Convo with 2 bros about why my exhaust is turning yellow

[YamahaMAXdRPMs]

Thanks for understanding that I'm not trying to pick on you about this.... merely trying to cover all the bases, to find out why it happened.

I take it you are suffering the same sort of deal as the person with the MIVV cans? the right side can is suffering/discoloring more than the left?

yeah, the right side can is a straight shot for exhaust flow, and the left has to take a curve, so it has less "carbon"(?) heating it.

 

[YamahaMAXdRPMs]

here are a few of the pics i snapped today.

you can see the difference in the black part that was covered by the rubber strap, and the rest of the cans. also you can see how yellow they are turning.

 

[Kazza]

These companies need to realise that with the number of forums we are all on, it doesn't take long for a bad experience to get relayed to 1000's of people.

Word spreading of bad customer service to good would probably be 10-1.

Makes me glad I went for Scorpions instead of TB's, but I will keep an eye on mine as well.

 

[08fz6]

here are a few of the pics i snapped today.

you can see the difference in the black part that was covered by the rubber strap, and the rest of the cans. also you can see how yellow they are turning.

im not trying to be mean in anyway. Little curious are they still nice and black on the back side of the can. as in the part that would be hidden under the seat. I noticed that the parts without the strap are faded to me that would be sun fade. I would think if the inside had anything to do with it or craftsmanship issues then the whole thing would have changed.. Just my thoughts.

 

[YamahaMAXdRPMs]

im not trying to be mean in anyway. Little curious are they still nice and black on the back side of the can. as in the part that would be hidden under the seat. I noticed that the parts without the strap are faded to me that would be sun fade. I would think if the inside had anything to do with it or craftsmanship issues then the whole thing would have changed.. Just my thoughts.

I know what you mean, but its like that all around the can, sun fade would only be on teh parts exposed to the sun, this is EVERYWHERE. and i put the pic of what it looks like under the strap to show how it was when it was new.

the only point im trying to make is that an expensive exhaust like that shoulnt go so crappy so fast. Sun fade, rain, hot engine, or dolphin spit... if they are going to sell a product... especially for that much, they should test under different environments to see how it will do in real life situations. Not just say, "well, it will hold up till the 90 day warranty is over.. after that... who cares"

 

[RJ2112]

The rubber strap would also tend to hold the temperature more constant on the part of the can it was in contact with. Not trying to say it would be cooler, merely that it would take longer to heat up and cool down.

I wonder if it would make sense to balance the flow between the cans? If you make a slight restriction in the direct path, more of the flow would be diverted into the left can....

Is the discoloration over the entire length of the carbon cover, on the right can? Does it have a gradient front to back or anything?

 

[Drinky]

haven't read the entire topic, but does your exhaust feel extremely hot when you touch it after a good high revving ride?? Since I fitted my akrapovic exhaust, I can actually use straps to hold down luggage on the rear, cus those exhausts get A LOT less hot.

 

[YamahaMAXdRPMs]

im not sure what an exhaust is suppose to feel like, but i think if my exhaust were that much hotter, other parts would be meleted around the exhaust as well. I had my turn signals running between them, wrapped in electrical tape and they are not melted or changed in anyway.

The entire exhaust is yellow, front to back side to side. the only place that its different is under the strap.

Bogus...

 

[krid80]

im not sure what an exhaust is suppose to feel like, but i think if my exhaust were that much hotter, other parts would be meleted around the exhaust as well. I had my turn signals running between them, wrapped in electrical tape and they are not melted or changed in anyway.

The entire exhaust is yellow, front to back side to side. the only place that its different is under the strap.

Bogus...

sounds like you are at wit's end. Are you going to send them back or just try to live with it? Something you can try is wet sanding them to see if that helps. I know dirt bikers will sand their carbon pipe guards if they get scratched and they look great when done. If you wet sand, you could get them clear coated when done. may help with UV.

Just a thought.

 

[Motogiro]

Here's what I'm going to do today!
I need a part for The Two Bro exhaust and this morning I'm going up to the factory/HQ in Santa Ana I will personally speak on your behalf.

I would also like to read a suggestion and disclaimer printed on my installation sheet:

Repack all road canisters every 3000 miles.

Two Brothers Racing products are intended for closed course competition purpose only, and therefore are sold "As is" without warranty. Two Brothers Racing specifically disclaims all responsibility for consequential and incidental damages or any other losses arising from the use of these products.

I'm leaving in a few minutes...No, I can't pick you up some extra screws! Hahaha!

I'll come back with some 'one on one' tactile resolve on this but try to remember I'm originally from Jersey and here is my disclaimer:

"You have a right to cry when I crack your a$$. Nobody said life wasn't gonna be hard! We as FZ6 forum members disagree with your present policy and want action now! Yeah and on your way back from your bosses office can ya get me a cup o cawfee?" :Flip:

Seriously I'll be very tactful and hopefully get an answer and possibly some resolve on this. I was at their HQ last summer and they just comped me the screws I lost. The showroom is an awesome candy store.
These people are really nice and I agree that we should be able to resolve this issue especially being we are a group 10,000 strong.

