Thugs and Hooligans give us all a bad rap

[Jacknife91]

I agree, but I have to say that given from the amount of video that we saw (and I think it is great to have it so we can all form our own opinions) and being a father of a couple of daughters your first reaction is to protect your family. The bikers that come together in a such a large group take on the classic mob mentality, which is the lowest common denominator and usually resorts to senseless violence. Our main concern should be to become mindful of these acts and judge fairly, just because you put on a helmet does not entitle you to engage in lawless acts.
A couple of my observations: Why wasn't the driver's door locked when stopped the second time and it is fortunate that nobody was seriously injured. I am impressed how well the RR's suspension and undercarriage performed however - note to self, do not park bike in path of a Range Rover.

I completely agree with you. At first I was like "Grab your spears and pitchforks, men! We're going to hunt down that Range Rover". Then their violent mob mentality went into play and when I later found out that the driver was running for the safety of himself and his family, and I was completely on his side.

Granted, I would try to avoid the bikes and stay on the freeway, running and eliminating any threat would be my best decision. You should NEVER brake check anyone to begin with, it's just stupid.

I heard from several people that a biker died, but others say no one died, and that one biker only suffered a broken leg. Can anyone confirm?

 

[Ssky0078]

the guy on the bike brakechecked the suv (and failed ... how did he think that would end) and the suv wanted to get away because there was a horde of bikers gathering around him and his family ...

The guy on the white bike cut off(I believe you can call that an unsafe lange change) the SUV, then if you do the math/geometry, you have an under tail LED brake light at about 3 feet and the top of the hood of the SUV at about 4.5 feet, then throw in the length back to the driver seat and the driver height and there was no way to see the brake lights. Not to mention the guy on the white bike was trying to stop on a thoroughfare without any traffic devices indicating the SUV should stop. He

Motorcyclist at fault.

 

[rsmith2072]

It's hard to pass judgement one way or another because the video starts at a random point in time when things have obviously escalated. If the bikes had been harassing the car for a while that still doesn't give him reason to run them over. On the other hand, these groups of idiots are known to get violent and stupid. I wouldn't have run them over, but I agree that they'd be looking down the barrel of a gun if they started bashing on my window.

You said it just right. I wish more people would stop and think about it a little more. This is just all around another look at our society

 

[ped]

I've often wished more people thought of sportbikers as dangerous gangs ready to rip you out of your vehicle and beat the hell out of you. Might be a lot less cutting off and general stupid **** cagers do around us.

 

[Neal]

The guy on the white bike cut off(I believe you can call that an unsafe lange change) the SUV, then if you do the math/geometry, you have an under tail LED brake light at about 3 feet and the top of the hood of the SUV at about 4.5 feet, then throw in the length back to the driver seat and the driver height and there was no way to see the brake lights. Not to mention the guy on the white bike was trying to stop on a thoroughfare without any traffic devices indicating the SUV should stop. He

Motorcyclist at fault.

I don't know what video you are watching.. but that is nothing like what happens in the video posted.

Maybe you watching on a small phone and can't see what happened.


The white motorcycle was riding down the road at the side of the SUV, you can clearly see him braking at the point, his brake light are very bright and intense.

Later he moves over in front of the SUV, he is just riding along at a normal even pace. The motorcycle rider has his hand on his hip looking over his shoulder at the riders to his left. He is not braking at all he is just cruising and the SUV runs up on him for no apparent reason. The SUV drive could not have been looking at the road in front of him, he was probable rubber necking at all the motorcycles around. 100 percent the SUV fault.

Then the SUV instead of stopping and exchanging insurance information, decides to Hit and Run and goes over 2 additional motorcycles.

Not a fan of the mob justice on the cager (beating his windows), should have just took his license plate number and got him send to jail for his crime.

 

[Ssky0078]

I don't know what video you are watching.. but that is nothing like what happens in the video posted.

Maybe you watching on a small phone and can't see what happened.


The white motorcycle was riding down the road at the side of the SUV, you can clearly see him braking at the point, his brake light are very bright and intense.

Later he moves over in front of the SUV, he is just riding along at a normal even pace. The motorcycle rider has his hand on his hip looking over his shoulder at the riders to his left. He is not braking at all he is just cruising and the SUV runs up on him for no apparent reason. The SUV drive could not have been looking at the road in front of him, he was probable rubber necking at all the motorcycles around. 100 percent the SUV fault.

Then the SUV instead of stopping and exchanging insurance information, decides to Hit and Run and goes over 2 additional motorcycles.

Not a fan of the mob justice on the cager (beating his windows), should have just took his license plate number and got him send to jail for his crime.

0:19 white motorcycle cuts into the lane of the SUV (I believe lane sharing is illegal in NY)
0:20 stares down driver (?intimidating with his Icon vest, who knows?)
0:23 First brake check to side of SUV
0:24 gets in front of SUV, slows for no reason other than to impede traffic
0:25 brake lights on white bike for a second time
0:26 we have contact.

The guy was trying to be a hard ass on his sport bike, and he got his buddy ran over for being a douche. I hope that white sport bike guy feels like a POS for the rest of his life and his buddy that got paralyzed has to live with his douchiness by association. If you threaten (read the various articles/reports on the incident and they say these guys started smacking on the windows, even of his little baby's window, and there were reports of these hooligans brandishing knives) a man and his family you honestly get whatever is coming to you. I don't give a crap if you're in a car, truck, RV or motorcycle, if you act like a douche you risk the consequences.

And if we want to discuss the legal portion of it, I didn't see a turn signal prior to the white sport bike, at first lane sharing (illegal), and then second fully merging in front of the SUV. The douche on the white bike was at fault. And only pussies want to blame somebody else when they are at fault.

Rear-End Collision: When the Lead Driver May Be at Fault | by Nolo

"Or what if somebody merges into your lane immediately in front of you without maintaining sufficient speed? These are two situations that can easily cause a rear-end collision in which you, the rear car, will generally not be held liable -- assuming you weren’t speeding or violating some other traffic law."

Add in the fact the motorcyclist was violating several traffic laws, he won't win this case.

 

[Ssky0078]

ohhh and the POLICE arrested 15 motorcyclist involved with this. They didn't arrest the driver, and it sounds like no charges will be filed. It will be fun to wait and see which side of justice this thing plays out.

 

[Neal]

0:19 white motorcycle cuts into the lane of the SUV (I believe lane sharing is illegal in NY)
0:20 stares down driver (?intimidating with his Icon vest, who knows?)
0:23 First brake check to side of SUV
0:24 gets in front of SUV, slows for no reason other than to impede traffic
0:25 brake lights on white bike for a second time
0:26 we have contact.

The guy was trying to be a hard ass on his sport bike, and he got his buddy ran over for being a douche. I hope that white sport bike guy feels like a POS for the rest of his life and his buddy that got paralyzed has to live with his douchiness by association. If you threaten (read the various articles/reports on the incident and they say these guys started smacking on the windows, even of his little baby's window, and there were reports of these hooligans brandishing knives) a man and his family you honestly get whatever is coming to you. I don't give a crap if you're in a car, truck, RV or motorcycle, if you act like a douche you risk the consequences.

And if we want to discuss the legal portion of it, I didn't see a turn signal prior to the white sport bike, at first lane sharing (illegal), and then second fully merging in front of the SUV. The douche on the white bike was at fault. And only pussies want to blame somebody else when they are at fault.

Rear-End Collision: When the Lead Driver May Be at Fault | by Nolo

"Or what if somebody merges into your lane immediately in front of you without maintaining sufficient speed? These are two situations that can easily cause a rear-end collision in which you, the rear car, will generally not be held liable -- assuming you weren’t speeding or violating some other traffic law."

Add in the fact the motorcyclist was violating several traffic laws, he won't win this case.

I have 24 inch HD screen and watch it high resolution. What you are saying did not happen.

There was no brake check at all. He was just riding normal looking around like you should on a motorcycle. The riding was normal, you should be looking over your shoulder to check where your going. The rider clearly established position in front and was riding forward.

Your response only justifies the actions of the other riders at the end. If society is going to be so bigoted that they refuse to acknowledge the obvious, then riders have no choice they have to take matters into their own hands. At first I was against the motorcycles attacking van for the hit and run, now I see they have a valid point... that is all the justice they can hope to get in our society.

 

[Jacknife91]

I have 24 inch HD screen and watch it high resolution. What you are saying did not happen.

There was no brake check at all. He was just riding normal looking around like you should on a motorcycle. The riding was normal, you should be looking over your shoulder to check where your going. The rider clearly established position in front and was riding forward.

Your response only justifies the actions of the other riders at the end. If society is going to be so bigoted that they refuse to acknowledge the obvious, then riders have no choice they have to take matters into their own hands. At first I was against the motorcycles attacking van for the hit and run, now I see they have a valid point... that is all the justice they can hope to get in our society.

Not to flame, but your ignorance baffles me. I guess we must not be watching the same video.:Sport:

 

[Neal]

Not to flame, but your ignorance baffles me. I guess we must not be watching the same video.:Sport:

Get a better monitor, click the corner option of the video and switch it to HD then we can.

 

[Jacknife91]

Get a better monitor, click the corner option of the video and switch it to HD then we can.

I've been seeing the same video as you, I know how to use YT's player, and I don't need a better monitor. I have slightly changed my opinion though. The guy got got rear-ended originally shouldn't have stopped paying attention and kept a steady speed. Also, the dang full video was never provided so we can't tell if an altercation came about before what we can see here.

 

[Gelvatron]

Ladies let's agree to disagree no need to argue about something that does not affect anyone of us personly

 

[Neal]

The guy got got rear-ended originally shouldn't have stopped paying attention and kept a steady speed.

Watch it again. The guy who got hit kept a steady speed on the motorcycle, he did not brake or slow down.

This video is turning out to be a visual skill test.

1) Obviously the rider who got hit did not brake, just look at the brake light not going on.

2) Things to notice: The rider who got hit was maintaining his general relative position with the rider on his right (green bike) and in rider front of him. No, significant changes at all. The rider was not slowing down.

3) The rider with the camera on the motorcycle was accelerating quickly. You can see him gain quickly on yellow motorcycle in front of him who was also accelerating, he had to move to the left to avoid hitting him.


The reason some of you are being fooled into thinking the rider was slowing down is because the rider with the camera was accelerating.

 

[skooter65]

Watch it again. The guy who got hit kept a steady speed on the motorcycle, he did not brake or slow down.

This video is turning out to be a visual skill test.

I don't usually like to get involved with stuff like this but your comment above is clearly incorrect.

Did he hit his brakes? No.
Did he slow down substantially? Yes!

Take a look at the attached screen capture in less than a 2-second time lapse:
*Note: It goes left-to-right, top-to-bottom.


Take a look at the relative distances in the short time period. The guy filming does not really change position with respect to the three bikers in front of him, the two bikers beside the RR, or to the RR itself. Same with the RR; the relative position with respect to every bike around him does not change (or changes minimally).

The only object that changes position is the white bike; he gets further away from the three bike in the lead and ultimately closer (too close) to the RR.

He definitely Slowed! I could argue that it may not have been intentional but, given his stare down of the car in the previous few seconds, i would not be surprised.

 

[lawlberg]

He may not have used the brakes - but.

Stunt bike + large rear sprocket + that type of rider = riding in a lower gear at higher rpms.

You let off the throttle at >10k and you'll slow down quickly - I really don't use brakes that often when I'm riding, engine braking does a pretty good job, but if I do that when cars are around I try to activate my brake light -

It's pretty obvious this guy knew he was instigating and trying to get bumped - the brake light argument isn't really valid. (I'm not saying he doesn't have a working one, but do you have evidence from elsewhere in the video to prove it worked for both his foot and hand brake? - it is a stunt bike after all, and odds are the electrical system is rather botched together)

 

[TheSandman13]

I just watched the video for the first time, and have watched it over again a couple of times. A couple of thoughts.

First of all, anyone defending the motorcycle riders in this case, is (A) probably the same type of rider...ie: young, dumb and clueless. or (B) a complete moron, and (C) doesn't have a wife and kids.

I agree that the Range Rover driver didn't handle the situation very good after bumping the motorcycle. But, under the circumstances, I can sympathize. When you have hundreds of people mad at you, and surrounding you and without any protection, your first instinct is to try and keep your family safe. Maybe he should have just stopped, locked his doors, and called the police, and waited. Easy to say in hindsight. If they then started beating on your car, then you could take off.

I also think there may have been many things that contributed to this, but the the main factor was the initial stupid decision for hundreds of "stunt" riders to take over a main highway in New York city, and ride like they own the road. Nothing good is going to come out of that. I've seen this before, and usually with less riders than this, and it's intimidating if you're in a car. And I've been riding for over 35 years. I also carry a loaded Glock with me in my car, and this would still probably be intimidating to me if I was driving on the same highway. So I can easily see how they would intimidate and scare a young father with his wife and daughter in the car. It is the whole mob mentality. Even the guy who had the camera was in on it. You can see him waving at all the riders as they go by. The kind of gestures that are like "that's the guy, go get him". This type of thing just snowballs and gets worse and worse. If it was 4 guys on bikes, this would have never gotten this bad.

Anyone who says that the driver probably did something stupid, might be right. But anyone who gets on a motorcycle knows this going in, and knows that you have to be a better driver than the people in cars. The wrong way to react is to start surrounding the vehicle and trying to scare the driver. That will only turn out bad.

And for all of you that say you would pull out your gun to defend yourself, there's one big problem there. New York City has the strictest gun laws in the country. You can't even say the word gun without being thrown in jail. I'm glad I live in a state where I can legally carry a gun around almost anywhere I go. But the chances are that the only people carrying guns around in NYC are the bad guys.

This was a bad situation all around.

 

[pulsar2]

When you have hundreds of people mad at you, and surrounding you and without any protection, your first instinct is to try and keep your family safe. Maybe he should have just stopped, locked his doors, and called the police, and waited. Easy to say in hindsight. If they then started beating on your car, then you could take off.

True - and that is what I think the RR did - take off after what it looks like one of the bikers tried to pull the door off between 0:42 to 0:45. Even running over the bikers, I feel the RR took the least damaging path since he could have easily taken out more than 5 bikers right in front of him if he wanted to.

And before the contact, you can clearly see the white bike cutting off the RR in the same lane. That is aggressive behavior and definitely distracting since there are so many bikes around.

This was a bad situation all around.

True.

 

[Nelly]

No, but using helmet (weapon) to break windows and throw glass at someone should end and will result in a violent response. Atleast from me.

We can't take the laws into our own hand. at the same time not one of the bikers called the police.

You see, violence only begets violence. Any normal person would have called the police (didn't the guy in the truck do that?) once that guy tried to drag him out, and busted the glass. Boom, game over, I tried to get away and you pursued me, I was backed up against the wall, and afraid for my life. Time to walk the green mile.

I agree fully, if that was me in the SUV I would have gone full on tactical with my 3 ton weapon. I am only guessing the SUV had to stop due to the slashed tyre.

What I was refering to was the way the mob were intimidating the SUV, they left him very little choice than to get out of there "Fight or flight".
Sadly I bet that the annual ride will come under immense pressure not to run next year.

Nelly

 

[ORBGO]

Can some explain whats the difference between a hooligan and a thug? Its seems the violence came after the driver of the RR took off. He turned that RR into a monster truck. One of the bikers could have been killed. There two sides to every story and the video doesn't show either very well. They where both wrong and responsible for there actions. It could have all been avoided. It seems to me that people are making judgement based on there on biases.

 

[ORBGO]

Can some explain whats the difference between a hooligan and a thug? Its seems the violence came after the driver of the RR took off. He turned that RR into a monster truck. One of the bikers could have been killed. There two sides to every story and the video doesn't show either very well. They where both wrong and responsible for there actions. It could have all been avoided. It seems to me that people are making judgement based on there on biases.