You may call me a skeptic, but why are dinosaur fossils older than the beginning of life as we know it from the Bible?
The meaning of life?
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Because god was just testing the waters, after that he killed them all off and started over again
Don't get me wrong I'm just playing devils advocate.
I am not christian (although I am C of E according to my birth certificate).
I totally respect anyone who dares to say what they believe and defend it.
My wife is a christian, but as to be a christian you have to totally believe in everything written in your scriptures, I can't believe that the bible is any more than a story book, a mixture of fiction, fantasy and history. There are many good lessons to be learned from the bible.
I also find it amazing how many different versions of christianity there are, I mean it is not all clear cut, some faiths put more emphasis on different parts of the bible, and can totally change its message by doing so, for example my cousin is a jahovahs witness. A colleage of mine is presently converting from protestantism to judiasm, although they have many similarities they also have many differences.
Any way after waffling on what I basically wanted to say is that everyone believes there own thing and that's fine by me, there are no simple answers, although I do sometimes question others beliefs, I never diss them about it.
As Grommit so rightly says next time we should post questions that can be answered
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carbon dating (a method used to find out how old stuff is) is not very accurate beyond 50,000 years.
here is a link written by an anti-creationist to show some validity to my above statement. CD011: Carbon dating.
also as to the age of things... a common question : I believe that God created things with "apparent age" meaning the first trees did not all start as saplings or the first animals did not start as baby animals. Man was created as a man not an infant. Rocks sand and such all with age as well.
Once again I appreciate the respectful manner in which this conversation has been conducted
H
HavBlue
Define we. If you define we as mankind then the question that follows is which man as H sapiens sapiens is not Neanderthal. If you say Neanderthal Then we fall back on the necessity for evolution.
The meaning of life is so subjective the answer can only be articulated by the individual being asked the question. If we were to look at life objectively from a scientific point of view relative to the human species the only answer would be "man, woman, birth, death, infinity."
Life? One day at a time. You are born and each day after is one day closer to death. Therefore, it is wise to make each day a day worth dying for.....
Scorphonic
No Man is an Ireland.
Life for me is in the detail, the so called Macromolecular side of things is only possible due to the beautiful, intricate details of the micromolecular aspect of us animals. I am quite religious, I believe in god and in Jesus but I dont believe in the so called "Garden of Eden, the beginning of life". Life in this garden was perfect (human perception of perfection of course)...and was turned around by evil. Life is still essentially about mating, rearing offspring, dying and making sure your genes are passed on. Nothing more and nothing less. Just the added complexity arises because us humans (from what WE are aware) have only the ability to think and dream and HOPE that life is not just that simple. There always has to be an ultimate goal, such as heaven. IF we as humans didn't believe in something higher than us then what sort of life would this be? We wouldn't care about one human from the next, one nation from the next. If there is no heaven when I die, then I'll be happy in myself that I have actually lived my life as best as I could and contributed something to the world through my work and my family. As a scientist I get to see things that many of you will not see...but will hopefully benefit from if you ever need treatment (which would be the end product of my work)...for me the meaning of life will be alot different to someone who observes the world on the grander scale and never gets to see the intricate engine that our cells run on and the extremely complex signalls that each cell sends to its neighbours. My work is on Breast Cancer, each and every day I see cells that have mutated, over grown, and no longer resemble cells of the same type in a healthy specimen. Science got me questioning life, it really did. My thought was, if god really did exist why would such a perfect machine (our bodies) have the ability to become so damaged that it consumes itself. But of course, these questions will NEVER be answered so us humans will keep on wondering.
Life is such an amazing thing!! I dont give all praise to God, "A" God or any higher being for what we have, but it does get you wondering about how on earth such perfection can exist without some higher entity. I am quite sceptical about the bible (please no offense ment to those who love and live it) and my faith really lies on what I see and what I dont understand, yet.
Live, love and laugh!!
Scorphonic
No Man is an Ireland.
Because you shouldn't believe everything you read in a book.
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Scorphonic
No Man is an Ireland.
Its cool to discuss this, your beliefs are very close to my fathers but way way differnt to what i believe. Variety is the spice of life eh!
If god created us as man, how do you explain that in each and every one of our cells there are reminants of bacterial cells which keep us alive (mitochondria). So does that mean that bacteria were created first by god and man created after, but doesn't the general belief lie in the fact that man was the first being on earth?
I have these conversations with my dad quite a bit!!
I believed completely in god as a child, every aspect of the bible, each and every story. I also believed in Santa Claus as a child...until my parents told me the truth. So I lived my young life believing in a fat man that gave me gifts each christmas and all of a sudden the very people who kept telling me that he existed told me he did not. On that same day my faith in god was gone...absolutely 100% out the window...until I started studying science in University. Faith seeped back into my life...to a degree. I accept evolution, you simply cant dispute it! Carbon dating will only accuritely date items that are less than 50,000 year old...but carbon dating is not the only form of dating! Other (highly accurite) radiological isotopes exist in fossils found, and though the analysis of the apparent decay of such isotopes you can date items pretty well. Also you have the geological record, which is pretty accurite. What i'm trying to say is that in my view, god must exist but I wont rely on a 2,000 year old book over fossils that are millions of years old. The fossils most certainly predate that book and definately predate the given date in the bible for the start of life.
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God created man from dust and breathed into him the breath of life. As to the many glorious systems inside the body that function for the most part in harmony ...by design righ down the good and bad bacteria.
as to fossils and age of the Earth.... two words "Apparent Age" God created them with age. Surely that would not be too hard for God --- as was pointed out he spoke everything but man into existance. the Latin phrase is Ex Nihilo = Out of Nothing (that will baffle your mind -- as it should )
as to the Santa Claus debacle ...that is one reason we always told the kids the truth about things.... to me there is no mystery and enchantment in lying to your children. We had Santa stuff on a small scale.... had a friend in a costume deliver presents each year when they asked if that was really Dr. "Picky" we were there to say ablsolutely good guess. --- my sons are now 17 and 22 still firm in thier faith (one after 4 years at univ of FL)
teslas
Member
A man once said:
If you live your life as if there is no God, you die and your right? Then you have lost nothing.
If you live your life as if there was a God, you die and he does not exist? Then you have lost nothing.
If you live your life as if there was a God, you die and He does exist? Then you have lost nothing.
HOWEVER
IF you live your life as there was no God, you die and He does exist? Then you have lost everything.
"You Must choose wisely." -Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade
If you live your life as if there is no God, you die and your right? Then you have lost nothing.
If you live your life as if there was a God, you die and he does not exist? Then you have lost nothing.
If you live your life as if there was a God, you die and He does exist? Then you have lost nothing.
HOWEVER
IF you live your life as there was no God, you die and He does exist? Then you have lost everything.
"You Must choose wisely." -Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade
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madmanmaigret
Mad like crazy not angry
I had a drill segeant share his beliefs with us so i will share them with you (take them as you will)
Once upon a time there was a planet called Heaven that housed super beings. One day a woman had a child that we would call "mentally challlenged" and the council said that they would banish this child to an island so he would not reproduce and create more "mentally challenged" individuals. After a while more children were had with this "defect" and were also sent to this island. One day the island was overrun with all of these children and the leader (God) said to his best captain (Jesus) that he should gather all of the people from this island and take them into outer space and deposit them somwhere where they would not be a nuisance to this great race. So Jesus being the good capitan thet he was went out on his mission. While he was travelling in his space craft he realized that these people were just like him, only slightly different and formed friendships with them over time. So being the good person he was told all the "mentally challenged" that he was bringing them to a great place and one day he would return for them, and then proceeded to drop them off on a planet called "Earth" and went back to his home planet where he belonged. Welcome to Earth you retard!
Hope you at least laughed!
Once upon a time there was a planet called Heaven that housed super beings. One day a woman had a child that we would call "mentally challlenged" and the council said that they would banish this child to an island so he would not reproduce and create more "mentally challenged" individuals. After a while more children were had with this "defect" and were also sent to this island. One day the island was overrun with all of these children and the leader (God) said to his best captain (Jesus) that he should gather all of the people from this island and take them into outer space and deposit them somwhere where they would not be a nuisance to this great race. So Jesus being the good capitan thet he was went out on his mission. While he was travelling in his space craft he realized that these people were just like him, only slightly different and formed friendships with them over time. So being the good person he was told all the "mentally challenged" that he was bringing them to a great place and one day he would return for them, and then proceeded to drop them off on a planet called "Earth" and went back to his home planet where he belonged. Welcome to Earth you retard!
Hope you at least laughed!
W
wrightme43
I believe in a higher power that uses us to do his/her work. My job is to take care of his critters. I do not believe in a vengeful God. I believe in a God of love for no reason other than he can. A God of justice with out Judgement. Basicly you reap what you sow. If you want some corn for dinner, dont plant turnups.
jfreakman
Member
Man was created on the sixth day. This creation came last, after everything else was created, including the animals. Virtually everything in this world has some form of bacteria in or on it. (Consider the human body, which would fail without some strains of bacteria living in it.) Man was created from dirt, which of course is DIRTY. Therefore, it's very possible to believe that humans have bacterial remnants in us.
madmanmaigret
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glad someone found it funny i was nervous it would be taken wrongly.
I enjoyed it too :thumbup:
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And woman was created from the rib of man, please explain that one.
Does this mean that women are inferrior to man, or does it just mean you can't live without em
Scorphonic
No Man is an Ireland.
This is what always baffles me about these sayings. If god does exist and you have lived your life not believing in him then surely the almighty forgiver of your sins and actions will see past the fact that you doubted his existance and welcome you with open arms (or whatever he has for arms!) and so you will not have lost one thing but have gained...
Who are we to say that there is life after death?
Who are we to say that this isn't our first time living?
Who knows....we may just be alive and then dead...and nothing else...just an end to existance.
Scorphonic
No Man is an Ireland.
I'm sorry but this whole 6 day (actually the whole 7 day) business is just too wacky to believe. I dont accept this side of my religion...my priest knows, my bishop knows...and they accept my take on it...even they question the validity of it.
If god created life, then how do you explain all the scientific findings that absolutely rule out the fact that humans were NOT created first as the bible says. Where do the dinosaurs fit into this picture? Did man as we know it now come before the dinosaurs?
I know that one of you guys mentioned earlier that there has been no exact connection between where two species diverged in evolution but I'm sure you are very much aware about Genetic Fingerprinting and the ability of us scientists to tie two species together through the matching of their genetic make up. The human race as we know it did not come from the monkeys, rather we came from a related ancestor that along the evolutionary path created both man and primate. To say that this doesn't exist is just madness...how can you explain then all the fossils that show so many variations in dentition, bone structure and shape? Did god go on a creation rampage in those so called 6 days to get it right (the perfect human form)? If so...then god is not so perfect (que the story about jesus destroying the church when it was used as a market!)
There are some basic things here...God may have created life, but he didn't create man. Man evolved from the first life. If man did get created by god then why isn't man 4 billion years old?
pchbreeze
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"...to live is Christ, to die is gain"
St. Paul
St. Paul