So I'm off to represent my peeps. Hope they don't have me arrested....

 

[Chris]

Cliff, did you already get the Two Bros exhaust?

 

[reiobard]

Here's what I'm going to do today!
I need a part for The Two Bro exhaust and this morning I'm going up to the factory/HQ in Santa Ana I will personally speak on your behalf.

I would also like to read a suggestion and disclaimer printed on my installation sheet:

Repack all road canisters every 3000 miles.

Two Brothers Racing products are intended for closed course competition purpose only, and therefore are sold "As is" without warranty. Two Brothers Racing specifically disclaims all responsibility for consequential and incidental damages or any other losses arising from the use of these products.

I'm leaving in a few minutes...No, I can't pick you up some extra screws! Hahaha!

I'll come back with some 'one on one' tactile resolve on this but try to remember I'm originally from Jersey and here is my disclaimer:

"You have a right to cry when I crack your a$$. Nobody said life wasn't gonna be hard! We as FZ6 forum members disagree with your present policy and want action now! Yeah and on your way back from your bosses office can ya get me a cup o cawfee?" :Flip:

Seriously I'll be very tactful and hopefully get an answer and possibly some resolve on this. I was at their HQ last summer and they just comped me the screws I lost. The showroom is an awesome candy store.
These people are really nice and I agree that we should be able to resolve this issue especially being we are a group 10,000 strong.

So I'm off to represent my peeps. Hope they don't have me arrested....

Good luck, although i still don;t find it unreasonable that they want to look at what he is talking about before promising him anything...

 

[YamahaMAXdRPMs]

Good luck, although i still don;t find it unreasonable that they want to look at what he is talking about before promising him anything...

oh yeah, i totally agree with you, im not asking for a promise to fix for free, site-unseen. I just think its crap that they only have a 90 day warranty, then tell me it may be a defect on their end, but i would have to pay for it anyway. Just kills me to pay that much and get an "oh well" less than a year later.

 

[Boneman]

I've been following this and your other thread about the issue your having and I have a few comments.

1. Personally, after seeing your pictures, they don't look that bad. Mine and others look about the same, even though we have more miles on them. So in the end, they are going to look like that regardless. So to me it's knod of a mute point to argue with TB as they are going to look like that anyway at some point in time.

2. Without TB getting their hands on your cans to look at them, how would/could you expect them to make an evaluation or decision? By the sounds of the conversation you had, they will contact you if/when they find something and it would be your decision if you wanted to spend more money to have them fix anything. If it was found to be a manufacturing defect on their part, he's already suggested that they would take care of you. Honestly, I don't know what more you could expect from them?

They gave you reasons of what are some of the leading causes that might casue this issue and provided you with seval options. Just beacuse you don't like the options dosen't mean it's still not a valid option.

Like others have said, they don't know who you are or even if what you are saying is truthful, hence them wanting to look at them for themselves. Can you blame them?

When you first mentioned that "they have turned yellow" I was expecting the worst, but after seeing your pics, I'm like "yeah, so". All CF breaks down over time with sun and heat. For some reason yours happend sooner than later, but it WAS going to happen. Did you ever treat your cans with protectant like 303?

All the research I did on CF cans before I bought mine told me that they would fade and the resin would yellow slightly over time so I wen t in prepared and have done my best to keep them clean, use 303 protectant on them and will soon be re-packing them. unfortunately it's the nature of the beast for CF and your fighting a losing battle with them fading.

I agree it would be nice that since you do have lower mileage on them that maybe they split the shipping costs with you or something like meeting you half way on it.

Good luck. Remember you will get farther with them being nice and professional. Start throwing around threats and being pissy at them wont exactly give them any more motivation to go the extra mile for your situation.

 

[YamahaMAXdRPMs]

I've been following this and your other thread about the issue your having and I have a few comments.

1. Personally, after seeing your pictures, they don't look that bad. Mine and others look about the same, even though we have more miles on them. So in the end, they are going to look like that regardless. So to me it's knod of a mute point to argue with TB as they are going to look like that anyway at some point in time.

2. Without TB getting their hands on your cans to look at them, how would/could you expect them to make an evaluation or decision? By the sounds of the conversation you had, they will contact you if/when they find something and it would be your decision if you wanted to spend more money to have them fix anything. If it was found to be a manufacturing defect on their part, he's already suggested that they would take care of you. Honestly, I don't know what more you could expect from them?

They gave you reasons of what are some of the leading causes that might casue this issue and provided you with seval options. Just beacuse you don't like the options dosen't mean it's still not a valid option.

Like others have said, they don't know who you are or even if what you are saying is truthful, hence them wanting to look at them for themselves. Can you blame them?

