Something I've noticed (accidents fz6 vs fz6r)

[ChevyFazer]

I'm on a few forums but the 2 I frequent most would be this one (obviously) and the fz6r forum. It's never good to hear about someone having a accident but I've noticed that there seem to be almost twice the accident post on the fz6r forum as there are here. I think we have more active members so statistically I would think we should have more of these kind of post, unless of course, could be be that maybe more mature riders flock to the fz6? Maybe being the fz6r was made to attract beginner riders they might be getting in over their head? I'm not trying to start anything, just thinking out loud about some things I've noticed lately.

Thoughts? Anyone else notice anything like this on other boards maybe?

 

[FZ09Bandit]

You've might have hit the nail on the head. I was thinking of trading my 6 for a older fz1 at the used place and one guy said that the 6r is the best fazer ever. I LOL I havnt seen any 6r riders yet. But its still got 65 hp and even for a beginner its alot. Even though my 6 was my first bike technically I still respect the **** out of it. Hell I have taken all my riders courses and still don't push it 110%.

I am working up. il do that with everything I ride. The 6r looks stupid to me. Its the Damn crystal headlight thing. Just gross.

 

[Motogiro]

Funny thing about data is how it comes to us. You also must consider if all the accidents are reported equally on the sites. Some thing that can seem obvious can bring us to a conclusion that may not be all that accurate. There must be some baseline for a standard set before we can consider the data as near accurate. Maybe less people, for what ever reason, report accidents on one forum as opposed to the other.

 

[ChevyFazer]

That is very true, without knowing the exact statistics, it's just that a observation.

 

[mikw73]

Yeah, accident statistics is a very complicated subject. I have not found a good source for motorcycle accident statistics, which is sad. One of the biggest factors is the numbers of miles a rider rides per unit time. (day/week/year) So, even a cautious, conservative rider who logs 30K miles a year will be st a fair bit of risk in comparison to the typical squid if the squid only logs 1500 miles a year. I'd love to have access to all the data the insurance companies have. I doubt the FZ6R riders have too different a mileage count than FZ6 riders, but being a newer bike, I'd bet the average rider resume is a bit shorter. Not sure if that would be a statistically significant difference though. We might be able to find out some stats, but it's a pretty personal subject. Nosing about and getting good data might be awkward. I think the MSF or somebody might do us all a favor by setting up a "log your wreck" database. The NHTSA doesn't seem to be focusing much attention on us.

 

[Marthy]

Most of the 6R owner are entry level rider. I don't have exact numbers but I would eye ball that 50% of the crash is due to improper balance. Most of the guys drop the bike at low speed. The bike is quite top heavy and once it goes... I've been riding since I'm 6 yo and the 6R wasn't the first street bike I ever rode, but is the first one I owned. Honestly I didn't do my homework... I tough the only difference was the fairing.

But the bike is all payed off now and since my wife is going to school full time right now, I might have to keep riding it for a bit longer. With low 80 HP... It's more than sufficient for now.

But I agree with some of you. The 6R is a bit much as a first bike if the only experience is the 8 hrs you did in a parking lot with your bike class. A 250 or even a scooter just to learn a bit is a better option I think.

 

[Motogiro]

Yeah, accident statistics is a very complicated subject. I have not found a good source for motorcycle accident statistics, which is sad. One of the biggest factors is the numbers of miles a rider rides per unit time. (day/week/year) So, even a cautious, conservative rider who logs 30K miles a year will be st a fair bit of risk in comparison to the typical squid if the squid only logs 1500 miles a year. I'd love to have access to all the data the insurance companies have. I doubt the FZ6R riders have too different a mileage count than FZ6 riders, but being a newer bike, I'd bet the average rider resume is a bit shorter. Not sure if that would be a statistically significant difference though. We might be able to find out some stats, but it's a pretty personal subject. Nosing about and getting good data might be awkward. I think the MSF or somebody might do us all a favor by setting up a "log your wreck" database. The NHTSA doesn't seem to be focusing much attention on us.

I forget what it was that I was looking up one day but it was along the same lines on accident data and although you would think there would be some accuracy to statistical data I couldn't nail anything down with accuracy.

Very interesting and enlightening.

 

[SweaterDude]

The 6r is definitely more beginner oriented than the standard FZ6, and as such i would agree that most 6r riders are probably younger, but im only 20 and the FZ6 is my first bike. ive been riding dirt forever, and i firmly believe that made me a hell of a lot better rider than a couple year's worth of street riding would have. but i have never felt that the FZ was too much for a beginner. and i would recommend the 6r as a beginner's bike for these reasons:

(here me out please.)

1.) its not a super fast bike but it has enough power to get you out of a potential problem situation
2.) It has fairings. may not sound like much but it means that in the more than likelihood that as a beginner the bike will be laid down, the fairings will get rashed instead of the frame/engine/etc.
3.) it is a sporty little bike which means: faster stopping, better handling, better balance, and better pickup. all of which help in avoiding problems.
4.) and best of all its not a 250cc bike. i have never agreed that a 250 is a good beginner bike, unless the person is small and not very strong or has a physical factor that the weight of anything over 325lbs would cause problems. if there was a 400cc twin or 4cyl out there that was newer, that would be the perfect beginner bike but i dont know of one.

and since i can see a lot of potential for the 6r to be a good/great beginner bike it makes sense that a lot of newer riders might be having wrecks (accidental or stupidity)

 

[FinalImpact]

The flip side about learning on powerless bikes is that it teaches bad habits that immediately cost folks the moment they get on a higher HP bike. Balance and weight transfer, stop/go common sense things are one thing you need to ride any bike but ill respect of the throttle = trouble!

Maybe I'm jaded as I always had high HP V8s in my life and it teaches Respect! But then again I also road dirt bikes sense I was I kid too!

A short story kinda unrelated: I used to ride stand up Jet Ski's for years (89 to 96). Guess who has the Worst Balance and time trying to stay on them; Male or Female??


- -> Men. Men have the worst time and to some extent the lack of balance and cordination to ride them. Most women can balance and steer better sooner than the men. Granted once the guys "get it" they play harder and get schooled quicker about What NOT to do!!! lol

So what about all the accidents that don't get reported? It kills the stats on all accounts. . .

 

[ChevyFazer]

Maybe I'm jaded as I always had high HP V8s in my life and it teaches Respect! But then again I also road dirt bikes sense I was I kid too!

I pretty much grew up around racing, it was dirt track first then came the drag strip. I was 14 when I bought my first car (a 89 Mazda mx6 gt) it came stock with a turbo but that was quickly yanked off for a much better one, along with some other stuff. At 15 I had finally aggravated my dad enough that he would tow the Mazda up to our local drag strip which was a 1/8m track and let me do some bracket racing every now and again. He figured that I would "get it out of my system" and maybe be a little calmer on the street once I did get my license. The car wasn't the fastest thing out there but it did run low 9's consistently and I mustered a few 8.90s out of it as well so it was very quick for a 4banger. But I will never forget what I herd my dad say probably a thousand times, " it's one thing to KNOW what YOU have under the hood, and another trying to show everyone else" That saying, along with going to the dragstrip keep me pretty calm and ticket free until I turned 17 and spun a rod bearing the day after my birthday. I ended up parting out the car and buying a 94 gmc sonoma, and it was all down hill from there. I never really owned anything that I would consider fast again until I picked up this fz6, and in that time between the Mazda and the Yamaha I have gotten over 30 tickets, ran from the cops, and should have died or been seriously injured numerous times. The day I got the fz6 I showed my dad, and the very first thing he said was that saying, that was the first time I've herd that in almost 10 years. He very clearly expressed his concern and dislike of not the bike but me having the bike after taking a ride on it, and knowing why I got rid of the v-strom. But since getting the bike I have yet to get "knocking on wood" another ticket. Having something "fast" again has completely changed how I drive a car, and remembering that old saying has prevented me from riding around like a jackass who has something to prove as well. Yeah I still have my fun, but overall I'm WAY calmer on the road then what I used to be, and it's that respect for the power and speed that I have available to me that has done it. But without that respect there is little hope...

