More invisible than usual?

oaks · Apr 25, 2014

This seems to be the trendy way to try and kill me this season -- the third time this month someone has pulled out in front of me with seemingly good visibility.

[vimeo]92942205[/vimeo]

Do I need to invest in high viz gear?

Are dual low beams messing with drivers' distance perception?

I was two seconds behind the white car going about 40 MPH. Not far enough?

Question to myself: why didn't I use the brakes? There wasn't much of an escape route in that situation. To the right, onto the grass before the guard rail, maybe.

mnuttall87 · Apr 25, 2014

I see your problem -- it shows you are in Maryland. This is just typical of Maryland drivers....

Source: work in Bethesda and this happens daily.

oaks · Apr 25, 2014

mnuttall87 said:
I see your problem -- it shows you are in Maryland. This is just typical of Maryland drivers....

Source: work in Bethesda and this happens daily.

Unfortunately true. And probably the reason I'll ultimately give up riding until I move out of the Baltimore-Washington corridor.

mnuttall87 · Apr 25, 2014

I ride from Alexandria to Bethesda every single day. You unfortunately just have to assume that nobody sees you and be prepared to react to it. I wouldn't give up riding over it, but you're already doing yourself a favor by running that camera while you are out.

odachi13 · Apr 25, 2014

Icon Mil-Spec Vest - I got one of these last October and it makes such a difference. It's amazing quality heavy weight mesh. You see cars start pulling out then stopping suddenly because they see the vest. Fun to watch cage passengers heads wobble when they are caught off guard by the drivers sudden breaking!
Only downside is people think I'm a copper so they have an annoying habbit of driving just under the speed limit infront of me - but atleast they saw me!

Erci · Apr 25, 2014

High visibility stuff is a great way to improve your odds of being seen.
Having said that, I've been wearing a high vis vest for years and I get cars merging into me / pulling out in front of me on nearly every ride (NJ!)
Of course I have no way to know how many did NOT pull out in front of me because they were able to see me early enough, but anything I can do to stack the odds in my favor.. worth it!

Your following distance looked fine.. the driver certainly had plenty of time to see you. One thing you can try in those types of situations (if YOU spot the driver early enough) is the weave side to side. A moving headlight is easier to spot than a steadily approaching one. But as with anything else, don't count on it to be a guaranteed way of being seen.

It also looks like you did the right thing by not braking. You had enough time and there was enough room on the right for you to speed up, even if the driver hadn't stopped.

oaks · Apr 25, 2014

Respect for doing that commute, mnuttall87. I made the drive from Manassas to NW DC years ago and vowed never again. I'm lucky to have a 10 mile commute on comparatively quiet roads around the BWI area these days.

Excellent idea re the hi viz vest. One will soon be part of my wardrobe.

2nd childhood · Apr 25, 2014

When I'm approaching a situation like that, my first instinct is to always cover the horn and (more importantly) the brake, but also get prepared to roll the throttle. I don't think you did anything wrong, this is just all too typical of a cage looking and if they don't see a car or truck, they don't see anything.

mnuttall87 · Apr 25, 2014

This guy just went on sale today, $95 shipped:

http://www.motorcyclegear.com/stree...+Good+Deals+Today!;++More+New+Product+Reviews

Erci · Apr 25, 2014

mnuttall87 said:
This guy just went on sale today, $95 shipped:

http://www.motorcyclegear.com/stree...+Good+Deals+Today!;++More+New+Product+Reviews

My next jacket will be high vis. The benefit of a vest though: works over any jacket :thumbup:

shannim · Apr 25, 2014

Something I do when approaching an intersection where I can see a car trying to pull out is to do what I call a "bee dance." Do small swerves left and right to make your lights move. If they are looking for cross traffic, this will catch their attention. It helps even more if you have really bright LED auxiliary lights.

garmie · Apr 25, 2014

Thanks for the excellent video. New riders like me can learn a lot from this type of example. Seems like the situation was textbook.

VEGASRIDER · Apr 25, 2014

I would invest in a louder horn!

But a great illustration on when to use your horn and what it can do, it can be a great defensive tool if used and used properly, which is before and not after the fact when it's too late. Kudos for also knowing how, where and what to look for. Great job!

Is that you in the picture dressed in all black? Just because you ride a Ninja doesn't mean you have to dress like one. Okay, you may not ride a Ninja, but you get the point. All black is not very visible.

oaks · Apr 25, 2014

Yep, that's me in ninja mode. I'll brighten things up. At least I ditched the black helmet last year.

Thanks for the tips and links, all.

FinalImpact · Apr 25, 2014

On a single lane like that, I'd be closer to the Yellow center for a couple reasons.
1) your not lost behind the lead vehicle. i.e. you appear from nowhere! not Good!
2) drivers on the left shoulder pulling out can see you.
3) oncoming traffic sees you too and may withhold a pass if your lights are seen as an oncoming vehicle.

HOWEVER, I could also be found on the RIGHT SIDE if I see someone pulling out from my right. And all for the same reasons as 1 & 2 - 2 being the right shoulder in this case.

Years ago in the cage I thought this SS rider was being way to aggressive on the freeway. As I thought about his Hooligan riding style it was really all about being seen. There were a couple folks not paying attention. He got my attention and theirs! It was effective!

I now do the same things and weave all over my lane if I think someone has lost focus and is :Flip: off not paying attention when they should be driving.
POINT: I'll be noticed if they think I'm whack job SS crotchrocket nut case that might do something crazy! << That is very situation dependent. Like some punk texting instead of driving. I'm not going down without a fight and as I a rule I don't ride to piss anyone off. Hopefully that makes sense!

Erci · Apr 25, 2014

FinalImpact said:
On a single lane like that, I'd be closer to the Yellow center for a couple reasons.
1) your not lost behind the lead vehicle. i.e. you appear from nowhere! not Good!
2) drivers on the left shoulder pulling out can see you.
3) oncoming traffic sees you too and may withhold a pass if your lights are seen as an oncoming vehicle.

HOWEVER, I could also be found on the RIGHT SIDE if I see someone pulling out from my right. And all for the same reasons as 1 & 2 - 2 being the right shoulder in this case.

Years ago in the cage I thought this SS rider was being way to aggressive on the freeway. As I thought about his Hooligan riding style it was really all about being seen. There were a couple folks not paying attention. He got my attention and theirs! It was effective!

I now do the same things and weave all over my lane if I think someone has lost focus and is :Flip: off not paying attention when they should be driving.
POINT: I'll be noticed if they think I'm whack job SS crotchrocket nut case that might do something crazy! << That is very situation dependent. Like some punk texting instead of driving. I'm not going down without a fight and as I a rule I don't ride to piss anyone off. Hopefully that makes sense!

All good advice. Really can never say "left" or "right" is the right place to be. Lane position should never be static.. always needs adjusting based on what your rider radar picks up.

In this particular case, I too would probably have been a bit closer to the left, BUT.. oaks had loads of space between him and the car in front of him, meaning he wasn't hidden to the cars coming in from left or right.

Blowing horn in advance may have helped. Wearing more visible stuff may have helped. Weaving may have helped. Doing all 3 may still have been ignored by the driver.. so no matter what.. always gotta expect the dumbest thing from cagers.

oaks · Apr 25, 2014

I could see the front windows of that car as soon as it pulled up to the intersection, so it was possible for him to see me.

Notice he was partly into the road even as the white SUV was going by him. He was probably looking to his left after he made a mental note of the SUV coming from the right and never noticed me. When I saw him starting to roll, that's when I moved to the right and hit the horn.

All in a day's ride ... :shakehead:

kenh · Apr 25, 2014

Erci said:
All good advice. Really can never say "left" or "right" is the right place to be. Lane position should never be static.. always needs adjusting based on what your rider radar picks up.

In this particular case, I too would probably have been a bit closer to the left, BUT.. oaks had loads of space between him and the car in front of him, meaning he wasn't hidden to the cars coming in from left or right.

Blowing horn in advance may have helped. Wearing more visible stuff may have helped. Weaving may have helped. Doing all 3 may still have been ignored by the driver.. so no matter what.. always gotta expect the dumbest thing from cagers.

+1 on the above. I ride the same same way I drive .....expect the unexpected, so when it happens your better prepared and have a tentative plan of action. Mind you this all happens in a span of 2-3 seconds. But the real benefit to this approach is you are not surprised and are able to just react. It did not not appear as though you had sufficient runoff room on the shoulder before the guardrail so in this situation it is most important that the driver becomes aware of your presence. On that note my new mods for 2014 include a Stebel horn and a Shoei RF-1200 in white. I have been riding with a Bell that is painted like my bike, you know - the faster blue one..:thumbup:

VEGASRIDER · Apr 25, 2014

This reminds me of the interactive scenario we conduct in the classroom. What do you see? And what would or should you do?

Erci · Apr 25, 2014

VEGASRIDER said:
This reminds me of the interactive scenario we conduct in the classroom. What do you see? And what would or should you do?

Right on, Kenny! This video can easily be in our curriculum!

More invisible than usual?

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