When you first mentioned that "they have turned yellow" I was expecting the worst, but after seeing your pics, I'm like "yeah, so". All CF breaks down over time with sun and heat. For some reason yours happend sooner than later, but it WAS going to happen. Did you ever treat your cans with protectant like 303?

All the research I did on CF cans before I bought mine told me that they would fade and the resin would yellow slightly over time so I wen t in prepared and have done my best to keep them clean, use 303 protectant on them and will soon be re-packing them. unfortunately it's the nature of the beast for CF and your fighting a losing battle with them fading.

I agree it would be nice that since you do have lower mileage on them that maybe they split the shipping costs with you or something like meeting you half way on it.

Good luck. Remember you will get farther with them being nice and professional. Start throwing around threats and being pissy at them wont exactly give them any more motivation to go the extra mile for your situation.

I never threw any threats with him. and i wasnt pissy till he got pissy and sarcastic. And as i said, he says "they wouldnt be free unless they are under warranty" so what would sending them do? A. "They are yellow, we can fix for $400" or B "nothing we can do about it"

if you guys are saying thats just how it is... i guess i just have a higher expectancy of an almost thousand dollar product. why pay that much more for CF if its gonna yellow up? i can see like 7k miles of no repack.. but 2? in less than a year? c'mon now

 

[Wavex]

Sounds to me like they are trying to help when they don't have to... For all they know you're running too rich (which would explain most of the symptoms), did not install the exhaust properly and put 10k miles on the pipes without following the repacking schedule... Plus you knew about the warranty before buying the pipes, so if you did not like it, you could have chosen a different pipe

I am playing devil's advocate, but put yourself in their shoes for a second...

oh and your pipes look good to me in the pics I've seen in this thread...

 

[YamahaMAXdRPMs]

Sounds to me like they are trying to help when they don't have to... For all they know you're running too rich (which would explain most of the symptoms), did not install the exhaust properly and put 10k miles on the pipes without following the repacking schedule... Plus you knew about the warranty before buying the pipes, so if you did not like it, you could have chosen a different pipe

I am playing devil's advocate, but put yourself in their shoes for a second...

oh and your pipes look good to me in the pics I've seen in this thread...

i understand. Not arguing with anyone really. Thats why i asked if i was outta line... maybe his general customer service attitude got me.

I just got kinda annoyed that the only option is pay $400, or live with it. To me thats just kinda crappy after less than a year. i realize warranty. but... i dont know, i guess i expected more for the money

 

[Ridgeback]

Every exhaust manufacturer I've seen,states they do not warranty discoloration on Carbon cans,not even during the first year.
Seems strange the packing's breaking down with such low miles though Maybe it's a batch of moody resin,but like others,they've got to see it,to find out which it is.

It needs to be sorted before you blow a hole through the carbon (seen it happen).

 

[zigzagg321]

A nearly $1000 product, CF or not, showing wear like that after one year and a few thousand miles is bogus if you ask me. I doubt Ill buy CF cans after seeing all this, whether or not TB helps out.

I'd think emailing them several good pictures of the system would be sufficient for TB to notice anything out of the ordinary with your cans, perhaps a pre-1st step before anyone has to spend any money.

 

[Motogiro]

Okay..... I'm back from Two Brothers Racing and here's the deal on these exhaust. You have to repack them! They feel this is the biggest shortcoming of their customers. I have to admit. I never repacked mine on the FZ6 but it didn't effect the aluminum cans as probably not the titanium cans.
I spent some good time with Joel Albrecht, their R&D engineer and he said that all of these CF cans will change color but will do so more severely from high temp operation which is gong to be more evident if the packing has not been changed.

They showed me different bikes with CF cans and yes they are a different color than brand new CF but they looked great! I was told that these bikes raced. Either dirt or drag race and the packing was changed after racing. That sort of surprised me but that's what they said. These exhaust are designed for race application and if treated/serviced correctly should still look good.
I think Jay said he swapped the cans which is a good idea because of the favored flow through the one can.

As can be imagined, they do get a lot of people who mistreat or run these exhausts beyond the recommended service and repacking.
They would be out of business if they allowed all of the claims but they certainly don't want a bad rep with a forum like ours and they expressed that.

Still their policy has to be, "Send them in and they will inspect them and work accordingly to a resolve.

I went there today with a defective part and there's going to be some hub bub about it because a defective CNC machined part made it into a finished package.

They are nice people to deal with and I understand Jay's dilemma and at least the forum had some physical presence at that facility today. I'm sorry I can't do more but I believe they'll try to make good on any defect they're responsible for. It's just hard to have to go through the hoops on this one which is pulling the cans and shipping back and forth.

Also I love their exhaust. I like the design. The magnesium end caps really look great. You can get end caps either chrome or polished now. They sound great although I've heard Remus on the FZ and liked that sound also.

I know this doesn't change anything related to this but hope at least it improves the relationship between our forum members and Two Brothers Racing and who knows..... If you continue a friendly dialogue they may bend a little.