Tuning the FZ6...

[mave2911]

Hello my fellow forum participants, I have a question regarding tuning the FZ6.

I have an '05 FZ6 (S1) and have experienced a slow decline in fuel economy over the past 6 months.

I recently purchased a set of Scorpion slip-ons and a PowerCommander3usb and fitted both to my bike.
The cans sound AWESOME but the PowerCommander3usb, loaded with the map for the Scorpion slip-ons made my bike run very, very rich. (as evidenced by the amount of black sh!t on the exhaust tips)

I have taken the PC3usb off, and 400kms later, the tips are clean.

I spoke with a guy at a local mechanic regarding tuning my bike and he was espousing the virtues of tuning rather than dyno-tuning (he doesn't have a dyno) and he said he could get better results as for normal street riding, the dyno-tune wouldn't be appropriate or optimal. (part throttle applications, just cruising etc)

Ok - question time (finally!)

Can, or could this guy tune my bike 'better' than a dyno? (my understanding is that a dyno-tune would optimise the air/fuel at all points of the rev range?)

Can the PC3usb be adjusted adequately to remove this 'over-rich' scenario?

If this guy CAN tune my bike, is there any benefit in USING a PC3?

I love evidence, or quantifiable results, so a pretty dyno graph definitely fits this - but, is it better?

Cheers,
Rick

 

[tyler2011]

No experience with tuning but you say declining fuel economy. I would expect that with the power commander, If it's not due to that then is it possible your right wrist is being used more now that you're used to the bike. It might also be worth checking the air filter, sometimes mice love them.

Side note: I changed my plugs back a month ago even though they didn't seem worn or dirty and my fuel economy increased a little, that was with 16k mi on what I think were the originals (I put 9k on the plugs after buying the bike at ~7k).

 

[GTPAddict]

For what it's worth...

I have no experience in tuning motorcycles, but I do with cars. I have even written some tuning software for the GM 3100/3800 platform. That being said, IF HE TAKES THE TIME, yes you can get a really good tune without a dyno. As far as a tune as good as a dyno tune, well that depends on how much experience he has tuning bikes. Using a dyno, they would more then likely use a wideband O2 sensor to monitor the exhaust and modify the fuel map accordingly. If he has the ability to monitor the exhaust while riding the bike, and has the experience, he can probably do just as good without a dyno for the most part.

All of the dyno tunes I have seen (and remember this is on cars) have focused mainly on wide open throttle. Keep in mind that dyno time is usually very expensive, so they focus on the most important aspect of your tune. For an all around driving tune, you actually have to drive the vehicle.

 

[mave2911]

Thank you Eddie.

The dyno-tune will cost in the vacinity of $AU350, and take about 3hrs (or so I'm told)

I said to the dyno guy that I'm really after economy, so he said to tell him at what rev-range I wanted said economy, and he'd adjust accordingly.

This raises more questions however - does that mean that coming out of that rev-range, the bike will be sluggish? (or use more fuel going up a hill/against a headwind - well, more than the usual increase)

Based on what you're saying, if I'm reading the above correctly, is that the tuner may get it as good as the dyno, but no better?


I was going to get it dynoed, but the tuner sprouted that the benefits of the dyno wouldn't really be seen with normal commuting, rather in wide-open attack position only.

My thoughts are that if the bike makes more power at a certain rev point, and you don't USE that power, then essentially the bike will be doing the work on less fuel. (= economy)

Cheers,
Rick

 

[GTPAddict]

It's all about air fuel ratios. For example, you may get the best fuel economy at 14.7:1, but the best performance at 12:1. I'm not sure how the fuel maps are based on these bikes, but I'd assume it's like most cars. It's a 2 dimensional table with RPM on horizontal and manifold vacuum (or calculated air intake) on the vertical. So, fuel is delivered based on manifold vacuum (engine load) and engine RPM. If you're at say 6000 and cruising, your manifold vacuum will be high (low load), if your at 6000 RPM at wide open throttle, your vacuum will be very low (high load). So you see, it isn't just calculated on RPM alone.

This is why I say you can get just as good a tune from someone without a dyno - as long as they know what they're doing.

This raises more questions however - does that mean that coming out of that rev-range, the bike will be sluggish? (or use more fuel going up a hill/against a headwind - well, more than the usual increase)

No, because the engine load will be different as well. For the most part, your tuner will probably make a blanket change to the fuel map based on your mods (Scorpion exhaust), then they will spend extra time in the area you are looking for the most gain. Usually people are looking for more performance, so most of the time is spend at higher RPM/Load areas. For fuel economy, that would be more in the center of the map - mid RPM/Load areas. Which is why this statement was made by your prospective tuner....

I was going to get it dynoed, but the tuner sprouted that the benefits of the dyno wouldn't really be seen with normal commuting, rather in wide-open attack position only.

My thoughts are that if the bike makes more power at a certain rev point, and you don't USE that power, then essentially the bike will be doing the work on less fuel. (= economy)

This is the cool thing about tuning it yourself - you can have the best of both worlds if you spend the time to learn how to tune it. My cage is a 1998 Grand Prix GTP. Stock the sticker mileage was 17 city 26 highway, and it came with a 240HP engine. I built this engine and tuned the car. It's now somewhere in the 320HP range, beats the stock 1/4 mile time by more then 2 full seconds, and I get 18 MPH in the city and have seen up to 30 on the highway. After hard parts, it's all in the tune

 

[FinalImpact]

It's all about air fuel ratios. For example, you may get the best fuel economy at 14.7:1, but the best performance at 12:1. I'm not sure how the fuel maps are based on these bikes, but I'd assume it's like most cars. It's a 2 dimensional table with RPM on horizontal and manifold vacuum (or calculated air intake) on the vertical. So, fuel is delivered based on manifold vacuum (engine load) and engine RPM. If you're at say 6000 and cruising, your manifold vacuum will be high (low load), if your at 6000 RPM at wide open throttle, your vacuum will be very low (high load). So you see, it isn't just calculated on RPM alone.

This is why I say you can get just as good a tune from someone without a dyno - as long as they know what they're doing.



No, because the engine load will be different as well. For the most part, your tuner will probably make a blanket change to the fuel map based on your mods (Scorpion exhaust), then they will spend extra time in the area you are looking for the most gain. Usually people are looking for more performance, so most of the time is spend at higher RPM/Load areas. For fuel economy, that would be more in the center of the map - mid RPM/Load areas. Which is why this statement was made by your prospective tuner....





This is the cool thing about tuning it yourself - you can have the best of both worlds if you spend the time to learn how to tune it. My cage is a 1998 Grand Prix GTP. Stock the sticker mileage was 17 city 26 highway, and it came with a 240HP engine. I built this engine and tuned the car. It's now somewhere in the 320HP range, beats the stock 1/4 mile time by more then 2 full seconds, and I get 18 MPH in the city and have seen up to 30 on the highway. After hard parts, it's all in the tune

Well said!!
What's crazy is I believe Yamaha makes bolt accessories for the ATVs which allow you to connect and mod the maps via PC. I spent some time in the auto world playing with the same stuff you're doing there but on Yoder's. Although most of it was trouble shooting issues before that even begins via the OBDII interface. It's real tempting to do some digging and figure how to talk to the ECM to at least read it. The fact that ecu unleashed remaps the OEM ECM says its not all locked down in ROM so it keeps the bug alive that we could tinker with it.

back on topic: I fully concur that small changes over time made by the owner can get you further than a shop doing it in 3 hours hoping they met your needs based upon prior knowledge.

 

[vinmansbrew]

Ahh, makes me glad I did not get rid of any of my carbed bikes. You wanna tune then? Get a 90 degree angled screwdriver and turn the fuel(or air screw depending on carb model)in small increments with a shop tach hooked up to it.
Idle it for a bit and check your plugs.
Wanna do more tuning? Open the tops up and remove the needles and move the shim to a different slot.
Still need more? Unscrew a jet and screw a new one in.
Sometimes technology isn't always better, just more complex.

On topic now.
Do not tune for a certain rpm range. Why would you do that? You do not always ride in the range. And what are you tuning for?
I assume that the controller tunes in rpm increments, probably 100 rpm jumps or so. If this is the case, a little trick is to tune that set point to its highest rpm possible, and then back it off by about 50 rpm. This gets you fairly lean but not too lean. A little playing with this will probably result in a bit more power but a lean engine is a dead engine.

The other option is to hook a wide band O2 sensor into each header pipe and take readings and adjust accordingly. A MUCH more accurate measurement as far a/f mix is concerned, at all rpm ranges.