Removing the Catalytical Converter

[Jacobien]

I know, removing it kills birds and flowers etc. :ban:

Out of my understanding, if you remove the catalyst, you might gain 0.001HP.

Yet, I see that Arrow sells a mid pipe, thus eliminating the catalyst. Why would they sell one if it does nothing?

If I gain more than 5HP, then I will do it and pay $1 each year extra to WWF.
If not, then I will just keep the $1.

What do you guys/girls think?

 

[Jb40k]

I've read quite a few threads on here to do with either gutting the cat, or replacing with a mid-pipe... General feelings are, no noticable increase in power unless fitted with aftermarket cans. However on its own, there is some minor increase in the low-end rumble you get upto 6k rmp.

I have the Scorpion link pipe ready to fit, it just seems like alot of effort for minimal gains, so I'm waiting for a set of cans to go with.

 

[Jacobien]

I agree.

The aftermarket cans along with a mid pipe will have the same end result as a full system. I do like the rumble at low RPM, but I am looking for more sound with more HP.

So, a mid pipe with cans and dyno will be the best solution...

 

[RJ2112]

The only justification I have heard to date that makes some sense is that the removal of the Cat will decrease the exhaust temperature after that point..... meaning the muffler and seat will not get as hot. It might also reduce the weight of the bike by a couple of pounds.... but I have not seen anyone post numbers for what the mid pipe without a cat weighs, compared to the one with the cat.

 

[abacall]

I disagree. I've seen reviews of exhausts systems and the Leo Vince with the cat-replacement pipe was the only one to show noticeable gains. The only difference between the others and the LV was the replacement of the catpipe.
When you take it out you will see the huge restriction in the pipe. It's a honeycomb design that seriously reduces flow.

On my cage with a full exhaust I left the cat in (high-flow unit) due to the size of the engine and large amount of pollutants that it produces. On the Fazer I felt ok with this decision based on the small engine size and small amount of pollution it generates.

Oh, and weight-wise. HUGE difference. The cat is very heavy, and the replacement is very light. I don't have a scale at home, otherwise I'd post some #s for you.

 

[abacall]

Took me a bit, but I finally found the post I was looking for...

Post #13....

 

[cyprusgrump]

I've ordered the LeoVince and the Arrow cat eliminator...

Part of the deciding factor for me was the heat that the cat produces... I ride in Cyprus where it is quite warm (air intake up to 42ºC) and the heat from the cat is really noticeable - especially when I cane the bike!

 

[fazil]

I've ordered the LeoVince and the Arrow cat eliminator...

You don't have to buy cat elliminator seperately if you ordered Leovince pipes. That kit already includes a cat elliminator pipe.

 

[RJ2112]

........

On my cage with a full exhaust I left the cat in (high-flow unit) due to the size of the engine and large amount of pollutants that it produces. On the Fazer I felt ok with this decision based on the small engine size and small amount of pollution it generates.

Oh, and weight-wise. HUGE difference. The cat is very heavy, and the replacement is very light. I don't have a scale at home, otherwise I'd post some #s for you.

For what it's worth, with all of the emissions controls on modern cars, motorcycles makes more pollution per mile. A lawn mower makes nearly 10X as much as a car does due to no controls at all. A Hibachi makes even more than that.

The cat itself? How restrictive can it be, when it passes all of the gasses up through 13,000 RPM? All of those dyno charts looked like they indicated zero gain with just a can, and maybe 3 HP gain with the cat out. 3%? That's not terribly restrictive.....

I'm personally not concerned with the increase in smog; it'd be nice to lose the weight.... the number of miles ridden per year by all motorcycles in any condition world wide does not add up to the amount of pollution generated by electrical generation plants..... it's a very small part of the 'pee' in the pool.

 

[cyprusgrump]

You don't have to buy cat elliminator seperately if you ordered Leovince pipes. That kit already includes a cat elliminator pipe.

I may be selling an Arrow cat eliminator for a S2 then!

 

[Fred]

Yet, I see that Arrow sells a mid pipe, thus eliminating the catalyst. Why would they sell one if it does nothing?

Because people will pay for it, allowing Arrow to make a quick easy profit.

By your logic, these devices also work. Why would they sell them if they do nothing?

- Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices

TORNADO Air Management Systems :: More Power! More Mileage!

e-Racing :: OFFICIAL SITE :: The e-RAM Electric Supercharger from e-Racing Motorsports

Cheers,
Fred

 

[sjryser]

I had a muffler shop fab me a new midpipe last week, just for sh*&s and giggles. It was $10. After i disconected the battery for a few minutes(because i heard Somewhere on here i was supposed to do that to adjust the fuel mixture?) I butt dynoed it and was pleased by the increase(maybe 3 HP). Most of all I was pleased with the deeper sound. Still saving for better cans though.

