For the speeders

For those of you who chose to violate the apparent speed kimits, this may help if you get caught.

*Note I am not condoning or advocating exceeding the speed limit*

If you get a speeding ticket, fight that sucker, the speed zone your in may be bogus and in violation of both Federal and State laws. Here in California the municipalities are legally required to perform a speed survey every 5 years, or if conditions( population density, schools, industrial, etc.) have not changed tehn every 7 years. The only time the speed is mandated at less than 55 mph is in a residential zone (housing density greater than 13 houses per 1/4 mile) a school zone (when children are present) or environmental conditions warrant a reduced speed. If you get a ticket, go to your local governing body and find out when the last speed survey was done, here in the county I live in there hasn't been one in 15 years, therefor all roads regardless of posted speeds are 55 mph, if they don't meet the above criteria for reduced speeds. If you are caught by radar, then this counts as a speed trap! Highly illegal here in California.

If you are caught by radar period, fight it, radar has some very strict guidelines to it. This could save you both money and a point on our license.

Just trying to be helpful. My boss recently fought a ticket on this basis and won with ease. Too bad I found out this stuff to save myself the hassle:rtfm:

trailblazer87 said:

For those of you who chose to violate the apparent speed kimits, this may help if you get caught.

*Note I am not condoning or advocating exceeding the speed limit*

If you get a speeding ticket, fight that sucker, the speed zone your in may be bogus and in violation of both Federal and State laws. Here in California the municipalities are legally required to perform a speed survey every 5 years, or if conditions( population density, schools, industrial, etc.) have not changed tehn every 7 years. The only time the speed is mandated at less than 55 mph is in a residential zone (housing density greater than 13 houses per 1/4 mile) a school zone (when children are present) or environmental conditions warrant a reduced speed. If you get a ticket, go to your local governing body and find out when the last speed survey was done, here in the county I live in there hasn't been one in 15 years, therefor all roads regardless of posted speeds are 55 mph, if they don't meet the above criteria for reduced speeds. If you are caught by radar, then this counts as a speed trap! Highly illegal here in California.

If you are caught by radar period, fight it, radar has some very strict guidelines to it. This could save you both money and a point on our license.

Just trying to be helpful. My boss recently fought a ticket on this basis and won with ease. Too bad I found out this stuff to save myself the hassle:rtfm:

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Go for it and let me know if the judge falls off the bench laughing.....

I always win against the crown. They always ask the wrong questions.

UK Speeders

I was advised by a defence solicitor to group insure my bike with some friends. All of the group should have the same coloured lid and jacket. Then you could say that you did not know which member of the group was riding the bike at that given time. Unfortunately this changed about six weeks ago. Now in the UK if you do not say who is riding your bike you take the wrap. So we can't take the fifth and not incrimminate (is that spelt right) ourselves.
Load of bollocks.

Biker Bill said:

Same way here in the states... Well Pennsylvania, Delaware, New Jersey and I think Maryland, anyway.

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Yep it sucks big time. IMO it's just another way of collecting tax.

perryn said:

I was advised by a defence solicitor to group insure my bike with some friends. All of the group should have the same coloured lid and jacket. Then you could say that you did not know which member of the group was riding the bike at that given time. Unfortunately this changed about six weeks ago. Now in the UK if you do not say who is riding your bike you take the wrap. So we can't take the fifth and not incriminate (is that spelt right) ourselves.
Load of bollocks.

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In the states and as far as I can remember, this all started when the camera shots started issuing citations at traffic lights. Folks would simply say I wasn't driving. So, to handle this the jurisdiction came back with a good answer to solve the problem. It's your ride and in the end you are the responsible party so either you get the citation for what was clearly an illegal act or the party that was operating your ride gets it. Take your pick but the law has been enforced either way. The other one I like is the "you can't search my vehicle/bike without a warrant." Wanna bet?

In regards to the warrantless search of a vehicle; the motor vehicle exception was first established by the United States Supreme Court in 1925, in Carroll v. United States. The motor vehicle exception allows an officer to search a vehicle without a warrant as long as he or she has probable cause to believe that evidence or contraband is located in the vehicle.

Example, a person or persons is observed with a package that is believed to contain an illegal item/items. They can not search that person without a warrant however, said package now enters a vehicle. At that point the motor vehicle exception would apply.

If you are stopped and the officer smells pot or alcohol, he may then apply the exception and search the entire vehicle and any contents without a warrant due to the exception and probable cause.

Neat stuff ain't it???

Here in Houston it works like this.

1. You get a speeding ticket.
2. You get a lawyer and pay him what the ticket would cost you.
3. He gets said ticket dismissed, you get no points and your insurance doesn’t go up.
4. You can do this over and over.

As long as your not more than 25 mph over the limit this seems to be the UNwritten law here.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$:thumbup:

jimcisme said:

Here in Houston it works like this.

1. You get a speeding ticket.
2. You get a lawyer and pay him what the ticket would cost you.
3. He gets said ticket dismissed, you get no points and your insurance doesn’t go up.
4. You can do this over and over.

As long as your not more than 25 mph over the limit this seems to be the UNwritten law here.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$:thumbup:

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Here in Kentucky you can get the ticket, promise you won't get another for a year and its free (don't get a ticket).

jimcisme said:

Here in Houston it works like this.

1. You get a speeding ticket.
2. You get a lawyer and pay him what the ticket would cost you.
3. He gets said ticket dismissed, you get no points and your insurance doesn’t go up.
4. You can do this over and over.

As long as your not more than 25 mph over the limit this seems to be the UNwritten law here.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$:thumbup:

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It's the same here in Vegas too. But the going rate is a flat $50 -$75 and the lawyers get it reduced to a parking ticket. There are a bunch of lawyers who make a living off of fixing speeding tickets. Good thing though, otherwise we wouldn't have any taxi or limo drivers. I'm lucky, I have yet to get a ticket on my bike.

In Illinois, if you are less than 20 mph over the speed limit, you can apply for court supervision. This means that you pay the ticket + $25 (or $50...I don't remember). Then if you go 6 months without another ticket, then speeding violation disappears, no points, no fuss. If however, you get another ticket within the supervision period, the old one stands, and the new one gets added and points are now in play.

HavBlue said:

Go for it and let me know if the judge falls off the bench laughing.....

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I've heard about this working in CA from several different sources. There was even an article in SportRider or Motorcyclist about just this.
________
Vaporizer

DefyInertia said:

I've heard about this working in CA from several different sources. There was even an article in SportRider or Motorcyclist about just this.

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Having worked side by side with the CHP, San Bernardino and Riverside County Sheriffs as well as Orange County Sheriffs I can say that in over 10 years of working with them I have known of this but never have I heard of it actually working. Attempted? Yes but having the outcome of the case go to dismissal, never. Our laws are based on "the reasonable person" and while surveys may indeed be old, so are many bridge structures and roadways which have been surveyed in the past to determine relative safety. An excellent example of this for you folks in So Cal is Highway 74, the Ortega. For those that don't know this road it's 100 plus quality twisties over a 20 mile run from Lake Elsinore in the Inland Empire to the beach community of San Juan Capistrano. The road is very old 2 lane blacktop and at certain times of the year beyond dangerous. I worked that stretch a number of summers and during one bad holiday we had 4 fatality bike accidents in 4 straight days. On the San Juan end there are 2 bridges that don't even meet width code hence the reason for the upcoming project. In any case the speed limit that is posted will be monitored and for those that can't handle it paper is written. The same can be said of Highway 2 which cuts the ridge route across the Angeles National Forest. Another road is the 101 mile Rim of the World drive which cuts the transverse mountain range on the San Bernardino National Forest.

The posted speeds are there for a reason and any "reasonable person" should know that when the speed is posted 40mph it doesn't mean 55mph nor will it ever mean 55mph for obvious reasons. On any 2 lane road in California the maximum speed limit is 55 and this is as high as law will allow. So, if the speed isn't posted the fact remains it's 55mph not 70mph. If the posted speed is 35 and you are going 55 because the last survey was 10 years ago. I would say go for it but I still want to see the look on that judges face when he slams you for speeding.

HavBlue, the argument does not focus on whether or not the person was in fact "speeding", just whether or not the officer was unlawfully attempting to catch speeders via a "speed trap", and if so, whether or not the evidence should be allowed in court.

Think a long the lines of searching without probable cause.

FWIW, it's my opinion that to get out of something you're guilty of based on a technicality is shameless.
________
Lambada cam

it wouldn't help me if I ever get caught(knock on wood) it will be for a lot more then 70MPH!!!

DefyInertia said:

HavBlue, the argument does not focus on whether or not the person was in fact "speeding", just whether or not the officer was unlawfully attempting to catch speeders via a "speed trap", and if so, whether or not the evidence should be allowed in court.

Think a long the lines of searching without probable cause.

FWIW, it's my opinion that to get out of something you're guilty of based on a technicality is shameless.

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Then lets take a look at CVC section 40802, Speed Trap.

(1) A particular section of a highway measured as to distance and with boundaries marked, designated, or otherwise determined in order that the speed of a vehicle may be calculated by securing the time it takes the vehicle to travel the known distance.

(2) A particular section of a highway with a prima facie speed limit that is provided by this code or by local ordinance under subparagraph (A) of paragraph (2) of subdivision (a) of Section 22352, or established under Section 22354, 22357, 22358, or 22358.3, if that prima facie speed limit is not justified by an engineering and traffic survey conducted within five years prior to the date of the alleged violation, and enforcement of the speed limit involves the use of radar or any other electronic device that measures the speed of moving objects. This paragraph does not apply to a local street, road, or school zone.

So, if you happen to be in an area where a specific section of road has been measured off and set up as a speed trap is defined then go for it but try finding one of these places. The standard RADAR now used doesn't need to know distance, can determine your speed, the vehicles around you and their speed as well as the speed of the unit the device is in. The hand held gun isn't quite as sophisticated however, it doesn't need to know the distance to target or the length of road the target has traveled.

Years ago they used a system that was known as VASCAR which worked by knowing a specific distance and the time a specific vehicle took to make that distance. It was a perfect match for what is defined here as Speed Trap.

I look at it this way, why play if you can't pay cause either way you got caught speeding.

HavBlue said:

Then lets take a look at CVC section 40802, Speed Trap.

(1) A particular section of a highway measured as to distance and with boundaries marked, designated, or otherwise determined in order that the speed of a vehicle may be calculated by securing the time it takes the vehicle to travel the known distance.

(2) A particular section of a highway with a prima facie speed limit that is provided by this code or by local ordinance under subparagraph (A) of paragraph (2) of subdivision (a) of Section 22352, or established under Section 22354, 22357, 22358, or 22358.3, if that prima facie speed limit is not justified by an engineering and traffic survey conducted within five years prior to the date of the alleged violation, and enforcement of the speed limit involves the use of radar or any other electronic device that measures the speed of moving objects. This paragraph does not apply to a local street, road, or school zone.

So, if you happen to be in an area where a specific section of road has been measured off and set up as a speed trap is defined then go for it but try finding one of these places. The standard RADAR now used doesn't need to know distance, can determine your speed, the vehicles around you and their speed as well as the speed of the unit the device is in. The hand held gun isn't quite as sophisticated however, it doesn't need to know the distance to target or the length of road the target has traveled.

Years ago they used a system that was known as VASCAR which worked by knowing a specific distance and the time a specific vehicle took to make that distance. It was a perfect match for what is defined here as Speed Trap.

I look at it this way, why play if you can't pay cause either way you got caught speeding.

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I got a ticket over the Summer (first ever on the bike) and apparently the handheld guns now use LIDAR technology that is a laser based system that can be targeted as accurately as a sniper scope on any area as small as 6" x 6" and tells the speed within 1mph, type of vehicle that is zapped, distance from target to gun. Needless to say, i did not win when i took it to court

I've heard the old argument that a motorcycle is too small to accurately be able to be detected on a radar. my answer to that was "then how do they work on a baseball?"

sportrider_fz6 said:

I've heard the old argument that a motorcycle is too small to accurately be able to be detected on a radar. my answer to that was "then how do they work on a baseball?"

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When dealing with RADAR it is much more difficult to get the bike if it is in a group of cages as the system wants the object with the greatest mass. LASER on the other hand is point of target as represented above by the example using a rifle scope. The LASER locks on to one target and one target only. It does not care about mass and it is extremely accurate.

I have played with the side of the road RADAR wagons more than a few times on the FZ6 and it has been my experience they have trouble locking on to the bike. Granted, they eventually match speed with me but until they do the trailer is giving all sorts of speeds that are not what I have the bike set at.