they said it was temp that i heard with respect to the banks.
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they said it was temp that i heard with respect to the banks.
Ya, I don't comprehend anything? Way over my head. Apparently it was way over the heads of the Best and the Brightest, and obviously you are one of them by your own proclamation!
If you really are as intelligent as you proclaim, then why don't you deal with the issues and stop the name calling that Obama is a Socialist and citing a empty suit like Glenn Beck as some sort of economic or political Sage.
And do you really think that the Chinese are going to abandon the U.S.? Do you think they really have a sustainable economic system without us? If you do then that blows your whole argument for free market capitalism. If we had not moved allot our production, in the never ending quest for subsistence wages, to China do you think they would be where they are today?
You can blame Dodd and Obama if you wish. But Obama has only been President for 70 odd days and if I'm correct I believe everything he is dealing with predates his administration. And as for Dodd, I think I remember that the Republicans (I'm sure that's your Team or maybe Libertarian, if you like to smoke pot too.) were in control of the House and Senate for 6 of Bush's 8 years and therefore Dodd was in the minority and relatively powerless.
So the current economic disaster is the Republican's Tar Baby and their bankrupt trickle down economic theory. Unless of course you want to believe the Democrats wrecked everything in 8 months in 2007 while the Republicans filibustered everything the Democrats proposed, unless they got their way, and campaigned on the Democrats doing nothing. My guess is you believe the latter.
I get sarcastic when I tire of reading regurgitated talking points from FOX, and CNBC. If you are so scholarly, why would you possibly think Glenn Beck has a point. At least cite George Will.
Comprendes!
So I heard a story on Bloomberg news today that the total package so far is $12.7 TRILLION dollars. Our GDP for '07 was $14 Trillion! Now that is inflation waiting to happen, just watch and see.
Cuba
Junior Member
You are so clueless it's almost funny, except that your vote counts. You have no idea what it is I am discussing, yet you respond. Why? I'm not saying you don't know the answer, or that I disagree with your answer, what I'm saying is you haven't even understood the question.
Cuba
Junior Member
That's hyperinflation.
Actually the root cause is Bill Clinton. Why? His administration pushed the notion that everyone can own a house and started the rush to force the banks to market crap loans. The issue grew and grew during the last administration and from my PIOV the current administration is throwing good money after bad by refinancing the people who shouldn't have had a house to begin with and have now defaulted.
Here's how stupid this is. My wife wanted to refi her house. They wouldn't approve her and suggested she skip three payments so she could qualify for the new Obama plan. That my friends is jacked up. Needless to say she went a different route to refi.
Okee-dokee!
Cuba
Junior Member
I agree, and that bit about refinancing is insane. Are you serious? Can you share which company that was? I'd like to give them a call and ask them about it.
Dead serious. My wife's mortgage is through Oquin (I think I spelled that right) and her rental house is through Countrywide. Oquin was the company that told her to skip payments.
Um, they are. China, the EU and Russia want a new global currency, as the dollar tumbles in value. You simply cannot print money to solve a debt crisis. Ask Japan about this. If the dollar is not the accepted trade currency, it could take decades to recover, as the Euro is much stronger.
"The primary reason the USD has held up so well in the last decades, in spite of ever worsening US trade and budget deficits that add to over $1 trillion a year combined, is that the US was an export economy's dream customer. Because the US was such a good customer to the world, they bought our US Treasury bonds, and lent trillions in other ways to the US consumer. As long as the US consumer could carry that process out, our trade partners could make bank on the US and USD.
However, once the US consumer is tapped out, and cannot effectively make a return on investment of our trade partners, the rationale for the continuation of the USD goes away. All that remains after that is a budget busted US Federal government. At that point, why would our trade partners continue to buy all the US treasury bonds and such, and debase their currencies, if the US cannot be such a good customer anymore? At that point, the USD will rapidly fall into a devaluation crisis.
None of us in the US has ever dealt with the twin threats coming our way in the next few years. The first is a real economic depression. The second will be the demise of the US dollar, or at the very least, its severe devaluation like 70% or more (at first).
I would like to point out that in the last great depression in the US in the 1930's, we did not have a combination of a currency crisis with the economic crisis. The USD, although it fell compared to gold, held up well. Deflation increased the value of anything called cash, including gold.
This time, the outcome will be different. This time, the US faces an economic depression AND a currency crisis soon after. How far off is this?
Well, first, we are already well into the beginning of the economic depression. The damage done to the world credit and financial markets has been stunning since August 07. Over $35 trillion of value has been lost in the world financial markets. That has spilled over into the real economy now, and we will start to see bigger and bigger layoff notices. Economic demand will decline and we won't see any mere one year recession, like all the pundits say ‘we foresee 5 quarters of economic decline in the US…'
This time we are talking on the scale of 5 years of economic decline and unemployment getting over 20%. The Great Depression lasted ten years, and the US had well over 25% unemployment. US economic production was halved!" - Market Oracle UK.
China's economy needs us, just as we need them to buy our bonds. The problem is that now we are seen as a risk. In the past, our government and currency was stable. Now that we are on a spending spree, and spending money we do not have, the rest of the world is leery about the sustainability of our economy and currency. Remember, it will take decades to recover from this debt, our kids grandchildren will be paying for this. Our debt is 11 trillion dollars, and our GDP is 14 trillion. It does not take a math genius to see what the outcome is going to be.
