, that's scary, and so much fun.

For a new rider, a bike (FZ6) that WILL POWER WHEELIE on its own should scare/catch their attention..

Heck you crashed your FZ6 how many times? Then moved up to a FZ1 right away? No comment...

Having owned a 145 HP FJR, that will do power wheelie at 4K RPM in 1st and 2nd gear, more so two up, do 140 MPH also two up, EASILY, I'm familiar with high end HP bikes. I also owned a Kwasaki ZRX 1100. I also rode/worked on my friends Suzuki B-King (Hyabusa 1300 engine, geared down) years ago (2008) for a week and that bike scared me. A machine that will wheelie at 70 MPH will catch your attention.

That being said, by choice, I only own my used FZ6. I contemplated a B-King but knew I would either loose my license or get killed. There's no doubt in my mind it would smoke an FZ1, period...

The FZ6 gets great mileage (its almost $4.00 a gallon here) vs the FZ1 (I looked at a 2013, FZ1 two weeks ago) but at 27 MPG, 5 valves per cylinder (a bit more maintainance) ah, no thank you... I'm not replacing rear tires every 4,000 miles either (save your $, you will be)...

I'd also put the FZ6 against the FZ1 in the twisties as it is lighter and has a higher RPM range than the FZ1, for the experianced rider that can use it. In a straight line, of course, the FZ1 will toast it..

The FZ6, IMO, is a great all around bike, even for the experianced rider. It'll do three digit speeds but you have to work at it some, unlike the B-King, FJR and FZ1 and will NOT get you into trouble nearly as quick(literally).

To each his own, but I think your preaching to the wrong crowd, especially the newer guys..

:Sport:

 

[FZ09Bandit]

I probably put 20 miles on my bros 250 before the fz6.... Only time I disrespected it was on wet grass like a jackass. Guess what? It bit me LOL

 

[Ssky0078]

It's all relative.

It most definitely isn't a great starter bike IMO. This based partly on the fact that you crashed it within two weeks, but mostly because of its weight, height, and 98 HP...

A "starter" bike really shouldn't have more than 50 HP at most, and be lower, lighter, and easier to handle for someone who is unaccustomed to motorcycles.

Probably only some of the really experienced guys like VegasRider wouldn't have crashed where I did. I hit some pebble/gravel that you can slide across like sliding on ice. After the fact talking with people and telling them where I went down, they were like 'oh yeah, I had a buddy launch his bike over the cliff there' etc. etc (I think it was 3 different people had seen bikes go over the cliff there, like 20% of the sample population I talked to). It's evidently a known crappy spot, much like that corner from rnickey mouse videos.

The height, weight thing is all relative. I'm 6'4" and 245. I sat on some 250 ninja and CBR250R's. I felt like a giant and couldn't comfortably ride for any period of time on them. The Fz6 was the closest thing to a starter bike that I fit on, even then I realized after a short time that the ergo's were not for me. The Fz1 ergo's are so much better.

I think that's why I was bringing up the Fz6r, they cut the hp down to what 67 or something like that. And hp is all relative to the weight of the bike and rider.

For a new rider, a bike (FZ6) that WILL POWER WHEELIE on its own should scare/catch their attention..

Heck you crashed your FZ6 how many times? Then moved up to a FZ1 right away? No comment...

The FZ6, IMO, is a great all around bike, even for the experianced rider. It'll do three digit speeds but you have to work at it some, unlike the B-King, FJR and FZ1 and will NOT get you into trouble nearly as quick(literally).

To each his own, but I think your preaching to the wrong crowd, especially the newer guys..

:Sport:

I think I am preaching to the wrong crowd. But the message is simple, a rider, and especially a good one should be able to get on any bike then be able to ride. If a person is a new rider, there is no set amount of time, cc, mileage or challenge of roads ridden before they become a good rider. If they are smart and patient they should be able to take any bike and work their way up. Taking the advanced MSF courses will help as well as riding with better riders who will help you out. The main difference as you point out is how forgiving the learning curve will be on a 250 vs 600 vs 1000.

I crashed the Fz6 1 time and had totalled it out, then crashed the Fz1 but wanted to keep it so I did the repairs myself. I can speak from experience that the time to react is at least cut in half on the Fz1 compared to the Fz6. But I can also say from experience that it is all dependent on the operator. When I crashed my Fz1 I was riding beyond my ability on new tires that had not been scrubbed in and a suspension setup that was all jacked up. I learned a hard lesson there but I still was smart enough to keep it within reason and not kill myself.

