Strange stalling problem on 2008

[goker]

My bike developed this strange behavior lately. It may have been there for a while, but I did not notice it because it requires very specific set of circumstances to manifest itself which does not happen to me all the time. Here is the issue:

If by bike is at the temperatures that is over 205F (which is on the high side, but still normal on 08, fan does not kick in until 212F on 08s), and I pull on the clutch because I am coming to a stop in a low speed, it stalls. The bad part is this happens at times I don't have enough speed to "kick" start the bike and bike will not start with the starter. If I wait until bike temperature goes below 180F, it starts right back up like nothing happened.

I have read through the "stalling" threads, but, haven't seen anything that describes my problem. Bike runs great otherwise, no hesitation of any kind at any RPM levels, idles in normal 1300 range regardless of the temperatures. Bike stays running if it heats up to 200F range while it is standing still. But, if I start moving and stop, it will stall and will not start again until it cools down.

I ride mostly on highways so conditions that manifests this problem does not happen all that often to me until I am in the city riding through traffic lights at the end of my commute into the city in hot weather and I end up getting stuck in "every" light. So, the problem may have been there for a while, but I may not have noticed it because most of the time I am not stopped long enough for the bike to reach 200F levels.

Basically, bike is not transitioning from higher RPMs to idle RPMs when it is hot. Has anybody experienced this problem with their bike? What did you end up doing to resolve it?

Other than Laser Quads, there are no modifications on my bike for the engine and it has little over 7K miles on it.

 

[tomari]

does the fuel pump continue to work even for some seconds after the engine dies?

do this test 2 times one with the bike in normal temp and one above the 205F temp keep in mind that if you do it just at 205 it will take some time and the bike might cool down so try it at a bit higher temp.

"
To check the TPS values, you have to press and hold SELECT + RESET, then turn the key and keep them pressed for 8 more seconds.

It'll appear dIAg on the display, you can release them now. Afterwards use select until you see a d01 (Diagnostic Mode for the TPS)
Then it should read between 15 and 17 if the throttle is closed,
With the throttle fully open, it should read between 97 and 100.
To leave the dIAG mode, simply turn the key counter clockwise.
"

 

[YamahaMAXdRPMs]

I noticed my bike doing this exact thing when i installed my power commander a few weeks ago. Never did it with out it. Its currently in the shop right now getting a dyno tune. Hopefully that fixes it... ill let you know if he says anything about "why" it does it

 

[Gobs]

I got the same stalling problem (FZ6F 2008) when hot. But I never figured the temps when it happened.
My bike usually idled at stock/original speed just below 1000 rpm when hot.
When engine cold, the bike ran fine. But after 20 or 30 minutes in city traffic and hot weather, the bike began to stall from time to time. And difficult to re-start, needing to give a little bit of throttle to help to re-start.
No problem riding on highways and roads though...

About 1 month ago, and under guarantee, the Yam shop changed the pump relay but they didn't want to adjust the idle at more than 1000 rpm as I requested. So I did it by myself to let it idle at about 1300 rpm when hot...

As I've been very busy these last weeks I can't really say if it's better (not much time to ride). I have a date next week in Yam shop reffering to this problem. I'll let you informed.

Cheers,
Gobs

Oh, and thanks to Tomari for the tips!

 

[goker]

does the fuel pump continue to work even for some seconds after the engine dies?"

At that point the fan is running so I can't really distinguish the fan sound from the fuel pump sound, but, fuel pump relay not working (therefore fuel pump not working) may explain bike not starting up again, but, I don't know why it would not cut off when it hits that temperature range when it is just sitting around.

do this test 2 times one with the bike in normal temp and one above the 205F temp keep in mind that if you do it just at 205 it will take some time and the bike might cool down so try it at a bit higher temp.

"
To check the TPS values, you have to press and hold SELECT + RESET, then turn the key and keep them pressed for 8 more seconds.

It'll appear dIAg on the display, you can release them now. Afterwards use select until you see a d01 (Diagnostic Mode for the TPS)
Then it should read between 15 and 17 if the throttle is closed,
With the throttle fully open, it should read between 97 and 100.
To leave the dIAG mode, simply turn the key counter clockwise.
"

I haven't tried this because I was thinking if TPS is having problems, I would have other indicators across all RPM range which I don't have, but I will verify this just to make sure it is not having issues when the engine is hot.

 

[tomari]

At that point the fan is running so I can't really distinguish the fan sound from the fuel pump sound, but, fuel pump relay not working (therefore fuel pump not working) may explain bike not starting up again, but, I don't know why it would not cut off when it hits that temperature range when it is just sitting around.

my thoughts are: if the ecu kills the engine for some reason it should kill the pump too, if the engine dies and ecu doesn't know it the pump would still work for 1-2 sec

for excample, try the side stand while on gear: engine goes off with pump simultainusly. now try stalling it by letting the clutch lever out while on gear with no throttle: engine goes off, pump goes off after 1-2 sec

try switching the kill switch off and on just after the engine dies and see if there is a change in the sound

I haven't tried this because I was thinking if TPS is having problems, I would have other indicators across all RPM range which I don't have, but I will verify this just to make sure it is not having issues when the engine is hot.

this is the troubleshooting i would do, other, more experienced members might come up withe better ideas, also its a quick check

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

It almost sounds like a vapor lock. At the very slow city speeds, with no fan on, the gas tank is heating up.

