Promised transparency? Nope.

[dark_isz]

As far as Obama holding Bush to a different standard than himself, he is currently holding himself to the same standard Bush did, until the appeals process has been completed. I imagine he is forcing this issue because he wants the appeal process to be completed, thereby setting legal precedent for all Presidents to release all their guest lists. When the appeals process completes, if he still refuses to release the list, I will be upset, and will let him, and my congressmen know it.

I think you missed this very important point in my initial post, since you didn't respond to it. I stated that if Obama refuses to release the list, after the appeal process completes, I would hold him accountable.
Which, according to you, means I don't have to do a durn thing!
:steve:

 

[Cuba]

Yeah! It's all because of these bastards illegal aliens! I am visceraly afraid and scared of the current situation here, between my DMV closing 2 more days a month, along with teachers getting 5 more kids per classroom, and the potential of a major earthquake, we're near the end here in California... and I agree with you, it's 100% Obama, his secret white house guests and illegal aliens that are the root cause of everything that's not right with the world today.

I'm saying that your system of government, your balance of spending and income, your policies of entitlement and welfare, are grossly unsustainable. Your state is bankrupt, it cannot afford to continue. The democrats are advocating massive state tax increases while slashing services and entitlements, the republicans are calling for an end to welfare, and the people are calling for no new taxes and no cuts to spending. In other words it's a failure, and without a federal bailout you will be out of cash in 50 days according to your elected officials. It will take A LOT more than dmv cuts and more kids shoved into each classroom. You'll see

 

[dark_isz]

You have just stated that you do not think it reasonable for the president to obey the law, protect your rights, or avoid corruption. Thank you for clarifying. This is what I was looking for. There is no line he can cross that you will not defend. You have signed a pledge haven't you?

So back to hypocracy for a moment. You don't expect Obama to have any standards of conduct and find it unreasonable to expect him to uphold the laws and rights granted to us by the consititution and the courts, yet you have attacked Bush for these very things. That is hypocracy.

You didn't answer the question

Do you turn yourself in to the cops for speeding?

Do you hold yourself accountable?

 

[Cuba]

I think you missed this very important point in my initial post, since you didn't respond to it. I stated that if Obama refuses to release the list, after the appeal process completes, I would hold him accountable.
Which, according to you, means I don't have to do a durn thing!
:steve:

He already argued against this very policy while running for office, but now that it is his privacy at stake, he has flip flopped again. This is hypocracy, the term that you are having so much touble with today.

 

[dark_isz]

I voted against him, I spoke out against his policies, and I admitted that he was making mistakes and that I disagreed with him. What is so difficult for you to understand?

That's holding someone accountable? Wow, you're a real hardass when it comes to Republicans, right?

 

[dark_isz]

He already argued against this very policy while running for office, but now that it is his privacy at stake, he has flip flopped again. This is hypocracy, the term that you are having so much touble with today.

ONE MORE TIME! WITH FEELING!

I imagine he is forcing this issue because he wants the appeal process to be completed, thereby setting legal precedent for all Presidents to release all their guest lists.

It's a sly political move. I wouldn't expect you to understand.

 

[Cuba]

You didn't answer the question

Do you turn yourself in to the cops for speeding?

Do you hold yourself accountable?

Not exactly the same thing is it? I'll say this, when I do get pulled over for speeding, which is almost never because I refrain from it on public roads except for the occasional spirited country ride, I admit that I was speeding and accept responsibility. Obama on the other hand, when caught in a lie or otherwise screwing up, blames Bush.

 

[Cuba]

ONE MORE TIME! WITH FEELING!

I imagine he is forcing this issue because he wants the appeal process to be completed, thereby setting legal precedent for all Presidents to release all their guest lists.

It's a sly political move. I wouldn't expect you to understand.

You are grasping at straws now, your arguments laid to waste.

 

[bmccrary]

You guys been married long?

You argue like pro's.

opcorn:

-bryan

 

[Cuba]

That's holding someone accountable? Wow, you're a real hardass when it comes to Republicans, right?

What else should I have done? What am I asking of you? Simple intellectual honesty would suffice, an admission that he has not lived up to the promisses made and is, in some circumstances, expanding his powers beyond what the current laws would allow.

 

[dark_isz]

What else should I have done? What am I asking of you? Simple intellectual honesty would suffice, an admission that he has not lived up to the promisses made and is, in some circumstances, expanding his powers beyond what the current laws would allow.

I dunno what you should have done, you're the one who's hung up on individual citizens holding the President accountable, so you think you'd have a plan on how to do that. Personally, I wrote my Senator and Representatives asking for Bush and Cheneys impeachment when their crimes came to light. I also signed petitions to the same effect.

Well, as long as we're being intellectually honest, I don't think 133 days is quite long enough to make the kinds of statements you make. Has Obama done things I don't agree with? Yes. The Torture Memos should have been released, and Bush/Cheney Co. should be held accountable for those crimes. Other than that one incident, I don't think Obama has done anything worthy of the wrath that you seek to bring against him. You may not agree, and that's fine, but don't ask me to hold Obama accountable to your standards, which I believe are unreasonable.

 

[dark_isz]

Not exactly the same thing is it? I'll say this, when I do get pulled over for speeding, which is almost never because I refrain from it on public roads except for the occasional spirited country ride, I admit that I was speeding and accept responsibility.

So, you don't hold yourself accountable for your actions! You let someone else (a police officer) shoulder that burden! If they don't catch you, NO ACCOUNTABILITY. You are saying it's ok for you to commit murder as long as you don't get caught! Nice example of accountability!

(Not much fun to have words put in your mouth, is it?)

 

[dark_isz]

You are grasping at straws now, your arguments laid to waste.

I knew you wouldn't understand, it's OK. That's Cheney-like subterfuge.

 

[dark_isz]

You guys been married long?

You argue like pro's.

opcorn:

-bryan

Kinda out of place on a motorcycle forum, right?

Why does this forum exist, again? Nothing gets accomplished, nobody's minds get changed, it's full of hate and arguments, yet it continues to exist?

:don'tknow:

 

[Cuba]

So, you don't hold yourself accountable for your actions! You let someone else (a police officer) shoulder that burden! If they don't catch you, NO ACCOUNTABILITY. You are saying it's ok for you to commit murder as long as you don't get caught! Nice example of accountability!

(Not much fun to have words put in your mouth, is it?)

You're lack of concentration is self serving, this isn't the issue. You stated that you find it unreasonable to hold a president accountable. You attacked Bush, wrote your senator to have him impeached for his crimes, but feel Obama shouldn't be held to the same standards.

I'll say it again: You say Bush should be held accountable, Obama should not.

 

[Cuba]

I dunno what you should have done, you're the one who's hung up on individual citizens holding the President accountable, so you think you'd have a plan on how to do that. Personally, I wrote my Senator and Representatives asking for Bush and Cheneys impeachment when their crimes came to light. I also signed petitions to the same effect.

Well, as long as we're being intellectually honest, I don't think 133 days is quite long enough to make the kinds of statements you make. Has Obama done things I don't agree with? Yes. The Torture Memos should have been released, and Bush/Cheney Co. should be held accountable for those crimes. Other than that one incident, I don't think Obama has done anything worthy of the wrath that you seek to bring against him. You may not agree, and that's fine, but don't ask me to hold Obama accountable to your standards, which I believe are unreasonable.

Obama broke the law when he fired this IG, his own law. You cover it up. Now he is backpeddaling and covering himself, coming out with baseless unsupoorted claims against a guy apparently doing his job successfully. The parties being investigated are strong Obama supporters. You find it strange that someone may perceive this as suspicious.

If it were Bush unilaterally and illegally firing a Haliburtin (sp?) IG you would be up in arms. Hypocracy. You hold Bush to a higher standard than Obama.

 

[Wavex]

I'm saying that your system of government, your balance of spending and income, your policies of entitlement and welfare, are grossly unsustainable. Your state is bankrupt, it cannot afford to continue. The democrats are advocating massive state tax increases while slashing services and entitlements, the republicans are calling for an end to welfare, and the people are calling for no new taxes and no cuts to spending. In other words it's a failure, and without a federal bailout you will be out of cash in 50 days according to your elected officials. It will take A LOT more than dmv cuts and more kids shoved into each classroom. You'll see

Sure they're unsustainable in a global economic recession, so some things have to change in order to balance the sheets again... big deal.

Not sure what the link is with Obama's secret guest list (are you really that freaked out by a secret guest list? ), but I was only here to throw some of my bs on top of the existing pile in here, that's all :cheer:

Don't pay attention to me, keep going!!

 

[dark_isz]

You stated that you find it unreasonable to hold a president accountable.

Show me where, exactly, I said it's unreasonable to hold a president accountable? You can't, because I didn't. You just lied.

You attacked Bush, wrote your senator to have him impeached for his crimes, but feel Obama shouldn't be held to the same standards.

I'll say it again: You say Bush should be held accountable, Obama should not.

Obama didn't lie about the WMD's. He didn't cost our nation thousands of young soldiers lives. If he had, I would hold him accountable, as I said earlier.

What did you do when you found out he allowed those lies about those WMD's to be told? Did you write your Congressmen? Did you call for his impeachment? I did, and if President Obama had done the same thing, I would call for his impeachment, and demand he make face-to-face apologies to every American family that lost loved ones because of his dishonestly.

See? Right there, fist page, homie. Nice try to lie, but you got caught. Will you hold yourself accountable and apologize to me now?

 

[dark_isz]

Not exactly the same thing is it? I'll say this, when I do get pulled over for speeding, which is almost never because I refrain from it on public roads except for the occasional spirited country ride, I admit that I was speeding and accept responsibility.

So, you don't hold yourself accountable for your actions! You let someone else (a police officer) shoulder that burden! If they don't catch you, NO ACCOUNTABILITY. You are saying it's ok for you to commit murder as long as you don't get caught! Nice example of accountability!

(Not much fun to have words put in your mouth, is it?)

Here, Cuba, I'll start. I'm sorry for blatently twisting your statement to put the words above in your mouth. I was trying to make a point, so that you may see the flaws in your logic. I don't actually believe you think murder is acceptable, regardless of being caught or not.

 

[Cuba]

Your response to this:

[/QUOTE]In America, we have a set of standards referred to as the Bill of Rights. We have more called The Constitution, and a whole lot more called laws- which are essentially rules that every American must abide by or be punished in some fashion. That would be a good start in terms of accountability. You could say: "I expect Obama to obey the law", as a start. Or "I expect Obama to not engauge in corruption" or "I expect Obama to protect my rights". Are you saying by default that Obama is your supreme dictator and you would grant him the power to do whatever he wants without checks and balances? Where is the line drawn??[/QUOTE]

Was this:

I could say that, but I won't. Because, as I have already stated, I don't expect anyone to live up to unreasonable expectations! Those are blanket statements that have no room to account for unforseeable variables.

For example, "I expect Obama to obey the law", Phsaa! I don't expect anyone to obey every single law.

So I say it again, you find it unreasonable to hold Obama accountable, yet you yourself admit to going to great efforts to hold Bush accountable. Weird. I think that's what they call hypocracy. You know, the word you can't understand and ironically keep referring to when arguing with someone that Obama should be held accountable even to his own standards!

Someone else chime in here, what do you guys think?