• Welcome to the Yamaha FZ6 Forums. Member registration disables ads and allows you to post and share. Register Here.

Global warming

  • Thread starter Thread starter formula154
  • Start date Start date
very good, balanced, and independent. Not sure how much I trust information that comes from a website called "junkscience" though.
 
Shafe716 said:
very good, balanced, and independent. Not sure how much I trust information that comes from a website called \"junkscience\" though.
Click to expand...

I don't really know enough about it to have an opinion but it makes sense to me. At least it shows that there are two sides to the issue.
 
Global warming (IMHO) is a silly idea. The facts just aren't adding up, and a lot of people are very cold this year. Climate change would be preferable, but it's changing all the time anyway (?)

It is about balance though, which mankind rather ubruptly unbalanced. But nature is bigger than we think, and even high CO2 levels will be auto corrected.

Amazing discovery of green algae which could save the world from global warming | Mail Online

Old science, iron particles causing algae blooms, BUT finding out that melting glaciers release iron casusing natural algae blooms is quite a surprise to some.

I don't doubt that we have buggered up the planet quite badly, but i do believe that global warming is another fear/uncertainty/doubt ploy, it's NOT science, it's based on computer models, and is merely a posibility that becomes more remote the closer you look at it.
 
I've been watching the history channel a lot, and their belief now is that the earths magnetic fields are starting to deteriorate or switch polarity. This weakens the protection the fields provide from cosmic ratiation and heat. This causes the temperature to rise...
Take it as you will.
 
I tend to agree that it's over hyped.

However I can only support reduction in CO2!!! ,- there is no doubt that we have to move away from fossil fuels (if nothing else be course they are running low ....).

However in the current debate (globally) it seams that you have to be a fanatic pro or con to participate. The middle way just don't seem to exist.

We have a Danish scientist who "dared" suggesting that we should put a price tag on everything do, - e.g. "What would it cost to remove Petrol" and compare it to "What would it cost to eliminate AIDS", and then look at the number of lives saved by each spend dollar ......
Basicly the conclusion from that would be that hunger and decease are greater issues than a couple of degrees temperature increase.

Still I believe that if everyone keep their mind on being eco-friendly everyday (stuff like when you get a new cage, at least consider one with better mileage) that would take us a long way.
 
To add a little lighter slant to the subject, We here in the North East quadrant are on the "polar effect" side of global warming, We now have longer, colder, snowier, winters, more rain in the summer, etc.

My conclusion is that because there is no direct benefit to us, I no longer support Global Warming, unless it changes our current climate to one similar to Arizona so we may ride year round;)
 
I agree, I think Global Warming is yet another scare.

What I think the Global Warming camp is missing on their sales job is pollution in general. I think that should be the focus and the focus should be on the developing part of the world; ie: Asia.

The US and Western Europe have the cleanest economies yet we, mainly the Europeans, have this huge guilt complex over their "carbon footprint". If I never hear that term again I'll be happy. I think the focus should be on BTU consumed vs. $ out put vs. pollution created. That is what should be looked at not a carbon tax. If production was looked at in those terms China, India and other "low cost regions" get smoked, no pun intended.

I have no problem with emission control systems on vehicles, factories, recycling plans, better farming and ranching techniqies,etc. All of those help reduce pollution with is good for everyone and the earth in general.

I've read a few stories about how smog from Asia is carried by the jet stream up to Alaska and down into the Western US. Then the UN has the gall to point fingers at the US and not the source of the pollution. Now don't get me wrong we, the US, need to keep working on improving air and water pollution. We aren't saints but we are much better than China and India and actually care.
 
Hellgate said:
I agree, I think Global Warming is yet another scare.

What I think the Global Warming camp is missing on their sales job is pollution in general. I think that should be the focus and the focus should be on the developing part of the world; ie: Asia.

The US and Western Europe have the cleanest economies yet we, mainly the Europeans, have this huge guilt complex over their \"carbon footprint\". If I never hear that term again I'll be happy. I think the focus should be on BTU consumed vs. $ out put vs. pollution created. That is what should be looked at not a carbon tax. If production was looked at in those terms China, India and other \"low cost regions\" get smoked, no pun intended.

