Rear tire losing traction when braking hard

[g8anos]

holly s**t, on the above video! Awesome footage ..

The general rule for normal braking, is 75% front and 25% rear brake.

From experience, I would say 95% front and 5% rear brake.

Under heavy deceleration, all the weight is transfered on the front tire, which means that the rear tire has almost no traction, since it is lifted and barely touches the road. Even a slight push on the rear brake could cause the rear tire to lock and your bike starts wobbling making it difficult to maintain control.

IMO, if you have to brake really hard, don't push the rear brake at all.. the benefits are minimal, while it makes things very complicated and unstable. When you get used to brake only with your front brakes, then start using the rear brake softly to get that extra 5% braking power out of the rear ..

 

[Motogiro]

Many of you are referring your braking to the track, and there a lot of riders, including myself in a way who are not that advanced in braking in a racing scenario. We are just talking about basics, skill level relatively average, not at a professional level, riding in traffic. For those who are not that advanced, keeping the rear tire lock is the safest way to prevent a high side fall.

Remember this video? 2 minute mark is the crash. Rear tire lock up (panick brake) and then release and away he goes.

YouTube - motorcycle crash part 2

I don't think it was a high side from the rear wheel hooking back up in the conventional sense of a skid. I don't think he ever let go of the rear brake. I think the bike was at the point of no return skidding sideways. He has the rear wheel locked and he's trying to compensate drift with the front as the bike fishtails. The speed and geometry of the bike with the rear tire (sideways) as the bike has turned side ways and the bike flips. The bike reaches a point of very low stability because there is very little gyroscopic action from any turning wheels and the bike is sideways. I bet he's on the front brake as well and the locked rear wheel helps the bike sweep to either side. At the slowest point before the flip, it might seem that he has let off the rear but that's because the bike has slowed it's skid and I believe the front brake is still applied to a sideways moving bike.

I totally understand a panic reaction like that but I believe if he was a little more experienced He would have let go of the rear and he would have avoided going down. If he had let loose of the locked wheel early on the bike would have stayed more stable and maneuverable.

I totally agree with us all doing panic stop practice.

When I feel my rear lock I let it loose and come back more gentle and it has never failed me so far because I can keep negotiating sometimes movable escape routes or holes I can take. Emergency braking is not just the mechanical application brakes. It's a combination of where you're going to go to avoid collision and stopping at the same time. That's the way your instincts should work. You can't get there with an out of control bike and that is what you have with the locked rear wheel.

The nature of your brain in a panic is, "I don't want to die"

The nature of your brain in a panic on a motorcycle should be, " I'm might die some day but it's not today and I don't want to ding up my bike on the way, so I'm going to avoid this collision, stop, ride to 'The Rock Store' and get a beer" :Flip:

 

[crazydmc]

...Under heavy deceleration, all the weight is transfered on the front tire, which means that the rear tire has almost no traction...

agreed, this is the point... that's why there are two big rotors up front with 4 piston calipers on each!

I use front brake only, think of the rear wheel is your "rudder" keeping the bike going straight. you lock up the rear and it wants to "come around" real quick... before you can say "oh sh.."

if your habit is to use your rear brake under normal circumstances, you WILL use it in a panic, and chances are it will hurt more than help.

 

[lonesoldier84]

The easiest and most effective solution to this problem is to disconnect your brake lines.










(Warning: you should not ACTUALLY do this.)

 

[Nelly]

I'm struggling to understand why so many people fail to see that two brakes used properly in conjunction with each other are better than one brake used alone. If you get to the point where your bike is going as fast sideways as you are going forwards it doesn't matter what bake you use. Your are screwed.
If you can't use the back brake properly you need to slow down and practice.
Maybe all the people saying that rear brake use has a minimal effect are the riders that need to practice the most?
Comparing race riding to street riding is a false analogy. Race riders are gaining time at the compromise of safety by rarely using the rear, they are on the edge of their technology and skills. Their goal is speed.
Street riders aim to be safe by using all of the tools at their disposal. Their aim is safety. Confusion between the two will result in adopting bad riding habits on the street.
This thread has really opened my eyes, to the degree of different techniques applied by self assessed competent riders.