When this happens, try opening the gas cap (just crack it loose initially so it doesn't spray should the vent be clogged). If you hear air coming/going its not venting fully. The higher temps at slow speed is heating up the gas tank (fuel too) causing the problems.

My FJR (GEN I) came without any insulation under the gas tank. (The Gen II's have insulation from the factory) The tank would get so hot you couldn't touch it. After installing some under tank insulation, the problem is gone.

Try starting the bike right after opening then closing the gas cap, see if it helps.. You can also carry a spare key, maybe a half tank and keep the cap cracked open for testing purposes. Then duplicate, on purpose, the conditions and see if it helps...

Also, when checking the TPS make sure the #'s don't skip or are missing any inbetween. Also, re-check the TPS WHEN THE BIKE DIES/is acting up. Sometimes the TPS can act up just hot and not all the time...

 

[Gobs]

A few hours ago I tried the TPS checking on the display as mentionned by tomari.
I only get a dI on the desplay and can't get anything more using "select" or "reset": nothing changes or moves... When turning the key off and then on, the display comes back to its "usual" indications...

My bike has been registered at the end of the year 2008, but in fact it's a 2009 model (FZ6F S2). Is there any difference?

Thanks,
Gobs

 

[goker]

A few hours ago I tried the TPS checking on the display as mentionned by tomari.
I only get a dI on the desplay and can't get anything more using "select" or "reset": nothing changes or moves... When turning the key off and then on, the display comes back to its "usual" indications...

My bike has been registered at the end of the year 2008, but in fact it's a 2009 model (FZ6F S2). Is there any difference?

Thanks,
Gobs

Ditto. I can't seem to get to it on my bike either. Mine is definitely a 2008 and behaving the same way. Anybody has any ideas for late model bikes about how to get to the diagnostic mode?

 

[goker]

It almost sounds like a vapor lock. At the very slow city speeds, with no fan on, the gas tank is heating up.

When this happens, try opening the gas cap (just crack it loose initially so it doesn't spray should the vent be clogged). If you hear air coming/going its not venting fully. The higher temps at slow speed is heating up the gas tank (fuel too) causing the problems.

My FJR (GEN I) came without any insulation under the gas tank. (The Gen II's have insulation from the factory) The tank would get so hot you couldn't touch it. After installing some under tank insulation, the problem is gone.

Try starting the bike right after opening then closing the gas cap, see if it helps.. You can also carry a spare key, maybe a half tank and keep the cap cracked open for testing purposes. Then duplicate, on purpose, the conditions and see if it helps...

Also, when checking the TPS make sure the #'s don't skip or are missing any inbetween. Also, re-check the TPS WHEN THE BIKE DIES/is acting up. Sometimes the TPS can act up just hot and not all the time...

This is very possibly what is happening to me. I will try this out and get back to you. Do you think this will be more pronounced when you don't have full tank of gas? Now that I think about it, I think I get this problem more when my tank is less than 1/2 full which may be because it is heating up faster.

Other than heat insulation under the tank, what else can I do to prevent this problem? Any ideas?

 

[tomari]

look under your gas tank there are some hoses sticking out of it. 2 of them are going to the right side of your bike (as you ride) beside the footpeg (u should find 3 there) follow them and see if they are bend or something these are for tank breath/overfill

edit: about diag mode may other members with 08 asist you, just confirmed on my 06 that it works

 

[Ryan T]

look under your gas tank there are some hoses sticking out of it. 2 of them are going to the right side of your bike (as you ride) beside the footpeg (u should find 3 there) follow them and see if they are bend or something these are for tank breath/overfill

edit: about diag mode may other members with 08 asist you, just confirmed on my 06 that it works

I don't think 08 models have that capability (multi diag option). I could be wrong, but I think I remember seeing a post about the lack of options IRT diag with the 08 models.

 

[tomari]

one thing, when displaying "diag" on screen leave then hold the two buttons again for 2 secs or more, this will enter you to diag mode. using reset as up and select as down you can navigate to diag numbers, 01 is the tps one, when on 01 hold BOTH buttons for 2 secs again to enter it

 

[Dr.Moby]

Ditto. I can't seem to get to it on my bike either. Mine is definitely a 2008 and behaving the same way. Anybody has any ideas for late model bikes about how to get to the diagnostic mode?