I have no problem with emission control systems on vehicles, factories, recycling plans, better farming and ranching techniqies,etc. All of those help reduce pollution with is good for everyone and the earth in general.

I've read a few stories about how smog from Asia is carried by the jet stream up to Alaska and down into the Western US. Then the UN has the gall to point fingers at the US and not the source of the pollution. Now don't get me wrong we, the US, need to keep working on improving air and water pollution. We aren't saints but we are much better than China and India and actually care.
Click to expand...

Fair call, pollution in general is the real issue. Recycling is also a huge issue, and finally i think alternative cleaner energy sources, other than crude oil, should be a priority...but that aint going to happen quickly...too much money in oil! Money means power, and those in power, generally have an interest in oil...as it is the single biggest resource we consume as a planet!
 
Hellgate said:
I agree, I think Global Warming is yet another scare.

What I think the Global Warming camp is missing on their sales job is pollution in general. I think that should be the focus and the focus should be on the developing part of the world; ie: Asia.

The US and Western Europe have the cleanest economies yet we, mainly the Europeans, have this huge guilt complex over their \"carbon footprint\". If I never hear that term again I'll be happy. I think the focus should be on BTU consumed vs. $ out put vs. pollution created. That is what should be looked at not a carbon tax. If production was looked at in those terms China, India and other \"low cost regions\" get smoked, no pun intended.

I have no problem with emission control systems on vehicles, factories, recycling plans, better farming and ranching techniqies,etc. All of those help reduce pollution with is good for everyone and the earth in general.

I've read a few stories about how smog from Asia is carried by the jet stream up to Alaska and down into the Western US. Then the UN has the gall to point fingers at the US and not the source of the pollution. Now don't get me wrong we, the US, need to keep working on improving air and water pollution. We aren't saints but we are much better than China and India and actually care.
Click to expand...
Some great points made Pete, with which I could not agree with more.
One of the arguments I have heard used by the "Do gooders" is.
That the western world has had its industrial revolution and has only now started to clean up its act. We can't deny China or Asia the same right to become indusrialised and develop into global world players.
It's that whole worn out argument about the west trying to keep the rest of the world down.

Nelly
 
I don`t care what is happenening.

I have signed up for Global warming and would like to know when it is arriving in Denmark?

Because it is ØÅÆking freezing here at the moment.

Steve
 
Interesting topic!

I think what makes people so uncertain is that we're talking about a large-scale, long-term change. We're not wired to process this kind of information based on our direct experiences. We notice day-to-day patterns, but not subtle patterns over large distances. Nonetheless, we do have lots of ways of gathering data and testing ideas about climate change at large scales (testing both ideas about what, if anything, is happening, and about what might be causing it).

From a scientific perspective (only one way we know about the world - but I'm talking about empirical evidence here), the evidence is overwhelming that something unprecedented is happening. We've got recorded temperature measurements for a couple of hundred years and lots of independent methods of assessing temperature at longer time-scales (dendrochronology, ice cores, abundance of phytoplankton in fossils, pollen records) - all of which show rapid warming globally.

I'm not a climate change scientist, but I do study the ecology of communities and ecosystems in North and South America. I can tell you that we are seeing LOTS of evidence that warming is occuring (thousands and thousands of independent, peer reviewed journal articles also show effects of this warming). Tell someone along the northern coast of South America that climate change isn't real! They're LITERALLY DROWNING from sea-level change and altered rainfall patterns. Ever been to the Arctic? It's unbelieveable how much ice has disappeared in recent years.

Remember - a few degrees doesn't seem like much, but that's only from OUR perspective. In my own work, I've found evidence that a 2C increase in temperature can increase production of several nasty parasitic organisms by 100 times! That's something people in the places I work have noticed too.

If I had direct, large-scale, testable evidence that climate change was NOT happening, I'd be a very famous scientist. The evidence for climate change is stronger than that of nearly every major scientific principle I can think of (certainly much stronger than the evidence we base most of our medical decisions on). Scientists are prone to bias like everyone else, but the methods used are scrutinized to a very high degree. You CAN test ideas about climate change and make predictions that are testable - just like as in every other area of science. The evidence is alarming.

The problem with climate change is that even if the more conservative estimates are correct, we can't wait around to see what happens if we want to do anything about it. It's true that the Earth has had many more extreme climate events in the geological past, and that we might persist no matter what happens, but the world could be a very different place.
 
