The meaning of life?

[jfreakman]

I'm sorry but this whole 6 day (actually the whole 7 day) business is just too wacky to believe. I dont accept this side of my religion...my priest knows, my bishop knows...and they accept my take on it...even they question the validity of it.

If god created life, then how do you explain all the scientific findings that absolutely rule out the fact that humans were NOT created first as the bible says. Where do the dinosaurs fit into this picture? Did man as we know it now come before the dinosaurs?

I know that one of you guys mentioned earlier that there has been no exact connection between where two species diverged in evolution but I'm sure you are very much aware about Genetic Fingerprinting and the ability of us scientists to tie two species together through the matching of their genetic make up. The human race as we know it did not come from the monkeys, rather we came from a related ancestor that along the evolutionary path created both man and primate. To say that this doesn't exist is just madness...how can you explain then all the fossils that show so many variations in dentition, bone structure and shape? Did god go on a creation rampage in those so called 6 days to get it right (the perfect human form)? If so...then god is not so perfect (que the story about jesus destroying the church when it was used as a market!)

There are some basic things here...God may have created life, but he didn't create man. Man evolved from the first life. If man did get created by god then why isn't man 4 billion years old?

God rested on the seventh day. The world was created in six, man being the very last creation. That's exactly what my last message said! Man was created after everything else.
BibleGateway.com: Search for a Bible passage in over 35 languages and 50 versions.

Genetically we are more closely related to other animals than primates. There was no creation rampage, i'm not quite sure what you meant by that. I think everyone agrees with you that microevolution exists and is in place for species continuation and adaptation. However macroevolution or cross-species evolution has never been fully proven.

I do believe that the Bible speaks of dinosaurs. Psalms speaks about crushing the head of a "Leviathian," which is never fully defined. Isaiah speaks about God using the slithering and coiling Leviathan to punish (although it is usually seen as a metaphor for the devil.) Leviathan can be seen as a general description for dinosaurs. I have tons more information on this if you want.

 

[ped]

i used to be a christian until public school taught me about evolution, the scientific method and logic. that proved genisis a fallacy and therefore the whole thing wrong. i know now the importance of gathering facts then drawing a conclusion, instead of the other way around. ive learned to admit i was wrong and that was the biggest spiritual lesson for me because of the many things it teaches, much more powerful than anything i REALLY got from church. science brought me closer to divinity!

 

[Botch]

I've been out of town the last few days, quite an interesting thread you've started, Bren.

I'm in the questioning mode myself, and have been for ten years or so now. I was raised Christian (Lutheran to be exact) but two things have happened to me that really has me questioning... everything.

The first was moving to Utah in 1995, where all of the sudden, for the first time in my life, I was a member of a "minority" religion. Mormons claim to be Christians themselves (as do the Moonies, and as did the Branch Davidians) but with a whole "third" Testament, and claiming errors all thru the New Testament (just as Christians do the Old Testament) I see them as a different religion. It's very easy for me to point out all the obvious (to me) errors in their beliefs, but after a few years I started re-examining my own, to find the Proof, as opposed to the Faith, in my own beliefs. I can't. It gradually occurred to me, that had I been born to Mormon parents instead of Christian, and indoctrinated from childhood that THIS is the real truth, I'd probably be a Mormon, and KNOW I was right, just as I KNEW I was right as a Christian.

The second thing? 9/11. OK, here's a group of people who were born to Muslim parents; they were indoctrinated from childhood that THAT was the real truth, and then led by warped minds that crashing into the Twin Towers was what God, or Allah, or whatever his name is, wanted them to do.

The Koran is full of really evil direction to murder people who don't believe in Allah. Ok, now, read the book of Leviticus. Same thing. All the organized religions claim to know the Truth, but they can't all be right.

Last summer I read The End of Faith, by Sam Harris. While the book didn't yet make an atheist out of me, he brings up many questions that I can't answer. I guess I'm officially, right now, an agnostic. And I'm still searching...

As to what I am here for, don't really have an answer for that. Don't know if I'll leave it a better place (I've certainly left a lot of trash behind ), I've helped a lot of people but I've hurt some too, mostly unintentionally. For the record I'm almost 48 with no kids, but with overpopulation destroying the planet, is that a bad thing?

Still searching...

 

[Scorphonic]

Nice post Botch, you've said it better than I could have ever said it.