 

[FIZZER6]

I would be willing to bet that most FZ6R riders are young squids who couldn't afford a Gixxer.

So your observation makes perfect sense.

 

[Marthy]

I would be willing to bet that most FZ6R riders are young squids who couldn't afford a Gixxer.

So your observation makes perfect sense.

I don't quite agree with you but do respect your opinion. Inexperience might be to blame here... doesn't make them squid. We all started somewhere...

 

[yamihoe]

lol, i actually do agree....gixxers are squid magnets.
some jerkoff was talkin crap on a brand new 600 gsxr while waitin to stage at the drags the other week.....guess who got left 3 bikes behind in the 1/8 mile by a fz6? yea, that squid.

 

[FIZZER6]

I don't quite agree with you but do respect your opinion. Inexperience might be to blame here... doesn't make them squid. We all started somewhere...

I believe that Yamaha developed the FZ6R because they knew there was a good market (especially in the USA) for bikes with full-fairing (supersport) look with an affordable price tag. That combination would mostly appeal to younger, inexperienced riders. While squids certainly ride all sorts of bikes there is no denying that they prefer SS bikes.

 

[ChevyFazer]

That is very true, but being on that forum as well as this one there are also plenty of older people who get the fz6r for the comfort, same thing as in the fz6, but since the fz6 is no longer around and the fz8 is only offered here in the states naked that leaves one choice from Yamaha. Although I personally can't remember any older experienced rider posting about a mishap mainly beginners. But then again I recognize most people by their screen name and avitar vs actually knowing the person.

 

[champion221elite]

Going strictly from my observations, I think the disparity in reported accidents between the FZ6 and FZ6R comes down to the age of the rider and relative riding experience.

Both bikes cost nearly the same when purchased new. While de-tuned for better low and mid range, the FZ6R is fully faired and could be considered more appealing to a new rider who lusts after a repli-racer such as an R6. A new rider convinces themselves they're ready to handle a 600 cc Inline 4 cylinder as their first bike. Maybe they can't afford to buy and insure an R6, but they want to convey a certain image. Enter the FZ6R... throw on some plastic, add a 78 hp I4 toss in a rider with limited skills and you have a recipe for a crash.

The FZ6 on the other hand is sold with a higher state of tune, is more rev-happy, has an aluminum frame but is sold semi-naked at a higher price than the FZ6R. The FZ6 reminds me of a comment made to me by the salesperson when buying my FZ6. He told me the FZ6 has never been popular because it takes "chrome or plastic to sell a bike". The FZ6 has zero chrome, and just enough plastic in the 1/4 fairing to house the headlight, speedo and relays.

Here's my analysis of the FZ6 vs. FZ6R conundrum regarding crashes.

The FZ6 appeals to more mature riders who have many thousands of miles under their belts and the FZ6 is NOT their first bike. They appreciate the power of the R6 derived engine, but don't much care for R6 ergo's or all the plastic on the sides.

The FZ6R appeals to newer riders due to it's lower entry price, cheaper insurance, cheaper tires and more linear power delivery. The bike comes equipped with a full fairing, but in exchange you get an old technology steel frame, dumbed down brakes/ suspension and smaller tires. The person buying an FZ6R today is likely a very new rider with little or no riding experience. Crashes can happen to anyone, but new riders are especially at risk.

 

[ChevyFazer]

Going strictly from my observations, I think the disparity in reported accidents between the FZ6 and FZ6R comes down to the age of the rider and relative riding experience.

Both bikes cost nearly the same when purchased new. While de-tuned for better low and mid range, the FZ6R is fully faired and could be considered more appealing to a new rider who lusts after a repli-racer such as an R6. A new rider convinces themselves they're ready to handle a 600 cc Inline 4 cylinder as their first bike. Maybe they can't afford to buy and insure an R6, but they want to convey a certain image. Enter the FZ6R... throw on some plastic, add a 78 hp I4 toss in a rider with limited skills and you have a recipe for a crash.

The FZ6 on the other hand is sold with a higher state of tune, is more rev-happy, has an aluminum frame but is sold semi-naked at a higher price than the FZ6R. The FZ6 reminds me of a comment made to me by the salesperson when buying my FZ6. He told me the FZ6 has never been popular because it takes "chrome or plastic to sell a bike". The FZ6 has zero chrome, and just enough plastic in the 1/4 fairing to house the headlight, speedo and relays.

Here's my analysis of the FZ6 vs. FZ6R conundrum regarding crashes.

The FZ6 appeals to more mature riders who have many thousands of miles under their belts and the FZ6 is NOT their first bike. They appreciate the power of the R6 derived engine, but don't much care for R6 ergo's or all the plastic on the sides.

The FZ6R appeals to newer riders due to it's lower entry price, cheaper insurance, cheaper tires and more linear power delivery. The bike comes equipped with a full fairing, but in exchange you get an old technology steel frame, dumbed down brakes/ suspension and smaller tires. The person buying an FZ6R today is likely a very new rider with little or no riding experience. Crashes can happen to anyone, but new riders are especially at risk.

Very well said.

 

[SweaterDude]

I pretty much grew up around racing, it was dirt track first then came the drag strip. I was 14 when I bought my first car (a 89 Mazda mx6 gt) it came stock with a turbo but that was quickly yanked off for a much better one, along with some other stuff. At 15 I had finally aggravated my dad enough that he would tow the Mazda up to our local drag strip which was a 1/8m track and let me do some bracket racing every now and again. He figured that I would "get it out of my system" and maybe be a little calmer on the street once I did get my license. The car wasn't the fastest thing out there but it did run low 9's consistently and I mustered a few 8.90s out of it as well so it was very quick for a 4banger. But I will never forget what I herd my dad say probably a thousand times, " it's one thing to KNOW what YOU have under the hood, and another trying to show everyone else" That saying, along with going to the dragstrip keep me pretty calm and ticket free until I turned 17 and spun a rod bearing the day after my birthday. I ended up parting out the car and buying a 94 gmc sonoma, and it was all down hill from there. I never really owned anything that I would consider fast again until I picked up this fz6, and in that time between the Mazda and the Yamaha I have gotten over 30 tickets, ran from the cops, and should have died or been seriously injured numerous times. The day I got the fz6 I showed my dad, and the very first thing he said was that saying, that was the first time I've herd that in almost 10 years. He very clearly expressed his concern and dislike of not the bike but me having the bike after taking a ride on it, and knowing why I got rid of the v-strom. But since getting the bike I have yet to get "knocking on wood" another ticket. Having something "fast" again has completely changed how I drive a car, and remembering that old saying has prevented me from riding around like a jackass who has something to prove as well. Yeah I still have my fun, but overall I'm WAY calmer on the road then what I used to be, and it's that respect for the power and speed that I have available to me that has done it. But without that respect there is little hope...

Thats kinda strange because i have since started driving slower since i got a bike. Except when im in "travel mode" because if im going somewhere i just wanna get there.

lol, i actually do agree....gixxers are squid magnets.
some jerkoff was talkin crap on a brand new 600 gsxr while waitin to stage at the drags the other week.....guess who got left 3 bikes behind in the 1/8 mile by a fz6? yea, that squid.

got passed by a guy on a gixxer-6 on the Natchez Trace the other day. the guy could ride well and he was all geared up (not squidding). anyway after he passed me i spooled it up and paced him from a little distance. we got off at a gas station for drinks (both me and the bike) and he was kinda impressed that i hung with him, apparently he thought i was one of his buddies (that couldn't keep with us on an R1 and a CBR-6).