Crashed this morning

[christod1]

Glad your ok. I hope you feel better soon...

 

[VEGASRIDER]

I'd tend to agree with John on this one Ken. Sometimes blowing the horn can distract the driver and cause them to panic and hit the brakes. Certain situations would warrant no use of the horn if there's a slight chance you can escape if the cager stays the course. Other times, it can save you and I also agree with that aspect. This goes back to your original thought process, that being when you should and shouldn't use the horn and the thought process involved with both.

The only trouble is, we often have milli-seconds to decipher that thought and decide.

That's exactly what I want the horn to do! I want the driver to STOP! It will allow me to get by. If the driver is allowed to continue on it's course, its going to end up as a collision. Of all the crash threads I have read, everyone of them has resulted in an accident because the cager remained to continue on it's course which then resulted in an impact or rider going down.

Once again, if the horn is used at the correct time, which is ahead of time so that the driver can correct, not the point where it's too late for the driver to do anything. If that's the case, we are all at a point to BRAKE and PRAY.

I'm sorry for saying this over and over, but I am a firm believer in warning the other driver First. Just like a train going thru a RR crossing or a speeding Fire Engine going thru an intersection. They use of their air horn well ahead of time to warn other drivers, not after the fact once they see something in it's path in which it could possibly be too late and impact will occur.

 

[hoser183]

Glad you are OK buddy.

It seriously ticks me off that the police wouldn't come. One time my car got hit in a parking lot (when I was in school) and it wrecked the bumber and tailight. The car (a big boat of a vehicle) that actually was parked right next to me had front end damage at the same height as the damage to my bumper. I called the police. They said they wouldn't come, and for me to take down the licence plate and file a report. I did and they went to the guys house. Turns out he was 80 years old and said he had NEVER EVER been to that parking lot in his life. Well then how did I match the vehicle type and plate number?
I had to pay $1500 to fix the damage because the police wouldn't come out. P*SS** me off still! Now I always keep one of those cheapie disposable cameras in my glovebox in all our vehicles. And usually when I am out on the motorbike I have one with me anyways (since I am a photographer by profession).

 

[boo68]

Glad to hear you are 'okay' rest up and take it easy so you can be 100% soon. If you do not feel better soon.. maybe you should be checked out to be sure the pain isn't something other than pulls.. could be tears or breaks.. my husband walked around for 9 months on a broken leg because the docs that read the MRI said he had bruised tendons.. that turned out to be torn ACL. take care,

Deb

 

[steveindenmark]

You brooke your bike....is bike not property?

I have taken to wearing a vis-vest. The whole prospective of other road users change. I never seem to get into close scrapes anymore and drivers give me much more room. A motorcycle policeman even waved at me the other day.

I think most of the accidents are because they just do not see us. Make yourself bright.

Steve

 

[Tailgate]

If I sense that another driver (about to exit driveway, parking lot, etc.) is not making/has not made eye contact with me just as I am about to pass by I will sound a courtesy horn blast or two. I can see a lot of situations where a horn can aid in alerting/reminding another motorist of one's presence. Once, the horn is my van was broken; I didn't like driving around while knowing that I didn't have a horn. I felt much more vulnerable. In fact, I would imagine that in some accident situations a half-decent attorney (or somebody arguing the case) would bring horn usage into the debate, i.e., "why didn't you use your horn, were you not 10% negligent in not using your horn? Weren't you partially responsible for not having used your horn? Explain why you didn't use your horn" I dunno, it just seems to me that if one uses a horn in a defensive manner that this is even MORE ammo in a court case/police report if there is an accident due to somebody else's negligence.

 

[necrotimus]

GLAD YOU ARE OK

Just so everyone is aware in most desnly populated areas the police will not respond to a "minor" traffic accident unless there are injuries. Obviously the definition of minor and injury is very subjective.

You should call both your and their insurance company. If their insurance company admits their driver is at fault then it may be beneficial to work straight through them. Your insurance company will want the deductable up front regardless of fault until they work out who was at fault between the companies. This is why it is very important to look for witnesses whenever possible because if the other person is a tool and won't admit fault then its just your word against theirs.

 

[oldtimer]

Call me an idiot, :spank:, but I use my horn quite a lot. If I see a car on the side of the road and I can't establish eye contact with them or am convinced they see me, I honk the horn a few times to make sure my presense is known.

:Flash:

 

[Kilbane83]

That sucks alot man. Glad you're relatively ok though.

No property damage? Sounds like your bike got fubar'd to me. That's crazy I've never heard of cops not showing up to a accident scene. How can they file a police report w/o having a cop to gather evidence? Hell cops show up here for minor crashes all the time.. not saying they don't take thier sweet ass time, but still they show up.

