I asked repeatedly and you ignored, just what is your standard? HOW MANY BLATANT LIES AND ABANDONED POLICIES FROM THIS PRESIDENT ARE TOO MANY? Taxes, spending, campaign finance reform, big government, government control of private business, "stimulus" that doesn't kick in for 2 years, bipartisanship, mandatory 48 hour reviews of all proposed legislation, transparent and ethical "postpartisan" leadership, I could go on.
This is the same thing you say in every thread. I don't set unreasonable expectations for anyone, so I'm not going to lay out a set of "requirements" that President Obama must meet for him to get my approval. I understand that the reality we live in is not defined in black and white terms. Everything is mutable, everything changes. Living by, or expecting anyone else to live by, a static set of rules that never changes no matter what is not the way I choose to see the world. I am not naive. I know all politicians make promises on the campaign trail that they cannot deliver. I also realize that a President's opinion of how to handle an event may change as more information about that event becomes available. I don't see anything wrong with that. I actually admire anyone with the capacity to revisit thier previous decisions as more information comes to light.
But, since it is such a big part of your world view, and hindsight is 20/20, what were your standards for President Bush? Did he live up to those standards? Do you hold him accountable for, say, the lives lost in Iraq because he knowingly allowed the presentation of falsified evidence to support the bogus claim that Saddam had WMD's? What did you do when you found out he allowed those lies about those WMD's to be told? Did you write your Congressmen? Did you call for his impeachment? I did, and if President Obama had done the same thing, I would call for his impeachment, and demand he make face-to-face apologies to every American family that lost loved ones because of his dishonestly.
Before you go off on your "so you're saying Bush did it too" tirade, remember that you are asking me to give you my standards for President Obama, so it's only fair for you to share what your standards were for President Bush.
If you decline to answer, I will respect your decesion, and ask that you not make demands of me that you are unwilling to answer for yourself.
Bush never viciously attacked his predecesor for these policies, nor did he run a campaign attacking them and garnering political points, and then simply continue them. 67% of MSNBC readers agree that this is wrong and he needs to release this information. So does the Freedom of Information Act, and so does the federal judge that found it unlawful, twice, to keep them secret. Yes very insane and irrational indeed :thumbup:
As I've said repeatedly,
I never attacked Bush for this particular policy, therefore
I will not attack Obama for it. How is that difficult to understand? Did you attack Bush for this policy? (I asked this before and you have yet to answer) If you did not, how can you not see the hypocricy of attacking Obama for the same thing? I am holding both Presidents to the same standard on this issue, are you?
As far as Obama holding Bush to a different standard than himself, he is currently holding himself to the same standard Bush did, until the appeals process has been completed. I imagine he is forcing this issue because he wants the appeal process to be completed, thereby setting legal precedent for all Presidents to release all their guest lists. When the appeals process completes, if he still refuses to release the list, I will be upset, and will let him, and my congressmen know it.
Don't pity me, my life is fantastic, I'm doing extremely well. You are just words on a computer screen to me that keep me occupied while running reports, so let's not get too personal okay? So speaking of insane and irrational logic, what you are saying above is what, exactly? Bush did it too? Really? So I guess I need to ask this for the fifth time, what is the level of accountability for Obama? You have sidestepped this as all other have, instead pointing at Bush and implying that Obama will not be held accountable because you feel that Bush wasn't. So following your logic we will never have a president held accountable to the law, the constitution, or his own words, because the previous one wasn't. In other words, there will never be change. You want it both ways, but you can't have it. Integrity comes at a cost that Obama clearly is not willing to pay and you are not willing to accept.
Oh, here comes the "you're saying Bush did it too" nonsense. I knew you would get around to it sooner or later, since it's one of your incredibly limited repitoire of rebuttals. I never said that Obama should be allowed to do anything just because Bush did it. Those are not my words. You are attemting to put words in my mouth, yet again. I am simply referencing Bush because you seem to want to forget about how he repeatedly violated the same standards that you demand Obama be held to. When you do that, it is hypocricy, which is a fancy word for flip-flopping. But, I imagine your denial won't allow you to see the truth. Instead, you will, once again, twist my words to make it sound like I think Obama should be allowed to get away with everything Bush did. You just keep sticking with the exact same irrational arguments, because the rational arguments show how you are a hypocrite. I addressed this demand to "share my standards" at the beginning of this post. The ball is in your court to provide the specific standards you held President Bush to, whether or not he violated your standards, and what you did as a result.
Hahaha that is hilarious! I didn't realize that sharing very limited information surrounded by propaganda on the INTERNET was what he was talking about! So as long as he posts it to his blog it's somehow more transparent than actually saying it, in public, without a script and a teleprompter, like every other president in history has done.
There is much more information on that website than the President's blog. It's also quite easy to navigate, and leads to many other government websites that didn't exist until President Obama issued his Memorandum of
Transparency and Open Government. The fact that all you see is "very limited information surrounded by propaganda" reveals that either you didn't look very hard at the site, or that you are in denial that President Obama is actually taking steps to make the government more transparent. This is just the beginning, too. There will be more transparency revealed in the future. For example: (This is from Whitehouse.gov)
Data.gov
The Challenge
Data produced by government agencies are often hard to find or are published in proprietary formats of limited utility. As a result, a wealth of information remains untapped by the ingenuity and creativity of the American people.
The Solution
Data.gov is a citizen-friendly platform that provides access to Federal datasets. With a searchable data catalog, Data.gov helps the public find, access, and download non-sensitive Government data and tools in a variety of formats.
The Benefit
Enterprising Americans will be able to create new web applications that help individuals, communities, and businesses access, sort, visualize, and understand public data in new ways. Data transparency can spur economic, scientific, and educational innovation, as well as civic engagement by making it easier to build applications, conduct analysis, and perform research.
Additional Details
Launched on May 21, 2009, Data.gov already provides access to many Government datasets. Plans are in place to add new datasets and to continually improve the features and tools. Future versions will be even better because the system has the capacity to evolve based on feedback from the American public. We look to you to show us what is possible.
This goes above and beyond "very limited information" as you say. Easy access to vast amounts of federal agencies' data is undeniably different from anything we've seen from previous administrations. It's change, but you are in denial about it.
I'd like to hear, asking this for the sixth time now, what are your expectations for this president. Where is his level of accountability? What would make you speak out against him? What rights can he take away, what taxes can he impose, what level of economic collapse can he cause that would anger you? What could he do that would cause you serious concern? Where is the line he can't cross, or isn't there one? Honestly, where is the line?
Yes, your oft repeated rediculiously unreasonable demand for me to spell out exactly what Obama should and shouldn't be able to do to get my approval. This is the third time you've brought this up in this thread alone. Are you familiar with the term "one-trick pony?"
I have already stated that I don't hold anyone, let alone our President, to a black and white, lockstep, absolute set of unwavering expectations. I believe that because of the billions of variables in every situation, each situation should be evaluated individually and on it's own merits and flaws. This is most easily done with hindsight, as in after a situation has resolved. The matter of whether White House Guest lists should be made public is still under appeal. It is unresolved, and I can't make an accurate decision about how Obama handled it until it is over.
However, President Bush's term is over. This gives us the opportunity to use hindsight to see how he measured up to our individual standards. So, I'll give you the opportunity to exercise your hindsight. What were your expectations for President Bush? Did he live up to them? If he did not, what did you do about it? Be honest, and if you choose not to answer, I will respect your decision. I only ask that you do the same for everyone else here that supports Obama.