Nelly said:
Some great points made Pete, with which I could not agree with more.
One of the arguments I have heard used by the \\"Do gooders\\" is.
That the western world has had its industrial revolution and has only now started to clean up its act. We can't deny China or Asia the same right to become indusrialised and develop into global world players.
It's that whole worn out argument about the west trying to keep the rest of the world down.

Nelly
Click to expand...

Are you suggesting that global warming is some mass conspiracy to keep us as a dominant power?

I suppose that could be true if this was largely a political creation, but it's not. Trust me - thousands of scientists working in independent labs aren't all collaborating together for the sake of some government plot. It just doesn't work that way.

Nature doesn't care what the score is or who's in charge.

Also, I'm not necessarily a big fan of the UN, but our PER CAPITA consumption of resources is unbelieveable. FAR GREATER than what China or India consume.
 
global warming does not exist.....

1. The largest glacier (in Alaska) is growing at an exponential rate and global warming advocates don't know why

2. The earth like any other thing goes through cycles and being a slight bit warmer and then colder year to year is normal

3. Global warming was invented by the inventor of the internet, Al Gore, i say that jokingly because in my opinion global warming is a way to make money.


my $.02
 
D-Mac said:
The problem with climate change is that even if the more conservative estimates are correct, we can't wait around to see what happens if we want to do anything about it. It's true that the Earth has had many more extreme climate events in the geological past, and that we might persist no matter what happens, but the world could be a very different place.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree BUT:

As we are only humans, we have to prioritize; we just can not do everything at once (resources, both $ and man-hours).
Therefore we HAVE to take a global look on ALL the problems on our beloved planet, - and figure out which ones are the most important to solve first.
What seems to be driving the global warming debate in public, is the fact that so many "famous" people and the media have a lot of focus on it. No one seems to be interested in actually making a prioritized list of what problems actually exists in the world ..............
I know is not populare to e.g. state that getting rid of hunger in Africa will save more lives and ressources than preventing Global warming, - but its not just a statement, - it's a fact!!!
So IMO the politicians of the western world needs to get of the overpaid asses and get in gear, instead of just talking about how the world is falling apart.


(Just had to get it of my chest :) )
 
thirty_too said:
global warming does not exist.....

1. The largest glacier (in Alaska) is growing at an exponential rate and global warming advocates don't know why

2. The earth like any other thing goes through cycles and being a slight bit warmer and then colder year to year is normal

3. Global warming was invented by the inventor of the internet, Al Gore, i say that jokingly because in my opinion global warming is a way to make money.


my $.02
Click to expand...

But saying that pollution is NOT a problem for our planet, - that just the ostrich approach, - If I close my eyes the danger goes away ....... NOT!
 
Fz6Sa said:
I don't disagree BUT:

As we are only humans, we have to prioritize; we just can not do everything at once (resources, both $ and man-hours).
Therefore we HAVE to take a global look on ALL the problems on our beloved planet, - and figure out which ones are the most important to solve first.
What seems to be driving the global warming debate in public, is the fact that so many \"famous\" people and the media have a lot of focus on it. No one seems to be interested in actually making a prioritized list of what problems actually exists in the world ..............
I know is not populare to e.g. state that getting rid of hunger in Africa will save more lives and ressources than preventing Global warming, - but its not just a statement, - it's a fact!!!
So IMO the politicians of the western world needs to get of the overpaid asses and get in gear, instead of just talking about how the world is falling apart.


(Just had to get it of my chest :) )
Click to expand...

You've raised some excellent points.

I agree the celebrities are the ones taking climate change to the public. I actually hate that. It's probably because:

(1) scientists don't get off of their asses enough to get out of the lab and actually justify what we're using tax dollars for (our fault)

(2) the public doesn't understand how science works or what the science means (again, the fault of scientists in part, but also the fault of our educational system perhaps and the preference of the public to get their information in sound bites and celebrities).

Your example about feeding the hungry is a good point. However, consider that global warming IS likely going to be a major contributor of famine, and then the equation gets complicated...... is it better to keep handing out food or to address the underlying problem? Think about how much climate change is likely going to affect issues such as food availability and water. A lot of political problems are linked to these issues. People fight over resources.

