Bike won't start......AGAIN!!

The short: I'm on to my 3rd battery in 10 months. Bike doesn't have enough juice to start.

The long: Bought my used 09 last September. It still had its original battery. All was fine until the winter. Didn't ride the FZ for a month and it wouldn't turn over. Didn't know about bump starting at the time and tried to jump start it off my truck......with the engine running....DOH!! Burnt a fuse in the process Bought a new battery from Batteries Plus. It lasted for a month and then I had the same problem. I bought my 3rd battery from Amazon 2 months ago and now I'm having the same problem again.

My volt-meter says the battery is at 10.6 volts. Is it still an issue with the battery or could I have screwed up the alternator when I tried to jump start it? Any ideas?

My guess is your stator is fried. Recrifier / regulator could be an issue too, but start by checking the stator.
Charge the battery enough to start the bike (or bump start the bike).
With the bike running, measure the voltage. With revs up at 4k, it should be reading around 14. I believe it should not go over 14 if the rectifier is working (someone please correct me if I'm wrong).
More advice is on the way from people far more knowledgeable than I am, when it comes to electrical demons, but that's where I would start if I had the same issue.

Following the above advice is a good step. With the running auto involved the regulator rectifier is often damaged as it is sinking the current load from the running vehicle and overheats - damaging itself. Thus it no longer outputs DC current.

You'll need to disconnect the RR and measure its output. I can't look it op, but I think its supposed to be over 30 volts. Do a search on testing the RR and there should be some threads on it.

+1 on the above, the battery just isn't getting charged, no matter how many new batteries your put in.

Something got fried when you jump started it with the truck running.

Do the above mentioned test, A fully charged, static battery, should be aboud 12.8 volts. the engine cranked up and idling should go up a little, 4-5K RPM's about 14 volts.


Here ya go, from a sticky:

http://www.600riders.com/forum/gara...2-condensed-wtf-wrong-my-charging-system.html

You may have toasted your regulator rectifier. You can easily test your stator to rule it out. The following is a resistance test, engine not running:Unplug the stator and put your ohm meter on 1x range. You should get .2 to .3 ohms on all 3 legs of the stator. An ohms test from each stator leg to ground should show wide open, no resistance at all. If this passes the test. and you don't see upwards of 13.5 - 14.0 VDC with the rpm at 2000 and above the regulator/rectifier may be bad. Best to totally charge the battery and have it load tested because even if it was new it can now be damaged and not hold a proper charge anymore. If you get a new battery make sure it is totally charged and not put in service until it has. Some batteries require this full charge before used and if you don't the battery will fail to give proper service and have a shortened life.

The search on our forum has countless posts on charging system info and procedure.

Good luck and let us know how you do!

Thanks for all of the fast replies everyone! :thumbup: I'll try everything tomorrow when I get home from work and see what I get. Follow-up post tomorrow night.

ryanag said:

Thanks for all of the fast replies everyone! :thumbup: I'll try everything tomorrow when I get home from work and see what I get. Follow-up post tomorrow night.

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Thought y'all could do with this

>>CLICKY<<


Lurch

could be that it's charging it a little, but not as much as it should be, hence it's ok for a couple of months

FWIW I've never had to replace the battery on mine, despite being laid up for several weeks at a time in cold weather, and suffering a broken stator. I guess YMMV though

Sounds like classic rectifier. I had mine replaced very early on under warranty, and supposedly its a pretty common issue. From the battery standpoint, it'll read a good voltage (12.8~), but leave your lights on or load the system a bit and the battery will suddenly die.

A good honest dealer (warning, sarcasm coming) will try to sell you a gel battery every year, because its a little harder diagnosing the rectifier. I never understood the process, but a load tester is definitely required.

Good luck!!

With an ohm meter measure the three white wires to the stator;
1 - 2, 1 - 3, and 2 - 3
Stator coil resistance 0.22–0.34 Ω at 20°C (68°F)

If it passes this test it indicates its not OPEN but that doesn't mean it will work as it may be shorted, thus the voltage must be checked too. I would also test EACH WHITE WIRE for OHMs to Engine Ground to confirm no shorts to ground.

The downside is the FSM does not state the actual raw stator output only the RR output of 14V @ 5000RPM. What is the output you measure? Also, I'd disconnect the headlamps and repeat this test. Record the values at idle and 5000 RPM.

I could be mistaken here but the stator output is AC and should be at least twice the DC output. i.e. roughly 30VAC. So set the meter to AC and you should be able to tell if the stators coils are intact for voltage output, but this test does not confirm it has adequate current output.

FinalImpact said:

With an ohm meter measure the three white wires to the stator;
1 - 2, 1 - 3, and 2 - 3
Stator coil resistance 0.22–0.34 Ω at 20°C (68°F)

If it passes this test it indicates its not OPEN but that doesn't mean it will work as it may be shorted, thus the voltage must be checked too. I would also test EACH WHITE WIRE for OHMs to Engine Ground to confirm no shorts to ground.

The downside is the FSM does not state the actual raw stator output only the RR output of 14V @ 5000RPM. What is the output you measure? Also, I'd disconnect the headlamps and repeat this test. Record the values at idle and 5000 RPM.

I could be mistaken here but the stator output is AC and should be at least twice the DC output. i.e. roughly 30VAC. So set the meter to AC and you should be able to tell if the stators coils are intact for voltage output, but this test does not confirm it has adequate current output.