Nice clip, its always good to read analysis not steeped in ideology.
The only thing I would say is that the US economy still vastly outstrips any other economy in the world, even if you combine all of the others it is only a little more than 1/2 of our GDP.
So in my view, the world cannot afford to allow the US to become a 3rd world economy. If we completely crash or they devalue our currency as mentioned in the article you cite, they go down with us.
This does not invalidate any of the points made. It just means that the other G20 countries need to work with us through this unprecedented crisis.
Flying off the handle about Obama forcing GM's hand in ousting Wagoner is straining at swallowing a gnat compared to the dilemma our Government faces.
After all Liddy was appointed by Bush and Paulson to head AIG in Sept. 08 when it came looking for a bailout. But that fact is obviously lost in this discussion.
Debating about politics on the internet is like trying to fish in a swimming pool! It's useless! You're wasting you time since you won't change anybody else's mind, you obviously won't change your own mind, and you're just going to turn in circles getting more and more angry...
Plus, Obama already explained his plan very clearly:
:rof:
Plus, Obama already explained his plan very clearly:
:rof:
Cuba
Junior Member
I like your attempt at sounding like an adult, but once again you have done no research, are completely wrong, and no idea what you are talking about. The GDP of the EU is over four and a half trillion dollars more than that of the US. It took me less than 30 seconds to verify this fact.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2195.html
This "unprecedented" crisis was far less severe than that faced by Ronald Reagan not too long ago, but look at it now. This administration certainly didn't hesitate to take advantage of a "good crisis" as Obama's COS made clear. Crack a book little buddy :thumbup:
All I can say is, wow. Mr. Bill calling the Dems on the carpet.
LOL I was looking for a good poster about arguing on the internet! that one's awesome!! :rof:
What strikes me about these political threads is how almost everyone speaks like they know the ultimate truth... "I am right you're wrong"... like any of this is black or white... like you would do a much better job than Obama and his administration at fixing the US and the World economy... like you know what's really going on by simply watching the news and reading the papers... or finding videos on youtube... I mean comon...
/rant over.
What strikes me about these political threads is how almost everyone speaks like they know the ultimate truth... "I am right you're wrong"... like any of this is black or white... like you would do a much better job than Obama and his administration at fixing the US and the World economy... like you know what's really going on by simply watching the news and reading the papers... or finding videos on youtube... I mean comon...
/rant over.
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OK. My mistake. Forgot to add the US GDP in the total G2O GDP before dividing. So, correction, the US GDP is around 32% of G20 GDP.
But that does not invalidate my point that the world can't afford to just walk away for the U.S.
But please enlighten to what Crisis you are talking about that Reagan faced that even came close to this? If you are talking about the Savings and Loan bailout or the farm mortgage issue, I don't remember that involving all the financial institutions of the world?
Also, I might add that the S&L crisis occurred on Reagan's watch when his administration relaxed regulations on their lending practices, and he only had a $1 trillion national debt when he came into office, not $11 trillion, most of it from Reagan, Bush 1 & 2. Clinton added some too but was running surpluses the last few years of his administration. Something the Republican Presidents never even attempted to do.
So be so kind as to reference your source as to the Reagan Crisis being more severe than the current one?
You really like to call names and wielding insults don't you? I have not called you any names or called you stupid as you have me. I have questioned your affinity for people like Glenn Beck who in my opinion is an empty suit. But your posts grow increasingly angry? Oh, you got me on the calculation error (at least I'm childish enough to admit it), therefore every point I've made is now invalid. Right?
Yet, I don't seem to remember you addressing any other comment I've made directly, just "your stupid", "don't know what I'm talking about", "crack a book little buddy."
You are right, I guess I should stop trying to sound like an Adult.
Have a nice day!
I don't know where the mod is on this, but as a mod, I'm going to tell those of you who are calling names and pointing fingers and starting in with snide remarks to COOL IT and keep this civil.
Voicing your opinion is fine, but making it personal is a violation of this forum's rules.
Please, act like adults and "share opinions." Never respond to someone else and say "You...." or I will close these threads as fast as anyone can start the nonsense.
The Management... My sig says it all.
Voicing your opinion is fine, but making it personal is a violation of this forum's rules.
Please, act like adults and "share opinions." Never respond to someone else and say "You...." or I will close these threads as fast as anyone can start the nonsense.
The Management... My sig says it all.
Jim Karam
Trying to Keep Up
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+1000. Rule number one that you are losing any reasoned debate is when you start attacking the person, rather than their positions. But then, I'm not sure they teach debating anymore.
However, I can tell you as a long term manager, if you behaved like this to co-workers, I'd have fired you all a long time ago. You need to get over the anger and rage and start doing things that will improve the situation. Often that means you have to just be civil until the next election because that's this country's only legitimate mechanism for change.
W
wrightme43
The mod was at work.
However I dont see anything that is getting out of hand. We are all adults. I do wish Oscar would read some, but he doesnt have to.
I promise promise promise none of my ideas come from fox news. I dont watch any of the news networks. They are only there to sell advertising, and the only reason for that is because they pay them. The news networks do not have my best intrest at heart.
However I dont see anything that is getting out of hand. We are all adults. I do wish Oscar would read some, but he doesnt have to.
I promise promise promise none of my ideas come from fox news. I dont watch any of the news networks. They are only there to sell advertising, and the only reason for that is because they pay them. The news networks do not have my best intrest at heart.