 

[abacall]

Because people will pay for it, allowing Arrow to make a quick easy profit.

By your logic, these devices also work. Why would they sell them if they do nothing?

Cheers,
Fred

Glad you brought this up. Please do your research before buying and installing stuff. That's the great thing about the internets.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Question: I already have Scop's (SS) on my 07 (without DB Killers) with the cat. Stock ECM/air filter. If I got rid of the cat, what sound/performance (if any) would I gain? Much louder, deeper?

Tks Scott

 

[ant_mb]

I butt dynoed it and was pleased by the increase(maybe 3 HP)

What does 3 HP feel like?

I'll bet you $100 bucks thatt if you actually dyno it before and after you'd actually lose HP. Care to take the bet? It'll pay for the runs if you win.

 

[abacall]

^^Then why was the LV the only system to show real gains throughout the powerband?
I'm not asking as a wise-ass, I'm curious as to what other explanation there may be.

 

[RJ2112]

^^Then why was the LV the only system to show real gains throughout the powerband?
I'm not asking as a wise-ass, I'm curious as to what other explanation there may be.

I thought it interesting that the multiple A to B plots with the various slip ons had slightly different 'A' plots ('B' wth the slip on).... If it was the same bike, on the same dyno, with a 'fresh' baseline between the various slip ons...... why did the baseline change?

It's not like it's a huge change; maybe that's air temp differences, and engine temp affecting the power.... at least all the runs looked similar for the 'A' runs.

 

[Fred]

I thought it interesting that the multiple A to B plots with the various slip ons had slightly different 'A' plots ('B' wth the slip on).... If it was the same bike, on the same dyno, with a 'fresh' baseline between the various slip ons...... why did the baseline change?

That's a sign of legitimate dyno work.

I doubt that they did all those dyno pulls in a single day. They'd have to swap exhausts constantly, and that would mean letting the exhausts cool, unbolting them, fitting the new ones and getting back on the dyno. That's several days of work to test all those systems.

So each exhaust was tested under different temperature, pressure and humidity conditions. The only fair way to test that is to take a new baseline run each day, then as quick as you can, swap in the aftermarket pipe and take a second run.

You can't compare one aftermarket pipe's run to another, since their conditions vary too much. Instead, look at each aftermarket pipe and see how it compares to the baseline run.

Of course, without retuning the bike for the pipe, you really don't know what you'll get out of a pipe. I can forgive them for not doing that, since it would have taken about 5 hours of tuning for each exhaust system they tested.

Fred

 

[RJ2112]

That's a sign of legitimate dyno work.

................ The only fair way to test that is to take a new baseline run each day, then as quick as you can, swap in the aftermarket pipe and take a second run.

.............. Instead, look at each aftermarket pipe and see how it compares to the baseline run.

Of course, without retuning the bike for the pipe, you really don't know what you'll get out of a pipe. I can forgive them for not doing that, since it would have taken about 5 hours of tuning for each exhaust system they tested.

Fred

Agreed. Done a lot of testing for electronics with similar circumstances. Least biased reuslts require a fresh 'A' run for every change of configuration ('B').

If the only change to the exhaust is aft of the collector (with no changes on the intake side), and the vast majority of the time aft of the Catalytic converter.... how much tuning for the specific pipe do you think is really feasible? I'd hazard the guess that all the systems that leave the cat in place are going to 'tune up' effectively the same...... The constructive and deconstructive reflections back to the cylinders are all going to 'bounce' on the first major impedance they 'see', right?

I can understand how removing that first reflections' source would cause a tuning issue.... the reflection would then be caused at the input to the 'cans', a good distance further 'down' the pipe.

Did the pre '03 YZFR6 have a power valve in the exhaust, like the post '03s do?

 

[Hellgate]

Because people will pay for it, allowing Arrow to make a quick easy profit.

By your logic, these devices also work. Why would they sell them if they do nothing?

- Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices

TORNADO Air Management Systems :: More Power! More Mileage!

e-Racing :: OFFICIAL SITE :: The e-RAM Electric Supercharger from e-Racing Motorsports

Cheers,
Fred

I can't believe the E Ram nee, E Scam is still around! 15 years ago that dude was on the old BBS systems hawking them. I joked about rerouting the A/C from my car into the intake to make a true "cold" air intake. He responded with this long drawn out reply explaining the net of the cold air gain would cancel out the AC pump.

I heard the magnet system will keep lime off the inside of you water pipes too.

What did PT Barnum say, "There is a sucker born every minute".