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The reason the service manual doesn't give a raw stator output for troubleshooting is because of variables in impedance and frequency versus rpm. Even if you set a specific rpm, you would need to bring a specific load to the stator winding. Different meters may give different measurements depending on the meter's bandwidth capability to measure alternating current. In addition we want to see voltage times current to discern the power output of each winding. To do this we'd also need to measure the amperage @ voltage.

We could say, at 4000 RPM, with a Fluke model number **** with a highwattage, x ohms resistance, measuring x amps, your stator should show this voltage. You could also, instead, measure the stator voltage while still connected to the system but we don't know the condition of the battery and regulator/rectifier so the load would vary.

The ohm test is a fast, easy and pretty accurate way of establishing the condition of the stator winding. It's almost a, "Go/No Go" test!

Results so far:

Battery at rest = 12.4 V
Battery at 4000 rpm = 13.8 V

Regulator/rectifier (red lead at positive and black lead at negative on the actual rectifier)
- 12.3 V at idle with only low beams on
- 12.1 V at idle with high beams and accessory lights on
- 14.1 V at 2000 rpm with lights on/off

I didn't open the engine cover to get at the stator to test it yet. Do I need to? To my very novice knowledge of automotive electrical systems, it seems like the battery is getting the correct voltage returned to it to charge the battery. Please weigh in

Also, I tested the resistance across the three white leads from the stator to the R/R. My voltmeter doesn't go down to small ohm readings but I was able to get rough readings of 0.4 ohms between all three lines.

I just went out on a repair on a Honda Repsol CBR1000rr today.
Battery was dying and there was no charging. I tested the stator and it was good. Although the battery wasn't fully charged it had plenty of cranking amps to start the bike so as a general test it seemed good enough. The culprit looked like the regulator/rectifier. From personal and collective experience of others I decided to check the output plug of the R/R before we ordered a new one. Sure enough it was badly burned (see attached). Got rid of the plug and hardwired a repair solution. The bike is now charging like a champ.

Motogiro, I quickly went out and took a look at the connection. Looks perfect.

Cliff, not sure I'd this is valid or not, but his bike appears to be charging a low battery as at optimal charge above 70F, it should be 12.7 - 12.9 volts fully charged so my question is this; would it be a valid test to look for AC on the output when the voltage is low? If we measured and found say more than 50mvAC, could we say the RR is bad? I.e. bad diodes?

Ryan did the bike start on its own w/the starter?
This is just a thought but moving and disconnecting electrical contacts can in itself be a repair. So the test is, will raise (charge) the battery with the load of the lights or will it loose ground. Time will tell but a spirited ride of 15min or so should raise the voltage if underway 95% of the time.

FinalImpact said:

Cliff, not sure I'd this is valid or not, but his bike appears to be charging a low battery as at optimal charge above 70F, it should be 12.7 - 12.9 volts fully charged so my question is this; would it be a valid test to look for AC on the output when the voltage is low? If we measured and found say more than 50mvAC, could we say the RR is bad? I.e. bad diodes?

Ryan did the bike start on its own w/the starter?
This is just a thought but moving and disconnecting electrical contacts can in itself be a repair. So the test is, will raise (charge) the battery with the load of the lights or will it loose ground. Time will tell but a spirited ride of 15min or so should raise the voltage if underway 95% of the time.

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I think that's a very valid question! You could have a bad diode/s and that would decrease DC output from the charging system. Evidence might be larger ripple than normal on the DC side of things. I don't know what the acceptable ripple would be and with a large capacitor like a battery would be, it would probably filter/mask any ripple pretty well. Maybe look for reverse biasing on the R/R?

If you look at a known good system you might see the difference in the waveform when you have an anomaly.
Now I want a good O scope! :spank:

Motogiro said:

I think that's a very valid question! You could have a bad diode/s and that would decrease DC output from the charging system. Evidence might be larger ripple than normal on the DC side of things. I don't know what the acceptable ripple would be and with a large capacitor like a battery would be, it would probably filter/mask any ripple pretty well. Maybe look for reverse biasing on the R/R?

If you look at a known good system you might see the difference in the waveform when you have an anomaly.
Now I want a good O scope! :spank:

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As you know I'm a pack rat. I have two; one digital and one analog w/crt. Neither get used often. PM me if interested. CRT isn't the most portable but could use a new home....

Back on topic; I should drag one down and get a reading from all the sensors. It could be entertaining if nothing else! Been contemplating Coil over plug for fiz but can't find a suitable ignition module to use on four coils! Sorry, easily distracted tonight....
Anyway a hand held DMM should offer some insight about the system health. That I can do (AC reading...)

Just as a side for for Randy and Cliff.

I have my idle purposly set at 1,000 RPM's, have the BD43 dual headlight mod as well.

At 1,000 RPM's, I'm getting just a tad over 12.9/13 volts, (just beginning to charge).


Also, something NOT ASKED, what RPM IS THE BIKE IDLING AT WARM??? Obviously too low, it won't charge (which his isn't doing at idle).

Final: Yes, the bike started on its own. I charged the battery up Sunday night and did all the testing Monday afternoon. It started on its own about 4 times total during all of the testing. I plan to take the bike to work tomorrow so I should find out Wednesday afternoon if the bike will start so I can get home

Motogiro: You lost me :BLAA:

Townsend: I also have the dual headlight mod. I'll have to start her up again this afternoon to take a closer look at the idle rpms.