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LMAO! Neal! You got me! :rof::rof:
Body position, skill, traction (loss of), lean angle = vid to discuss
- Thread starter FinalImpact
- Start date
Has any of you guys actually ridden that road?
I'm wondering if the road collects dust at this point? I agree though to much speed.
Nelly:thumbup:
I'm wondering if the road collects dust at this point? I agree though to much speed.
Nelly:thumbup:
Not knowing Neal well, I didn't want to say anything.. if that was sarcasm.. :thumbup: :thumbup:
(please tell me that was sarcasm!)
Nope....The Highway Patrol have ingeniously been in the lab with Highway Maintenance to concoct a devious bituminous application that at the correct speed/lean angle and tire grip is designed to cause a mishap...:sinister:
know your limits!
know your limits!
I agree, however their extreme lean angle may have not allowed for the required acceleration to maintain their line through the corner. By this I mean that they may have exceeded the available grip, which may be tires or road debris. I would attribute this situation to those who slid out, not high sided.
This is only speculation on my part as I have no experience sliding on tarmac. I harken back to my dirt bike days when a corner such as this (on dirt or loose conditions) could be approached and executed by applying throttle and counter steering.
I agree, however their extreme lean angle may have not allowed for the required acceleration to maintain their line through the corner. By this I mean that they may have exceeded the available grip, which may be tires or road debris. I would attribute this situation to those who slid out, not high sided.
This is only speculation on my part as I have no experience sliding on tarmac. I harken back to my dirt bike days when a corner such as this (on dirt or loose conditions) could be approached and executed by applying throttle and counter steering.
^^ that would be the lads who backed it into the fence with too much throttle!
Neal
Banned
My advice to all those riders and anyone who wants to drag a knee, elbow, and hard parts on the street.
-Go to a racing bike shop spent 20-40 dollars to get them to setup your suspension (sag/rebound/compression) for you it will make a significant difference. Ask their opinion of what type of riding you machine is capable of doing on the street.
-Use a 50/50 tire (a tire that is built 50 percent for street riding and 50 for track riding).
One approaching all those low-sides is to say too much gas.
I say get a better setup that can handle it. You shouldn't have to stress over a moderate roll on of the throttle on a 600c or less bike going 30-50mph on a turn.
-Go to a racing bike shop spent 20-40 dollars to get them to setup your suspension (sag/rebound/compression) for you it will make a significant difference. Ask their opinion of what type of riding you machine is capable of doing on the street.
-Use a 50/50 tire (a tire that is built 50 percent for street riding and 50 for track riding).
One approaching all those low-sides is to say too much gas.
I say get a better setup that can handle it. You shouldn't have to stress over a moderate roll on of the throttle on a 600c or less bike going 30-50mph on a turn.
Senior
My brother is Junior
Erci, you're right, . and I should have said before the corner (which is what I meant ... ).
Most haven't worked out a 'Riding Plan' for the 'Hazard' that they are approaching. They need to use IPSGA : Information Position Speed Gear Acceleration
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CountryBoy
Junior Member
I was wondering about dust as well. The off-camber argument further up makes sense too.
For the most part there's a lot of target fixation going on there. Which is actually one of my personal demons. I will be paying may parents a visit in the alps this summer in order to "sort it out".
I'm gonna go ahead and say that in approximately 100% of those crashes, the bike setup had nothing to do with it.
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I do think Neal has a point with regard to set up in that tire traction alone has a lot to do with whether you start an event that becomes a low or high side.
Ultimately it is rider responsibility from the skill, mechanical set up, including suspension and rider decision that results in a successful or
turn.It really is hard for me to actually see what's happening in all of these crashes. I think it's due to camera angle but some are very obvious.
So a rider with a poor suspension set up get's too much compression in the turn, touches his peg, the turn tightens it radius, the rider spooks off the peg contact,b brakes, stands the bike up when he should have tightened the turn and he's out of the turn.
I do think Neal has a point with regard to set up in that tire traction alone has a lot to do with whether you start an event that becomes a low or high side.
Ultimately it is rider responsibility from the skill, mechanical set up, including suspension and rider decision that results in a successful or
It really is hard for me to actually see what's happening in all of these crashes. I think it's due to camera angle but some are very obvious.
So a rider with a poor suspension set up get's too much compression in the turn, touches his peg, the turn tightens it radius, the rider spooks off the peg contact,b brakes, stands the bike up when he should have tightened the turn and he's out of the turn.
Proper bike setup is important, no question. All of the crashes on this particular road though.. no doubt hard to tell what's going on, but besides questionable road conditions and camber (Crowned? Sandy? Combination of those 2 can be enough to take anyone down, if they ride the curve too aggressively) : it looks to me like riders are taking themselves out.. not the poorly adjusted suspension.