Nelly

 

[Motogiro]

The easiest and most effective solution to this problem is to disconnect your brake lines.












(Warning: you should not ACTUALLY do this.)

With out fail!!!! Gets me every time!!!!Bwahahaha!!!! LOL :ROF:
Lone's like a standup comedien! Perfect timing Hahaha! :rockon:

I'm struggling to understand why so many people fail to see that two brakes used properly in conjunction with each other are better than one brake used alone. If you get to the point where your bike is going as fast sideways as you are going forwards it doesn't matter what bake you use. Your are screwed.
If you can't use the back brake properly you need to slow down and practice.
Maybe all the people saying that rear brake use has a minimal effect are the riders that need to practice the most?
Comparing race riding to street riding is a false analogy. Race riders are gaining time at the compromise of safety by rarely using the rear, they are on the edge of their technology and skills. Their goal is speed.
Street riders aim to be safe by using all of the tools at their disposal. Their aim is safety. Confusion between the two will result in adopting bad riding habits on the street.
This thread has really opened my eyes, to the degree of different techniques applied by self assessed competent riders.[/I]

Exactly!! Use the rear brake as intended. If you lock up the front you're going to crash. The bike will stop in a shorter distance with both brakes.
I don't know one rider including self that has not experienced grace in a situation that they didn't have the experience or skill to get through.

 

[Motogiro]

agreed, this is the point... that's why there are two big rotors up front with 4 piston calipers on each!

I use front brake only, think of the rear wheel is your "rudder" keeping the bike going straight. you lock up the rear and it wants to "come around" real quick... before you can say "oh sh.."

if your habit is to use your rear brake under normal circumstances, you WILL use it in a panic, and chances are it will hurt more than help.

If this is true won't you use your front brake the same way in a panic? Locking it up because that is your muscle memory? Now you endo the bike or loose the front.

Both brakes will stop you in a shorter distance. I would agree the lack of skill that you can gain by practice will cause you to panic and fail where you could have succeeded in safely stopping the bike. I would say to you to practice stopping your bike so that it can stop in as short a distance as other bikes. This might keep you from a normally avoidable collision. This would incorporate the use of the rear brake. The manufactures and engineers, insurance companies and skilled riders all over the world would agree the rear brake is a handy device and used properly will help you avoid damage, injury and death.

They even use it on the tracks!!!

 

[Motogiro]

I think the basic theory is the rear loses traction, continues spinning, and slides sideways, it then regrips and throws the bike up

YouTube - Motorcycle Safety - Protective gear in action

This guy is launching himself over the bars on purpose!!!!

 

[MoeDog]

This Tread has very good information its a must read!. I still consider myself a noob at panic stops and general riding. last bike i did a panic stop and my rear tire locked the bike went sideways to my right real quick before i knew it. And i think i let go off the brake cuz i did a mini high side. All i remember was going over the bike, sliding till i hit the curb, and jumped over to the other side of the sidewalk. I think i have to go and practice this now i have all weekend to myself lol

 

[crazydmc]

If this is true won't you use your front brake the same way in a panic? Locking it up because that is your muscle memory? Now you endo the bike or loose the front.

Both brakes will stop you in a shorter distance. I would agree the lack of skill that you can gain by practice will cause you to panic and fail

funny.

well sure, i could lock up my front wheel.. if I were a spaz or a noob, of which I am neither.

A little background for readers to judge for themselves... 30 years riding, commute in traffic everyday, had several bikes, two at the moment, 33,000 miles just on my 07 fz6... so yes, consider me that "self assessed" competent rider with plenty of practice under my belt.

I stand behind my comment, not gonna bother debating point for point, its been done before. (except for the "panic" comment... it's not ME that panic's, its the inevitable "panic situation" i'm referring too, maybe bad word choice...)

safe riding everyone