BTW I wish I could power wheelie, I think I may be too fat or just not know what the hell I'm doing. I can only get the front wheel up slightly on hard acceleration and have only intentionally wheelied once messing around. I really had to compress the forks and get them to bounce me up to get off the ground. My Fz6 I never felt the wheel leave the ground. I even tried to wheelie it a few times and nothing.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

As I'm sure you most likely know, the results of too much throttle and too fast a clutch will give much DIFFERENT results between a 250cc and 1000cc bike.

The 250 likely will not wheelie and get out of hand NO WHERE NEAR what 1,000cc 130+ HP bike will.

Can you eventually learn to ride it safely, Of course!.

However, in real life, it takes most folks a bit of time to get used to riding by itself... I'd rather crash/tip over a $1,000 250 cc bike, or a 600 before, especially being a new rider, getting on a 1000cc superbike. Its way too easy to get hurt, very, very fast (which is what this thread is all about).

I agree totally, with experiance, you learn the secrets, ie: expect gravel/dirt on the road in a blind corner, be prepared to stand the bike up in that loose gravel, etc to survive unscathed....

Once again, its easier to do for a newbie on a smaller, lighter bike...

Just as a side note, I do weigh about 200 lbs and my bike (stock gearing) will, everytime (traction permitting) power wheelie, no clutching either at about 8,000 RPM, first and second gear.

A new guy, learning on an FZ600 can/should get rattled when it happens the first time (weight/size, road condtions permitting). I'm sure the FZ1 will power wheelie much easier than the FZ6.

Point being, when someones ready to move up to a larger bike, thats fine, its their decision and their likely ready to move up.

In a lot of the states (Florida included), once you passed your MC course, you can ride ANY bike you like.


:thumbup:

 

[PosterFZ6]

As I'm sure you most likely know, the results of too much throttle and too fast a clutch will give much DIFFERENT results between a 250cc and 1000cc bike.

The 250 likely will not wheelie and get out of hand NO WHERE NEAR what 1,000cc 130+ HP bike will.

Can you eventually learn to ride it safely, Of course!.

However, in real life, it takes most folks a bit of time to get used to riding by itself... I'd rather crash/tip over a $1,000 250 cc bike, or a 600 before, especially being a new rider, getting on a 1000cc superbike. Its way too easy to get hurt, very, very fast (which is what this thread is all about).

I agree totally, with experiance, you learn the secrets, ie: expect gravel/dirt on the road in a blind corner, be prepared to stand the bike up in that loose gravel, etc to survive unscathed....

Once again, its easier to do for a newbie on a smaller, lighter bike...

Just as a side note, I do weigh about 200 lbs and my bike (stock gearing) will, everytime (traction permitting) power wheelie, no clutching either at about 8,000 RPM, first and second gear.

A new guy, learning on an FZ600 can/should get rattled when it happens the first time (weight/size, road condtions permitting). I'm sure the FZ1 will power wheelie much easier than the FZ6.

Point being, when someones ready to move up to a larger bike, thats fine, its their decision and their likely ready to move up.

In a lot of the states (Florida included), once you passed your MC course, you can ride ANY bike you like.


:thumbup:

I can testify to this.

My brother came for a leave from the army for the Christmas break.

So I let him ride my Kawi Concourse (1400cc) around the town.

So I am riding on my FZ6 and he is on my Concours and we are waiting at the stop light. Next thing I know he lifts the front wheel of the Connie like 3ft off the ground and proceeds to power wheelie like that for good couple of seconds.

I am watching whilst being horrified wtf he is doing.

Of course he didn't it on purpose but he was so used to his old 600cc Bandit that he had no freaking clue that the Connie is so powerful with a slight twist of the throttle.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I can testify to this.

My brother came for a leave from the army for the Christmas break.

So I let him ride my Kawi Concourse (1400cc) around the town.

So I am riding on my FZ6 and he is on my Concours and we are waiting at the stop light. Next thing I know he lifts the front wheel of the Connie like 3ft off the ground and proceeds to power wheelie like that for good couple of seconds.

I am watching whilst being horrified wtf he is doing.

Of course he didn't it on purpose but he was so used to his old 600cc Bandit that he had no freaking clue that the Connie is so powerful with a slight twist of the throttle.