Scraping hard parts is typically an indicator of poor technique (use of throttle, body position) and / or riding beyond bike's capabilities (too much lean angle).. which, as in most single vehicle motorcycle crashes, is a result of carrying too much speed into a curve, be it too much speed for rider's skill level, motorcycle's capabilities or road conditions.. result is often the same.
I can't re-watch the video at work (youtube is blocked), but if you can point to the crashes where you feel better bike setup would have changed the outcome, I'd love to review those! :thumbup:
rsw81
Keep it Kosher
You NEVER want to be attached to the bike when it contacts something. The tank mashes itself against your family jewels, but more importantly your pelvic bone, causing potentially life threatening internal bleeding. Aside from head injury, this is the highest causes of death in motorcycle accidents.
I may be speculating about the wreck @ 3:45, but I think there was a white camry in his way, waiting to get T-boned.
Target issues:
I've found that narrow roads with deep ditches, trees, rocks, potholes, road kill, lumps, bumps, all help you sort out what is important. In these parts there are some great roads. But to get to them you have to wade through muck. Simply put; there is no time to target anything or you'll be down.
^^ Tip: Go ride on some bad roads! Blah
I agree - not many times you want to be next to it. Thanks for sharing!
Time will tell I guess.
I found some footage of others cranking through at higher speeds very successfully. Although they were dragging pucks an elbows. Their bikes were over LOTS MORE too! More than most in this vid. I'll post up tonight.
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For an obvious example 5:33 on the video. A bigger guy, An R6? comes into the turn, he spooks off the peg touch and brakes, standing the bike up.
If the suspension was better set up he may have not compressed the suspension so much in the turn. It surprised him and his SR took over.If you listen on a few of those you hear the scrape before the event. So yeah you can say rider error 100% of the time because whether it's suspension set up,tires or rider skill it's still upon the rider but I think what Neal was saying is that a properly set up bike with proper tires makes a difference.
A lot of people with poor skills enter the turns and get into trouble. As soon as you're off throttle in that turn you unload the rear wheel.
Many of the bikes low side right after there is an upset that takes throttle off the rear. Some seem to just instantly loose traction(tires?) at the rear.
I don't think anyone disagrees with the fact that if the victim wasn't standing there in the first place the rock wouldn't have fallen on him. Lol! So again ultimately, the rider.
Would I do what I do on BT-020's what I do on BT-016's or S20's? No!
Here are some riders that even though they are faster through the same turn in the OP video, are not losing control. They would be considered carrying too much speed if they lost control. No?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww40TiNInZc]Cross-Plane R1's on a foggy Saturday - YouTube[/ame]
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So maybe it's not just road camber.. maybe it's conditions on a given day (sand, oil?)
Still looks to me like rider error in pretty much every crash in original vid.
Neal
Banned
Like this guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5_Zc2mpBX0
No surprise he is using aftermarket Ohlins Front forks at least (can't see his shock but most likely it is matching), he probable spent 5k-10k on his aftermarket suspension. Also he clearly using a high performance tire.
I am willing to say that almost all the crashes could have been saved by better technology aside from the guys that just plain drove off the road without turning.
I see a lot of rear tires drifting around which could be due to a lot of suspension/geometry problems but most commonly is poor rear shock damping/compression.
-Motogp has the best of the best technology and they still spend 3 days before every race working on their setup and most of the time they still can't get everything right.
-the least every stock rider should do is get their suspension evaluated by Pro before they go out pushing the limits on street which you probable should ever do anyways.
I got my sag set 1/4 inch difference and my rear damping set for 20 dollars and the bike feels completely different (by a guy who has been doing it for 20 years). One of the best and cheapest change you can do.
For an obvious example 5:33 on the video. A bigger guy, An R6? comes into the turn, he spooks off the peg touch and brakes, standing the bike up.
If you listen on a few of those you hear the scrape before the event. So yeah you can say rider error 100% of the time because whether it's suspension set up,tires or rider skill it's still upon the rider but I think what Neal was saying is that a properly set up bike with proper tires makes a difference.
A lot of people with poor skills enter the turns and get into trouble. As soon as you're off throttle in that turn you unload the rear wheel.
Many of the bikes low side right after there is an upset that takes throttle off the rear. Some seem to just instantly loose traction(tires?) at the rear.
I don't think anyone disagrees with the fact that if the victim wasn't standing there in the first place the rock wouldn't have fallen on him. Lol! So again ultimately, the rider.
Would I do what I do on BT-020's what I do on BT-016's or S20's? No!
Here are some riders that even though they are faster through the same turn in the OP video, are not losing control. They would be considered carrying too much speed if they lost control. No?
Cross-Plane R1's on a foggy Saturday - YouTube
Excellent points, Cliff! I'll watch the vids later tonight :thumbup: