Want to upgrade brake lines

[MIJ_FZ6]

Getting ready for spring 2019, I ordered a handfull of goodies. New Yamaha 5gh oil filter, air filter, going to pickup a battery just because. I've got a few extra bucks and would like to replace the stock rubber brake lines. I did it on my other bikes and love the difference. However this bike has a few options that I am not familiar with vs my single caliper bikes.

Which option do I want? Over mud guard? Full length race? I don't race the bike. Here are a few options:

Motorcycle | Yamaha | FZ6



Venhill:
Venhill Braided Front Brake Lines 2004-2016 Yamaha FZ6/FZ6R | Venhill USA



I have seen a lot of sellers combine the fz6 and the fz6r as well.

 

[bigborer]

Always choose "race" lines. It means that there are 2 full length lines going from the MC to each caliper. This makes it much easier to bleed the brakes...

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I originally put Hel dual SS lines on my bike (front). I didn't care for the routing, getting both line visibly "even".

I contacted Hel and swapped over to the "over the fender line", stock style (using one of my lines I already had).

When the forks compressed, I could never really get the line (coming up), "correctly" as both lines go to the RIGHT (master cylinder).


IMO, looks much better, really no issues bleeding although as noted above, straight lines are slightly easier to bleed..

 

[MIJ_FZ6]

Thanks for the info. I've got two conflicting reposes. I understand the difference but i don't know how bleeding the brakes is harder on the over the mudflap. I like TownsEnds single line & over the mudflap better. I think I'll go with that.

Do you guys do the rear? I remember reading it generally is not recommended as it makes it too easy to lock up the rear.

 

[bigborer]

Straight lines are easier to bleed because with the ones that use splitters (or even go over the fender) there is a point where part of the hose sits higher than both hose ends. As air tends to go up, with straight lines it goes up to the MC, while with the others there's a risk it will get trapped in the top of the hose loop (or in the hose spltter).

Another thing with over the fender hoses- if something sticks to the tire and rips the fender, it might also take the brake line with it...

Either way, after the air got out any style of lines will function exactly the same concerning hydraulic pressure...

Doing the rear will increase (by a small margin) the feel. IMO using old and poor rubber lines just so you'd "gain" 3mm more pedal travel before the wheel locks up makes no sense.

And this might start some debate, but every single safety course I've done so far taught that when emergency braking to pull in the clutch, lock the rear wheel and then gradually squeeze the front lever. EVEN for non-ABS bikes. Reason for this being that with hard front braking the weight shifts forward and the rear will easily lock up anyway, so you might just as well get used to the feeling.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Agreed with the over the fender bleeding, slightly more difficult.

As for something catching the line, ripping off the fender, etc, REALLY??? Yamaha wouldn't have put it there to start with stock if it was in any way a safety issue..

Plus one, do the rear brake as well. Practice and you'll get used to it.

I want ALL the braking power I can muster, just in case, AND be able to use it…



Getting off topic a bit:

Re braking, IMO and experience (ADVANCED Police Motorcycle School), you are taught that you can lock up the rear brake and still STAY UPRIGHT. We practiced this on full dressed Harleys in grass medians (in the boonies).

Like anti-brake systems, you should practice and know the limits of your bike-you do NOT want to lock up the brakes(IE anti-lock brakes!!!).

I would NEVER INTENTIONALLY lock up my rear brake in an emergency situation.

You should be applying BOTH the fronts and rear as hard as possible considering the grip, sand on the road way, leaning, wet, dry, etc BUT keeping the bike upright.. If it starts to lock, let up just a knats hair and get traction again. It's all about control...

 

[bigborer]

you should practice and know the limits of your bike

That's probably the most important thing. I try, at least once every solo ride (GF doesn't seem to appreciate brake practice) to do one practice emergency breaking and a few quick swerving moves.


At the last course I did last year they made us each choose a "moderate speed", stick to it and do these drills:
-rear only
-rear locked only
-front only
-front + rear
-front + locked rear

Most stopped the shortest in the last drill, few stopped almost the same in the last 2 drills. Not because locking the rear is better (it's not), but simply because just pressing the rear brake and "forgetting" about your foot leaves more concentration power for the front brake and staying upright. The rear brake has most of it's effect during the initial stage of breaking, while the weight shifts it's distribution from centered to front. After the weight has shifted, if the front brake is perfectly applied the front will do around 90% to 95% of braking depending on chassis geometry. Under ideal conditions (as in track racing) the front is actually 100% braking, with the rear wheel hovering just above the ground.