My '08 does the same thing. according to the HAYNES Manual for '07-'09 models:

1-ignition switch OFF, engine stop ON. Disconnect the fuel pump wiring connector (green wiring connector under the fuel tank).

2-press "select" and "reset" buttons, turn ignition switch ON, keeping buttons pressed for at least 8 seconds.

3-select diagnostic mode by pressing "select" until "DIAG" appears on the clock LCD. The CO adjustment mode will appear as an option at this stage. Confirm selection of DIAG by pressing "select" and "reset" at the same time for 2 seconds.

4-turn the engine stop switch OFF

5- refer to the relevant table for diagnostic codes and data

I have tried the diag method according to the popular post here on the forum, but only got "d01" displayed. I have not run the protocol according to the methods listed here and on the HAYNES service and repair manual.

I will check it out this evening and post my findings.

DrM

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

This is very possibly what is happening to me. I will try this out and get back to you. Do you think this will be more pronounced when you don't have full tank of gas? Now that I think about it, I think I get this problem more when my tank is less than 1/2 full which may be because it is heating up faster.

Other than heat insulation under the tank, what else can I do to prevent this problem? Any ideas?

If thats the problem, you need to make sure the vent lines and cap are all clear and not kinked. If the tanks not able to breath (take in outside air) the fuel pump will not be able to pump fuel. Riding with the cap not snapped down fully will quickly prove or disprove any vapor lock under the same conditions...

The insulation of the tank helped keep the fuel cooler and the gas tank heat bearable (you can now touch it with your legs) while riding. I've seen a Ducati with a buldged out gas tank as the vent didn't vent and literally expanded the tank under pressure(like a ballon)...

Good luck

 

[goker]

Latest updates....

Finally figured out how to go in to the Diag mode after reading few more things which was not in the earlier posts (thanks tomari).

On 08, once you get to the dI mode, you let the buttons go and repress both "select" and "reset" button at the same time while dI is displayed and hold it until d:01 shows up few more seconds. After that it works just like everybody else described. Select and Reset buttons cycles you through the different modes.

Having said that TPS readings 16 fully closed, 101 fully open both cold and hot (while it is acting up).

Opened up the gas cap, still did not start. Also, I didn't hear any hissing sound while I was opening the cap. So, while it would have been somewhat simple thing to cure, I guess it is not vapor lock either.

So, I continued to play and decided see if the bike will start up while in diag mode...

What you do know... after little hesitation, it started and displayed d:01 Er_1 with both engine and temperature lights on and stayed on and no RPM display.

Turned it off and tried to start up again in normal mode and it did not start and in the mean time managed to kill my battery as well (which is about month old). I remember reading somewhere that you can't really stop and restart them right away, because it floods them so latest episode may just be that.

But, going back to the code, anybody know what that could possibly mean? Could I be having multiple issues here? One kills the engine for whatever reason, second I am having flooding issue because injectors dump bunch of fuel in there right about the time the engine cuts off so it is not starting back up.

Oh... Forgot to mention... I can hear the fuel pump priming when I turn the key on... Actually, I found out that you can actually make the bike do that in Diag mode at will.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Per the technical section, (4 section down from the top)- (code faults) on the forum :

Fault code: Er-1
Diagnostic Code: --
Symptom: No signals are received from the ECU.
Probable cause of malfunction:
Open or short circuit in wiring sub lead.
Malfunction in meter.
Malfunction in ECU.

Guess I'd start checking the main harness/connectors to the ECU and look for corrosion or any loose, not fully seated wires...


As for starting after flooding, hold the throttle wide open (with a fully charged battery) and crank it without closing it. It may take several tries but it should start.

 

[remme61]

Anyone got a schematic? Not knowing specifics; Here's My W.A.G.! Hot Ckp or Cmp ; degregated a.c. sine to ecm: Stall and no restart till cooled a bit! The tach should be the dead givaway; It would 0 just before the actual stall! Remember this is just a WAG!!!! Ron

 

[goker]

Per the technical section, (4 section down from the top)- (code faults) on the forum :

Fault code: Er-1
Diagnostic Code: --
Symptom: No signals are received from the ECU.
Probable cause of malfunction:
Open or short circuit in wiring sub lead.
Malfunction in meter.
Malfunction in ECU.

Guess I'd start checking the main harness/connectors to the ECU and look for corrosion or any loose, not fully seated wires...

I guess it is time to take the bike apart again. Maybe I accidently yank something while I was changing the battery and did not notice it so I am getting intermediate connections on ECU leads.

As for starting after flooding, hold the throttle wide open (with a fully charged battery) and crank it without closing it. It may take several tries but it should start.

Hehehe... Yes, having fully charged battery is the trick. I was trying just that when I killed my battery which was not all that happy from my previous starting attempts.

 

[tomari]

just unplug-replug everything around ecu, look for corrosion on the pins also look at the back of the connectors in case any wire pops out when you plug in the connectors i think you'll nail the problem this time! let us know either way!