The economy is a major problem right now too. But what if we could solve two problems at the same time? What if we could also solve the current energy crisis by addressing the climate change problem. Sure - some of the money would go directly toward the environment, but we could prioritize projects that have both an immediate and long-term gain. The cost would be lower and the return might ultimately be greater.

We do need to look for win-win scenarios first.

Al Gore is a moron - I don't like the messenger, but the message is correct.
 
thirty_too said:
global warming does not exist.....

1. The largest glacier (in Alaska) is growing at an exponential rate and global warming advocates don't know why


2. The earth like any other thing goes through cycles and being a slight bit
3. Global warming was invented by the inventor of the internet, Al Gore, i say that jokingly because in my opinion global warming is a way to make money.



my $.02
Click to expand...


(1) First- scientists are not 'advocates' per se. At least not when they're functioning as scientists. We don't say "let's go prove global warming exists" we say "I wonder why that Glacier is expanding/not expanding"?

Climate change isn't a simple, universal phenomenon to explain every event in every place. Some places will get wetter, some colder, some dryer, some warmer. OVERALL, it's getting hotter though. We've got tons of data on that. This is not an excuse. The scale to look at is annual, decadal temperature. Not day-to-day temperature in one place. The trends do matter, but they're exactly that.

There are also cases where scientists are wrong about why glaciers are retreating too. For example, Kilimanjaro (sp?) is losing it's snow, but apparently the best data shows that it's actually NOT because of climate change. This does not mean by itself that climate change isn't happening, it just means it doesn't explain every event. There are LOTS of things that determine climate. The concern is that climate change has inceased both the mean (net) temperature AND the amount of variation in many places.


(2) Yes. This is true. However, climate change is something that is happening on top of everything else that always happens and will continue to happen. We have seasons too, but that doesn't mean that climate change isn't real just because it's cooler in the winter than during the summer....

You have to take a bigger picture to see the evidence, but it's there. Nature wasn't designed to be easy for humans to understand.

(3) It is a way to make money for some. It's also a way to lose money for others.
 
D-Mac said:
Are you suggesting that global warming is some mass conspiracy to keep us as a dominant power?

I suppose that could be true if this was largely a political creation, but it's not. Trust me - thousands of scientists working in independent labs aren't all collaborating together for the sake of some government plot. It just doesn't work that way.

Nature doesn't care what the score is or who's in charge.

Also, I'm not necessarily a big fan of the UN, but our PER CAPITA consumption of resources is unbelieveable. FAR GREATER than what China or India consume.
Click to expand...

No not a conspiracy our governments a too uncoordinated for that. Also I never stated that so don't read into what I wrote. Besides humans are terrible a planning and organizing things that are supposed to be secret; someone leaks everytime. My hunch is the scientists are reading other's studies, are sold by concept and want to believe, and while using scientific process are interperting their findings towards the GW therory. In addition the media likes the idea and it makes great press; if it bleeds it leads. GW makes great headlines.

Look back over time and consider the "true" things that were later to be found false. Flat earth, leaches, witches, etc. I was reading an article about Mars in Nation Geo this week and the common belief in the 1890s was the "canals" on Mars were built by Martians. This was taken for granted until about the 1920s/30s. Our understanding of our world changes and evolves over time and we are gaining a better understand of it.

Humans love to rush to the extreme conculsions on pretty much everything. The value of house will keep going up, China will consume all of the oil in the world, oil will hit $200 a barrel, etc, etc. We will all drown when the ice caps melt.

My take is the "Global Warming" issue is blown out of proportion and is not as extreme as many make it out to be.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

A
Bad Idle and bogging, checked a lot already.
Replies
6
Views
3K
AirTractor
A
grahammarsden
Urgent for UK Members
Replies
2
Views
394
grahammarsden
grahammarsden
Sandseller
FZ6 S2 – Dash/cluster dies randomly,
Replies
18
Views
1K
tuning-forks
tuning-forks
grcamna7
Hi, first post:been shopping and thought I had an FZ6..
2 3
Replies
49
Views
5K
grcamna7
grcamna7
Gary in NJ
Miscellaneous Ramblings
Replies
3
Views
933
Ben sIII
B
Back
Top