 

[Nelly]

I am glad you are just bruised and battered a little. its very difficult to observe, anticipate and predict everyones intentions especially when turning in traffic.
Not sure what the law there is but in the UK it appoints blame to the person in the rear regardless of the situation.
Heal up soon.

Neil

 

[Nelly]

That's exactly what I want the horn to do! I want the driver to STOP! It will allow me to get by. If the driver is allowed to continue on it's course, its going to end up as a collision. Of all the crash threads I have read, everyone of them has resulted in an accident because the cager remained to continue on it's course which then resulted in an impact or rider going down.

Once again, if the horn is used at the correct time, which is ahead of time so that the driver can correct, not the point where it's too late for the driver to do anything. If that's the case, we are all at a point to BRAKE and PRAY.

I'm sorry for saying this over and over, but I am a firm believer in warning the other driver First. Just like a train going thru a RR crossing or a speeding Fire Engine going thru an intersection. They use of their air horn well ahead of time to warn other drivers, not after the fact once they see something in it's path in which it could possibly be too late and impact will occur.

I am in agreement with Vegas here. Giving the other driver the horn has saved my but on countless occasions.

"Do the Vegas" it will save your skin.

Nelly

 

[FZ1inNH]

That's exactly what I want the horn to do! I want the driver to STOP! It will allow me to get by. If the driver is allowed to continue on it's course, its going to end up as a collision. Of all the crash threads I have read, everyone of them has resulted in an accident because the cager remained to continue on it's course which then resulted in an impact or rider going down.

This is true for some cases. My point is, it's not true for ALL cases. In this case, as stated by the OP, had he used the horn and stopped the driver, he would have T-Boned the car rather than glance off the rear hatch as he did, thus resulting in, likely, a worse accident for both parties.

I use my horn when it is appropriate but there are times where I don't. My escape is to let the driver continue while I skirt around the trailing end of the vehicle. If I blow the horn and stop them, I've just made my escape MUCH more difficult with now two EXTREME swerve options rather than a continually growing option as the cager moves onward.

I'm not disagreeing with you and the use of the horn, rather, I am stating this was not the time to use it and your choice, in that split second, could make or break your escape route should you panic the driver. :thumbup:

 

[Cuba]

First, really glad you're ok.

Second, a car cuts you off, you hit it, fly over your bike, bike gets smashed up, you get bruised up and THE COPS WOULDN'T COME??? What the hell is that BS? Man, I would be livid. For nothing else, I want a cop there if I'm in an accident that's not my fault to get the driver cited and at least an on-scene accident report filled out.


Are they all too busy collecting overtime waving flags at construction sites? (Sorry if a cop reads this but it drives me crazy that Mass has a law saying that only cops can be flag wavers, and at overtime to boot).

I lived in Wellesley, Watertown, and Waltham for quite some time. Cops standing around watching potholes get filled is f*cking nuts.

 

[sasper]

I just contacted the Orthodontist to hopefully get in touch with the guy that witnessed the accident. I wasn't sure if they would give me his information or anything, but the guy on the phone is a fellow biker (yes!) and thinks he knows who the witness was. He's contacting him now to see if it's okay for me to have his contact information.

Hopefully it works out!!

 

[paul1149]

Glad you're ok. Thank God. But I can't believe the cops wouldn't come out. Injuries, including chronic problems, don't always manifest right away, and the police report is crucial. If you went down on the ground an accident report is warranted and should be mandatory. Besides, there was property damage - to your bike. I don't understand. Good luck.

 

[sportrider]

Glad your OK!!! freakin cagers!!! I just had one pull out in front of me today. I had the right of way he made a left off a side street directly in front of me. I saw it coming so I was ready and had slowed so I could throw my hands up at him. he gave me the "I'm sorry" wave. hopefully he learned something from that.

 

[hedmisten]

Glad you are okay. Had a similar situation today, but was able to brake and quickly accelerate around the car at fault. Let us know how the bike and yourself turn out.

 

[mstewar1]

Ouch. Enjoy the meds.

Hmm, if the insurance company totals your bike, phaps you could get it for cheap and build a nekked ride...hmmm.

I'm curious as to how you actually fell -- head first, on your side, did you roll, did you stick your hands out? How'd the jeans work? What might you choose to wear instead of what you had on? Since you weren't zipped together (jacket to pants) any issues with road rash on the back? Sorry for the zillion q's.

Heal quickly and get back on the bike.

 

[VEGASRIDER]

If I sense that another driver (about to exit driveway, parking lot, etc.) is not making/has not made eye contact with me just as I am about to pass by I will sound a courtesy horn blast or two. I can see a lot of situations where a horn can aid in alerting/reminding another motorist of one's presence. Once, the horn is my van was broken; I didn't like driving around while knowing that I didn't have a horn. I felt much more vulnerable. In fact, I would imagine that in some accident situations a half-decent attorney (or somebody arguing the case) would bring horn usage into the debate, i.e., \"why didn't you use your horn, were you not 10% negligent in not using your horn? Weren't you partially responsible for not having used your horn? Explain why you didn't use your horn\" I dunno, it just seems to me that if one uses a horn in a defensive manner that this is even MORE ammo in a court case/police report if there is an accident due to somebody else's negligence.

You make a great point there about the court thing, but I'm not an lawyer but it would seem make your case much more stronger.

As far as riding or driving without a horn, I feel the sameway. Absolutely naked, vulnerable and defenceless. There is no way to effectively alert the driver in an emergency situation.

This is true for some cases. My point is, it's not true for ALL cases. In this case, as stated by the OP, had he used the horn and stopped the driver, he would have T-Boned the car rather than glance off the rear hatch as he did, thus resulting in, likely, a worse accident for both parties.

I use my horn when it is appropriate but there are times where I don't. My escape is to let the driver continue while I skirt around the trailing end of the vehicle. If I blow the horn and stop them, I've just made my escape MUCH more difficult with now two EXTREME swerve options rather than a continually growing option as the cager moves onward.

I'm not disagreeing with you and the use of the horn, rather, I am stating this was not the time to use it and your choice, in that split second, could make or break your escape route should you panic the driver. :thumbup:

It's very difficult to place ourselves in Sasper's situation because we weren't there. But from the information that was provided, we can only discuss what other options he had or what corrective measure he took. This is what makes this forum so great, is that we can learn and annaylize from everyone's posts, as others will agree and dissagree.

From what I have gathered here, everyone will react and execute differenty which most likely will end up with different results.
Just too bad we don't have a motorycle simulator like for pilots to see which corrective action would have been the best.

Cali-rider choose to trust his own natural riding skills and abilities as far as how to react whenever a cager is at fault rather than alerting the other driver with his horn. Most members here on this forum, including myself are not at his skill level to out manuerver themselves in very difficult emergency situations. I have seen him ride on the past two group rides and he is very good. Therefore, I have compensated my lack of the skills and abilities by being able to remember using the horn is an alternative, if used early enough so that no corrective action needs to be taken or certainly, not as drastic. So for John to say that using the horn is 99.9% useless in defensive situations is not a fair or accurate statement for most riders.

Steve's corrective measure was probably excecuted by his first reaction to brake hard and try to go around, which almost was successful by him just clipping the corner of the car. What I was saying is that if the car did not have an opportunity to complete it's U turn by using the horn, there could be a possiblity that you would have been able to continue on in your lane or perhaps flicking the bike harder and go onto the opposite lane. The opposite lane was clear, since the car was making a U turn but I know it's difficult to determine that at that moment. T-boning the car was mentioned, I think this is more likely to happen if you both continue the same course.

 

[sasper]

Ouch. Enjoy the meds.

Hmm, if the insurance company totals your bike, phaps you could get it for cheap and build a nekked ride...hmmm.

I'm curious as to how you actually fell -- head first, on your side, did you roll, did you stick your hands out? How'd the jeans work? What might you choose to wear instead of what you had on? Since you weren't zipped together (jacket to pants) any issues with road rash on the back? Sorry for the zillion q's.

Heal quickly and get back on the bike.

I'll have to see how the situation with my work project out here pans out. My current contract is up on October 18th, and I need to have the bike gone by then. If I get "extended" again for a while, I'll try and buy the bike back and have a lot of fun with it (naked for sure!).

I'm not sure exactly how I fell, but judging from my bruises and pains, I think I have an idea. I went over the top of my handlebars, my left knee clipped the back of his car (causing the dent to his hatch), my bike went over top of itself and hit its left side, just missing his car, and slid a bit on its side.

I came down on my right hip and elbow first. I don't think my hands were out, as they were uninjured. I do have a nasty bruise on my hip. Luckily, I had slowed down enough where I didn't slide on the pavement at all, so no roadrash! None of my gear is torn up whatsoever. I think it was just a slam into the pavement. I'm glad I had armor in my elbows and shoulders, or else I think they would have been injured more than there were.

Vegas and Cali -- I appreciate the debate between the both of you, and agree with both of your opinions. Let's just say that things could have been *much worse* than they are, and I'm as fortunate as someone could be after the situation took place. Of course I would have rather avoided the crash entirely, but there are lessons to be learned for everyone here. Maybe it will benefit us all in the long run :rockon: