Body position, skill, traction (loss of), lean angle = vid to discuss

[Neal]

Yeah this is like in aviation with the advent of GPS. Many pilots learn now solely relying on a GPS to let them know where they are and navigate, yet if and when it fails they have no knowledge on how to navigate via paper charts and outdated nav aids cause they were never trained or bothered to learn having developed a total reliance on gps. Now GPS is great and all and is by far the best way but like others have already said it's really only a supplement to the "paper maps" and your skills on navigating. Now one was saying that this new tech (abs,tcs,etc.) gives the ability to a lesser skilled rider to handle a "sketchy" bike and go as fast as a skilled rider without tech and somehow the more skilled riders disapprove because apparently they feel threatened by the unskilled going just as fast is nonsense. Maybe the unskilled rider would take a tip from aviation where they just don't let you jump into an f-16 right off the bat, every good pilot came up the ranks starting in a small manageable aircraft and progressively advancing their skills in order to move up to the next aircraft(and not kill themselves). If all riders took the time to start small and develop skills then even when they did move up to said "sketchy" bike they would 1. Be more responsible and 2. Not be tripping the electronics. Cause as we know the electronic *aids* only kick in when the rider has made a mistake, so therefore if they develop riding skills they wouldn't be tripping those aids in the first place. That is all. [emoji16][emoji106]

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Not even remotely similar.

-Ride by wire is not tripping the electronics or an electronic aid.

-The system is all electronics and only runs on electronics.

When the electronics fails the bike doesn't run.


Your analogy is like saying it is a mistake to active the turbofan on a F-16 and you should be only using the Rotor to navigate.

 

[marke14]

Mark would probably give us the best answer but if I had to guess: 30-40 range.

Probably even less than that in a lot of the crashes ... this is one of the tricky parts of this corner. It looks/feels like you can take it really fast. It doubles back nearly 180 degrees as you can see, and it is cambered, which in addition to the grade (uphill) give the sense that you can rail this turn. Which you can, if you set it up right and have practice at it - I've seen it done!

It's kind of like when you were a kid at the local swimming pool. You see some of those kids go off the high-dive (the 3 meter springboard), and most people just kind of hop into the pool from up there. Once in a while you see someone get brave and actually dive off using proper form. And once in a while, you see a subset of those guys fail at it, and either belly-flop or back-flop. That is what happens with this turn - a lot of people just kind of drive up it, or look tense and awkward as they attempt to take it quickly, but get through it. Then, sometimes, people belly-flop.

There's a turn up on Palomar in San Diego county (or is that Imperial?) that Cliff and Brian and Jerry and the SD guys know well I'm sure - one of the switchbacks, one of the big righthander turns going up the South Grade if I am not mistaken - that kind of tightens up as you go uphill through the turn. That is a bit different as it is more blind and the camber drops out midway through the turn, just as the corner tightens up. For those who know the turn I'm referring to, to me, that turn has a similar feel and potential top speed on 2 wheels.

 

[JeffSez59]

Not even remotely similar.

-Ride by wire is not tripping the electronics or an electronic aid.

-The system is all electronics and only runs on electronics.

When the electronics fails the bike doesn't run.


Your analogy is like saying it is a mistake to active the turbofan on a F-16 and you should be only using the Rotor to navigate.

^That sir makes no sense. And yeah everyone of those aids are "triggered" besides your "electronic engine braking." And btw "ride by wire" is just the evolution of "fly by wire" and is just the computer calculating your input and executing that action instead of old cable tech. It however still doesn't save you in anyway, if you ask it to apply more power than can be put down the " ride by wire" will still do it. The tcs system would then trigger to limit the wheel spin you cause even with the ride by wire. And don't you see the flaw to your logic, and this tech. the bike won't run if the electronics don't work? Well if you ask me I don't want that! Give me an old dirt bike from the 70s without an ounce of tech and I'll be happy. Either way you said that the ppl that resist moving to the new tech will fade into obsolescence I disagree. Let me just remind all that it is easier for the ones who resist moving to the new tech at first to go there whenever they feel necessary but those who solely relied and fail to learn the basics won't be able to regress to a less advance bike without there being issues with there riding style. In the end I really don't mind either way. If you want to ride pure tech or learn the basics on something simple that's fine, to each their own!
[emoji106]

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[Neal]

^That sir makes no sense. And yeah everyone of those aids are "triggered" besides your "electronic engine braking." And btw "ride by wire" is just the evolution of "fly by wire" and is just the computer calculating your input and executing that action instead of old cable tech. It however still doesn't save you in anyway, if you ask it to apply more power than can be put down the " ride by wire" will still do it. The tcs system would then trigger to limit the wheel spin you cause even with the ride by wire. And don't you see the flaw to your logic, and this tech. the bike won't run if the electronics don't work? Well if you ask me I don't want that! Give me an old dirt bike from the 70s without an ounce of tech and I'll be happy. Either way you said that the ppl that resist moving to the new tech will fade into obsolescence I disagree. Let me just remind all that it is easier for the ones who resist moving to the new tech at first to go there whenever they feel necessary but those who solely relied and fail to learn the basics won't be able to regress to a less advance bike without there being issues with there riding style. In the end I really don't mind either way. If you want to ride pure tech or learn the basics on something simple that's fine, to each their own!
[emoji106]

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I have logged over 10k miles on ride by wire. My critics have done probable zero with all their miles combined and their posts reflect what you would expect of those with no experience.

Did you just give me a post denouncing technology on a smartphone?!?! LOL

 

[JeffSez59]

I have logged over 10k miles on ride by wire. My critics have done probable zero with all their miles combined and their posts reflect what you would expect of those with no experience.

Did you just give me a post denouncing technology on a smartphone?!?! LOL

Yes I did. Even these smartphones are out of control you can admit. Since when does a 5yr old kid need a smartphone yet they have them and society just lets it be. Mostly because it's just more $ for the phone companies which influence the media shown to the youth. But all I was trying to say is that all the tech always has an Achilles heel and that we all shouldn't be so dependent on it. [emoji6]

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[bdevries]

Send me a picture of your abacus or I don't believe you understand what you are saying.

I completely understand what I'm saying. If you don't I'd recommend rereading it.


Tech is a nice supplement, but not a replacement for good riding.. after all.. if you can't run a fast lap on a bike without tech, can you actually REALLY run a fast lap at all? or is it fast just because the machine is doing the work for you?

Every time I enter this thread I won't if you have fessed up to trolling yet.. unfortunately some members may be taking you seriously though..

 

[Neal]

I completely understand what I'm saying. If you don't I'd recommend rereading it.


Tech is a nice supplement, but not a replacement for good riding.. after all.. if you can't run a fast lap on a bike without tech, can you actually REALLY run a fast lap at all? or is it fast just because the machine is doing the work for you?

Every time I enter this thread I won't if you have fessed up to trolling yet.. unfortunately some members may be taking you seriously though..

You have no clue what you are saying.

The wheels on your bike are technology. No technology = literally no bike.

 

[bdevries]

You have no clue what you are saying.

The wheels on your bike are technology. No technology = literally no bike.

You know what kind of tech I'm talking about in this context bud, see your own posts below.

Some people bemoan the advance of technology and how it diminishes riding skill. I see these as riders being prone to flagellation as if they wanted to snap a limb, back, neck or at least get a good road rash every time they made a riding mistake or perhaps they want to see lesser skilled riders fly into guard rails because those new riders don't deserve to be able to ride like them.

Motogp tech trickling down to production bikes didn't surprise me- that is to be expected.

For those that state that technology is a cover up for poor skills (and this goes for everything in life not just riding)- I disagree.

Technology advancements are game changers and you can either learn to play by the new rules or complain that your skill set is becoming obsolete while fading slowing out of relevance.

 

[Neal]

You know what kind of tech I'm talking about in this context bud, see your own posts below.

Advancements in motorcycles have been happening since the 1800's.

Motogp started in 1949.

Which of those notable starting points in history do you prefer?

 

[darius]

Advancements in motorcycles have been happening since the 1800's.

Motogp started in 1949.

Which of those notable starting points in history do you prefer?

While I'm sure you find yourself hilarious, you're just derailing the thread.

 

[bdevries]

While I'm sure you find yourself hilarious, you're just derailing the thread.

thats what people do when they dig themselves such a deep hole!

 

[marke14]

.
Which of those notable starting points in history do you prefer?

Just a reminder: if you go fast enough, it doesn't matter what you ride. (See attached image).

 

[FinalImpact]

<< Thread return
The more I hear about that corner and those riders who failed to negotiate it (first post), these parts have surprises like that too. Picture uphill climb through these switch backs and into an off canter sweeper which leads into a nice sharp turn with serious visual deception. You can see the entrance and exit of the corner, however at speed the basic turn drops and sharpens even though you can see the exit. If done wrong, you the rider are in the air when you should be turning. Its bad!

It is the deception of lifetime as it chucks the bike in the air for a turn. So these hidden jewels are out there and I'm not trying to say I'm something special. I'm saying a rider can gain allot from adverse terrain. It teaches people to see potential threats and act accordingly before the bike and riders stance/setup into corner is compromised.

Granted track hours and good coaching will have its rewards for each rider, but some things must be learned in the environment we ride in. it makes me want to turn bike to the "who started in the dirt thread".

Good thread - lets keep it clean!

 

[Erci]

Just a reminder: if you go fast enough, it doesn't matter what you ride. (See attached image).

LMAO!! Nice! :thumbup:

 

[Neal]

Just a reminder: if you go fast enough, it doesn't matter what you ride. (See attached image).

I ride like Bambi- cautious in the meadows because that is where Man will be hunting.

 

[Motogiro]

That is San Diego County.
There's a turn up on Palomar in San Diego county (or is that Imperial?) that Cliff and Brian and Jerry and the SD guys know well I'm sure - one of the switchbacks, one of the big righthander turns going up the South Grade if I am not mistaken - that kind of tightens up as you go uphill through the turn. That is a bit different as it is more blind and the camber drops out midway through the turn, just as the corner tightens up. For those who know the turn I'm referring to, to me, that turn has a similar feel and potential top speed on 2 wheels.

Lol! Yeah I know that turn very well! Added to that there is a little dip in it so if your suspension is well compressed as you have to tighten there is that dip. I was in that turn hard over and off the bike, the turn closed and I was on my slash cut peg. I was totally cool riding the peg and then the dip and all of a sudden my rear end pops up! I stayed steady on the peg and finished the turn. I get to the top of Pally and my rear brake lever is bent at a right angle. I thought my rear would lose traction but I was on BT-016 Pro. Every thing you do as a rider whether it be skill, technology or intent keeps you through the turn.
Your intent equals knowledge equals technology equals commitment equals skill equals smooth inputs equals Blah

 

[marke14]

Lol! Yeah I know that turn very well!

Ask Jerry about him nearly following me off the road as I nearly blew that turn!

Live and learn ... but live, for sure. :Flash:

 

[FinalImpact]

thats what people do when they dig themselves such a deep hole!

It seems the issue has come and gone full circle. As you were.. .. ..

 

[darius]

It seems the issue has come and gone full circle. As you were.. .. ..

Pretty sure that's what he was shooting for anyway. Everybody's happy..

 

[bdevries]

It seems the issue has come and gone full circle. As you were.. .. ..

Not sure what you mean here, but.. OK!