That is EXACTLY the point I'm making.

And he knows how to ride (to what degree I don't know) but he did own and ride a 600cc bike so he knows how to operate a clutch and throttle..

Knock on wood he didn't hurt himself, you, others or wreck the bike too...

 

[PosterFZ6]

That is EXACTLY the point I'm making.

And he knows how to ride (to what degree I don't know) but he did own and ride a 600cc bike so he knows how to operate a clutch and throttle..

Knock on wood he didn't hurt himself, you, others or wreck the bike too...

Yeah and he has been riding one year longer than me. He is a very cautious rider, whereas I tend to ride more aggressively. to his defense his '01 600cc Bandit really had no torque in the 1st gear. Connie on another hand is like a tractor.


I can understand the argument that untimely the power is in your wrist and it's all on the rider how he decides to ride.

Facts are:

Bigger bikes are generally heavier and have more torque making them less forgiving to a novice rider.

Hell, my first bike was a 400cc large. But it was also a 1978 Honda CB400. Light, nimble and really no power. Even Honda Rebel 250cc had more "umphh" than the CB.

After CB400 I jumped onto Suzuki C50 an 800cc cruiser. I grew into it. Low speed maneuvering was hard but I overcame the learning curve within 2 weeks.

Smaller bikes are a lot more forgiving to the mistakes of a novice rider.

If I was to buy a first bike as a novice I would buy Honda Shadow VLX 600cc cruiser/standard bike. - Very forgiving and fun enough to keep you interested.

 

[Ssky0078]

That is EXACTLY the point I'm making.

And he knows how to ride (to what degree I don't know) but he did own and ride a 600cc bike so he knows how to operate a clutch and throttle..

Knock on wood he didn't hurt himself, you, others or wreck the bike too...

So, why the hell can't I power wheelie. I can hamfist the crap out of my FZ1 from a rolling stop on to an on-ramp (the only place I really go nuts on surface streets, I figure 0-100 and slow back down to 65 before you merge with traffic is a perfectly fun way to spend a 1/4 mile). I generally only feel the front end get a little light, but never a full wheelie. Only once did I hit a pavement transition that the wheel got up for about a second, then it was down and I was speeding along normal again.

My Fz1 has a lot of lag from say 2000 to 4500 rpm, it feels like the bike is taking a big deep breath before it decides to unleash at 5500 rpm and up.

When ever I drove a manual transmission car I could always bust the tires loose in first, second and a lot of time 3rd gear. Why can't I figure this out on the bike? Again I can only feel the front tire get light but I can't lift it up.

 

[turbid]

townsends....what happend to that zrx? that s a freeking sweet bike to own and ride! (being me i think i would prefer the zrx over the fjr)

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

So, why the hell can't I power wheelie. I can hamfist the crap out of my FZ1 from a rolling stop on to an on-ramp (the only place I really go nuts on surface streets, I figure 0-100 and slow back down to 65 before you merge with traffic is a perfectly fun way to spend a 1/4 mile). I generally only feel the front end get a little light, but never a full wheelie. Only once did I hit a pavement transition that the wheel got up for about a second, then it was down and I was speeding along normal again.

My Fz1 has a lot of lag from say 2000 to 4500 rpm, it feels like the bike is taking a big deep breath before it decides to unleash at 5500 rpm and up.

When ever I drove a manual transmission car I could always bust the tires loose in first, second and a lot of time 3rd gear. Why can't I figure this out on the bike? Again I can only feel the front tire get light but I can't lift it up.

I dunno.

Possible the bike wasn't at 100%?? Two up its easier as theres more weight on the back of the bike, (same for the FJR).

On the FJR, as you stated, on any road trip, my buddy(on a BMer) and I, would get on the interstate ON RAMP, wind them up to 130MPH and slow down a bunch to merge with traffic (generally running at 80 MPH). That was the most fun of the trip until the twisties...

Just as a note, the FZ6, just WOT, picks the front up as stated at about 8K RPM, I'm not talking 2', maybe 6" (steering doesn't work anymore). Run it out to approx 12,000k, maybe 25', the nose gently sets down..

The FJR which redlined, as I re-call, 9 or 9,500k RPMs. To power wheelie that bike, I'd run it up to 4,000 RPM, close the throttle, then NAIL IT, WOT, it'd pick the ft up everytime, again, maybe 6" (plenty for me).. Two up, it'd do it in second gear too (did it with my friends kid on-board-about 16 at the time, I wasn't expecting it, the kid LOVED IT, big upwards thumb in front of my face shield)

For your FZ1, you may try the same but bring the rev's up a little higher, get deeper into the torque curve, close the throttle, then nail it WOT... I'd be really surprised if it didn't lift (again, I'm talking 6" wheelies)..

Back to topic, IMO, a new rider shouldn't be on ANYTHING that large to learn, its just WAY TO EASY TO GET HURT...

Please post, your wheelie result tests...

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

townsends....what happend to that zrx? that s a freeking sweet bike to own and ride! (being me i think i would prefer the zrx over the fjr)

I bough the ZRX 1100 new in 2000, it was green before that (carbed engine).

I had to wait about 8 months before it was released as I wanted that color scheme (loved the colors!). Six piston calipers on each front disc, that bike would STOP IN A FRIGGING HURRY!!! Hydralic clutch too..

Kept it for a couple of years, bone stock. The ergonomics were a bit on the tight side, definitly tighter than the FZ6. I have a bum right knee(doesn't bend fully from a bad MC wreck in 1977) so a 2.5 trip to Tampa, my knee was hurting... There also wasn't much extra cables, wires etc for bar risers either

Now that bike ONLY WHEELIED ONCE on me. I was accelerating thru an intersection, the front just started up the crown of the main road and the front end picked up some...

It'd do 145MPH (did it once way out in the boonies, middle of Florida).

Now with that bike there was little to no engine leg heat. The FZ6 has more leg heat, the FJR, 500% more leg heat, that's why I sold the FJR, just too friggin hot, especially in SW Florida. Elsewhere in the country, I don't think it'd be an issue.

Some other pic's (the only digital pic's I have of it):

(Pic's taken in the same spot in my driveway as my current FZ)

 

[turbid]

did i get you right, it was green and then you painted it black sometime? nice beast has an old school charm to it. i find it the best looking of the big muscle bikes

i'm a sentimentalist and once i get a bike/car home it tends to stay there, even if it rarely gets used. i still own the 2nd car i bought back in 2001 (the first one i crashed it).

part of the reason i bought the fz as my first bike is due to this. i didnt want a 250 because i knew it would not have left my garage, making it practically impossible to justify/upgrade to a better bike. i searched a lot on bikes to see which one would suit me best, which one would offer decent pillion accomodation, looks etc. im a cautious rider so it always stuck in me that when i get a bike i should take it easy no matter what

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

did i get you right, it was green and then you painted it black sometime? nice beast has an old school charm to it. i find it the best looking of the big muscle bikes

i'm a sentimentalist and once i get a bike/car home it tends to stay there, even if it rarely gets used. i still own the 2nd car i bought back in 2001 (the first one i crashed it).

part of the reason i bought the fz as my first bike is due to this. i didnt want a 250 because i knew it would not have left my garage, making it practically impossible to justify/upgrade to a better bike. i searched a lot on bikes to see which one would suit me best, which one would offer decent pillion accomodation, looks etc. im a cautious rider so it always stuck in me that when i get a bike i should take it easy no matter what

Nope, the 1999 model was green. For the 2000 model year ONLY, Kawasaki put out the Black/gold/silver edition (to date including the ZRX 1200) from the factory. My ZRX had the factory paint/decals on it, bone stock.

I think they did a red scheme after that and then I dunno.. I just didn't want the 1999 green, it defintily screamed Kawasaki!

 

[outasight20]

So, why the hell can't I power wheelie. I can hamfist the crap out of my FZ1 from a rolling stop on to an on-ramp (the only place I really go nuts on surface streets, I figure 0-100 and slow back down to 65 before you merge with traffic is a perfectly fun way to spend a 1/4 mile). I generally only feel the front end get a little light, but never a full wheelie. Only once did I hit a pavement transition that the wheel got up for about a second, then it was down and I was speeding along normal again.

My Fz1 has a lot of lag from say 2000 to 4500 rpm, it feels like the bike is taking a big deep breath before it decides to unleash at 5500 rpm and up.

When ever I drove a manual transmission car I could always bust the tires loose in first, second and a lot of time 3rd gear. Why can't I figure this out on the bike? Again I can only feel the front tire get light but I can't lift it up.

You probably need to rev it up to the powerband, then quickly close and wack open the throttle. This gives me wheelies in first every time even with my 17t sprocket.