As with many things, what is theoretically better, and what is practically doable by most people are often two different things . If one manages to use 90% of the maximum front breaking capacity while locking or ignoring the rear break, they will still be totaling at 80 to 85% of fully perfect breaking. I'd bet that most riders aren't at 80% of perfect breaking even on track days, let alone on the street in a split second emergency situation...

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Agreed 100%. ^^^

IE; When I was in the traffic unit (City Police) on motorcycles (way back) we were riding Harleys (no anti lock brakes, anti skid, etc).

It was summer time / rainey season (in the afternoon), when it rains, it POURS down here. Rain clouds started rolling in while pretty far from the station.
I headed for the station but the road was already wet (55 MPH speed limit-which I was about doing). Too fast for conditions, yep..

I needed to turn off to a street on the right, so I changed lanes (into the turning lane). There was a semi sitting there waiting to pull out.

As I braked pretty hard, the rear started locking up, fronts on (I'm still straight up and down, no leaning) as hard as I dared. Pumped the rear brakes several times as it locked and un-locked at least 4-6 times... Still couldn't turn due to the wet road, speed, etc or I would have gone down..

With the truck driver looking at me, I stopped MAYBE 5' from his cab. He just looked. I said "Hi", made my right turn finally and got back safely.

Had I locked up the rear, didn't use the front brakes fully, etc, I either would have tagged him or laid it down and tagged him (my fault of course)…


Gotta know your limits, the bikes limits and get into the habit / REFLEX of using both brakes almost ALL the time.. ***Practice what your TRAINED IN and it'll come naturally with time.

The above is a true incident and accurate.

Same as keeping at least one (or two) fingers over the front brake lever as well, covering the rear brake most of the time (try to)..

 

[bigborer]

Yeah, but in that incident you were on a large Harley: longer wheels base, low COG, much more weight on the rear, not that great front brakes, old school tires... all these resulting in much more breaking done by the rear; had a lot of training- I'd bet that even a single police rider training program is much more thorough than what most regular riders get trained their whole lives...

All those are conditions that won't apply for the average rider on a modern naked or sport bike.

One thing worth mentioning- no matter how good one is with braking- no matter how crazy the traffic is and how stupid the car drivers are- it is NOT normal to have to emergency brake once every two street corners. Frequent emergency breaking means not being present and paying attention and/or riding way to aggressively for the streets...

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Yeah, but in that incident you were on a large Harley: longer wheels base, low COG, much more weight on the rear, not that great front brakes, old school tires... all these resulting in much more breaking done by the rear; had a lot of training- I'd bet that even a single police rider training program is much more thorough than what most regular riders get trained their whole lives...

All those are conditions that won't apply for the average rider on a modern naked or sport bike.

One thing worth mentioning- no matter how good one is with braking- no matter how crazy the traffic is and how stupid the car drivers are- it is NOT normal to have to emergency brake once every two street corners. Frequent emergency breaking means not being present and paying attention and/or riding way to aggressively for the streets...

I have to dis-agree with what I bolded above.

What's going to stop faster (same rider / driver, conditions);
(1) A big old HEAVY Cadillac with drum brakes, crappy bias tires (back then) OR
(2) A newish bike, lighter, better brakes More than one piston in each front caliper, better tires, LESS MASS to stop, etc?

That's not counting in a 600cc FZ6 that will stop WAY sooner being lighter, better brakes, better tires, etc...


That was the one course I took in my career.. Practice, seat time, "riding like your invisible" and counting on that car next to you, IS going to pull out-WILL, AND being PREPARED for it is the key to staying alive.

I have 43 years of seat time on all types of street bikes alone. Another three years racing Motocross. That course didn't save me from that close call, experience did..

Point being, you can't have too much brakes. Just have to know how/when to use them, SEAT time and experience (IME)..

 

[bigborer]

I meant that for that particular bike, the rear brake does a higher % of the overall breaking (relative to it's own total braking capacity), not that an old heavy cruiser stops sooner than an FZ6...