Questioning, questioning, questioning...life is all about open ended questions that will never really have an end. We will always question, which is good coz that means I wont be out of a job in my lifetime!!

 

[nimzotech]

Chop Chop back to the Meaning of Life

It was a very deep and engaging topic Bren brought up; mainly the "Meaning Of Life". I learned a lot from the posts I read in this thread, but it occurred to me that the discussion somehow deviated from the original topic: "meaning of life" to religion, religious texts, belief in GOD, evolution VS creationism, etc...

While I find it easy to accept and see how we often use religion as an integral part of our lives; I have a hard time seeing how it IS the MEANING OF LIFE. It is only fair to examine my own life and experiences as others have done here in this thread. For instance, if I had not been taken to catholic school, had not been taught about the Holy Trinity, Bible, God, Jesus, Mary, Joseph, Adam & Eve, Heaven and Hell, Salvation, etc... I would not believe in the GOD christianity told me about, for He has not spoken of himself to me. I don't consider myself atheist, or agnostic, or catholic. I simply believe that the meaning of life is what WE make of it ourselves. In my opinion, Religion should not be taught, but experienced individually. I don't see any particular Religion more important than others. Killing (whether it is in the name of God or not) is usually not right; unless something threatens our sole existance. With that said I’d like to suggest we stick to the original topic and that is "Meaning of Life" and not religious persuasions

 

[mikebike]

It was a very deep and engaging topic Bren brought up; mainly the "Meaning Of Life". With that said I’d like to suggest we stick to the original topic and that is "Meaning of Life" and not religious persuasions

God is the reason I have meaning in my life. While I am always happy to and can articulate fairly well what I believe I am not presumptuous so as to try to change some body's belief system.... only God can do that. I tend to try to cause them to think.

there are many good principles regarding living and existing with our fellow man. I have a list that I read through nearly daily that covers many points in these 12 areas:
Priorities Attitude Relationships Thinking Health Family
Faith Finances Commitment Generosity Growth Values

as you can see faith is only one component though to be honest it greatly effects the other areas in my life philosophically.

cheers....

 

[teslas]

Your right Nimz. Thanks for reminding us to get back on track.

It is tough if not impossible to keep the meaning of life seprate from Religion. But you are right that we don't need to turn this into a beliefs debate or the like.

 

[craig007]

Hey...this is too interesting to get back on topic...besides I already gave you my meaning of life.

As for the religon thing...I have problems with the bible including the Genisis sequence of events: heavens and earth, water, light, stars had to wait till day 4, sun, etc; A 600 year old man (Noah) gathering 7 pairs of clean animals and 1 pair of unclean animals and placing them on a boat for 150 days (how did he get the animals from the other side of the world?), while every other living thing on earth is killed; someone living in the belly of a fish for 3 days. My issue is that it is either all true or it isn't.

My brother believes that the world is about 6000 years old. I supposed that is it possible for the world to have been created with the rocks having the uranium to lead ratio consistent with a 4.5 billion year old world. The world could have been created with dinosaur bones (maybe they never lived...just bones were tossed about). This may be a true test of faith...throwing in contridictory evidence to weed out the whishy washy.

My mom and I have had many discussions about predetermination. If someone knows the future with absolute certainty, does anyone really have free choice? My mom says yes, I say no. She still prays for me.

I would like to believe, just to be on the safe side. If there is a god, he/she would know that I was faking.

I don't claim to have all of this figured out, but some of the views expressed are similar to mine and some aren't. I enjoyed reading what you had to say, so this is my contribution. When of the great things about this site is that people can disagree without becoming disagreeable

 

[Bren]

This has indeed turned into an interesting conversation. I have to give you credits for having such strong belief (in whatever it is you believe in). To have faith. I guess I was trying to prove a point here, thought I don't know what it is yet. Some of you understood my point of view, I was thinking this on a smaller scale. Maybe I should have placed my question differently and ask what is the purpose of one individual.

 

[HavBlue]

The Koran is full of really evil direction to murder people who don't believe in Allah.

The Holy "Qur'an" says this? Please tell me where. After 9/11 and even now on occasion there will be e-mails floating around that speak of passages from the Holy Qur'an which require some pretty nasty things. After looking at a few of these messages I started reading the Holy Qur'an and in particular the passages mentioned in the messages. Much like the Holy Bible I found the book to be peaceful and loving but it all comes down to interpretation doesn't it?

In terms of life, I want answers to the following questions.

How do you get 4.5 billion years of absolute time into a book less than 3 inches thick?

Man/woman couldn't always speak or write as we know it so how many faults do you suppose there are in the story that was passed down from one species of man to another before said species got to the point it was capable of writing or speaking as we know it?

Man was created in the form of God so which man? Which species of man was God thinking about? If archaic man is the answer then you have a problem as archaic man could not write a book or story and if you say modern man then Eden came along way after mankind had already been around for a very long time.

 

[ped]

just do some acid.

 

[Nelly]

Great post mate,
I am also a searching christian, I still take comfort in the fact that there is some thing higher than my soul on this earth, I count my blessing for my health and family. I am also blessed with a loving wife and four beautiful children. I despise the contridictions that I come across through some Interpretations of the bibles teachings. I actually feel a bit like a closet Buddist, I try to do no harm and treat others as I would wish to be treated. Like most people I have made mistakes on the way.

I think that your genralisation about the Qur'an is a little simplistic. I live in a very mixed community probably 60% christian and 40 Muslim. I do not fear for my life when I walk the streets.
Have blue hits the nail on the head perfectly (quote HavBlue Much like the Holy Bible I found the book to be peaceful and loving but it all comes down to interpretation doesn't it?)
It is very easy to blame or judge the majority by the acts of a misguided minority.

 

[Nelly]

This has indeed turned into an interesting conversation. I have to give you credits for having such strong belief (in whatever it is you believe in). To have faith. I guess I was trying to prove a point here, thought I don't know what it is yet. Some of you understood my point of view, I was thinking this on a smaller scale. Maybe I should have placed my question differently and ask what is the purpose of one individual.

You may well have ended up with the answer "To serve God".
It is a great thread Bren.

 

[DrBart2]

Remember that old saying "I think, therefore I am" ? I believe that that was an ancient statement on existence. Well, I saw a tee shirt that had a saying on it that I loved (wish I had bought it!). It said " Sometimes I don't think, therefore I may not be. :thumbup: Pretty much sums up my existence!

 

[HavBlue]

Folks, I really have to ask something here. This thread is titled the "meaning of life" yet life or the definition of "life" is a quagmire that baffles the finest minds of our time. So, before we can answer the meaning of life question would we not need a definition of what life actually is? At present there are literally hundreds of scientists pushing the limits of biology, robotics, cosmology and who knows what else but they drag along with them a rather simple question with what would appear to require a very complex answer. What is life? Answer this and we may have a basis for determining what the meaning of life is. However, I have a feeling the complex nature of the answer to what is life will bring with it an even more complex definition to the meaning therein.

This is an awesome thread.

 

[madmanmaigret]

God is the reason I have meaning in my life. While I am always happy to and can articulate fairly well what I believe I am not presumptuous so as to try to change some body's belief system.... only God can do that. I tend to try to cause them to think.

Thank you for this Mike! It seems that most religious people I meet always try to push their beliefs on me and that is why I generally turn them off. You on the other hand "cause me to think". Thank you! :thumbup:

 

[madmanmaigret]

just do some acid.

I have but what does "the dirt is ocean" have to do with the meaning?

 

[Scorphonic]

This has got to be one of the best, most entertaining thread here for a while!

Keep those opinions coming. I'm liking the debate! We really are a varied group! :Sport:

 

[mikebike]

Thank you for this Mike! It seems that most religious people I meet always try to push their beliefs on me and that is why I generally turn them off. You on the other hand "cause me to think". Thank you! :thumbup:

I guess working on a farm as a teen I learned that adage about "leading a horse to water but you can't make him drink" was true. As my Uncle (whose farm I worked on) would say....

" If you give the horse a salt lick ...he will find his own water and drink plenty"

The ancient text says: As Christians we are to be like salt and cause people to be thirsty for the "living water" or light to guide them to the source of light.

Well as you know TOO much SALT... is not good and TOO much LIGHT hurts the eyes

I keep in mind that my accepting Christ had his perfectness cleanse my imperfectness and though it made me acceptable to God it was still nothing I did .... rather what was done for me.

I am NOT ANY better than the next guy because He showed His grace to me...

there you have a basic insight to my worldview.

this is a neat thread mainly because it causes us all to think and express our thoughts and questions.

I commend the group for being very positive and tolerant of views that do not line up with their own.

enjoy your day......

 

[ped]

I have but what does "the dirt is ocean" have to do with the meaning?

"Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration. That we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves."