Overhauling brake calipers

[Sigg79]

I want to overhaul the front and rear brakes on my 2007 FZ6 S2. It has 4 pistons on each caliper, two small and two larger ones. I need to buy new seals, but I’m not quite sure how many I need of the different part numbers.

Yamaha Part #
5SL-W0047-00 - Rear caliper seal kit Qty: 1
3GM-W0047-10 - Front caliper seal kit large piston Qty: 2
3MA-W0047-10 - Front caliper seal kit small piston Qty: 2

Is it correct that I need two of each kit for the front brakes?

I’ve noticed that there can be quite a difference in price between to dealers on the same part:
Partspak.com: $19.54
Yamaha 3GM-W0047-10-00 CALIPER SEAL KIT; New Part # 3GM-25803-10-00; Motorcycle ATV Scooter Parts

Boats.net: $41.04
3GM-W0047-10-00 YAMAHA CALIPER SEAL KIT $41.04

What am I missing here?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

When I rebuilt the fronts on my 07 was $80.60 on-line for all the seals delivered from here:
( Yamaha Motorcycle Parts 2007 FZ6 - FZS6W FRONT BRAKE CALIPER Diagram ).

As I re-call, your post is correct kit wise, TWO EACH for the fronts. Check the diagram when you open the link, its quite a bit clearer...

At the dealership, over $120.00 for parts. They mark them up considerably....

 

[Sigg79]

Thanks!

When removing the calipers, how do you prevent draining the entire system? Do you put a clamp on the brake hose?

 

[greg]

Thanks!

When removing the calipers, how do you prevent draining the entire system? Do you put a clamp on the brake hose?

just drain it all

i use an air hose attached to the bleed nipple to pump out each calliper, one at a time, with my finger over the other hole

i would recommend pumping them out a bit with fluid in there in case they are a bit tight. Use a block of wood to stop them popping off completely.

use some red rubber grease on the seals too (DO NOT use a petroleum based grease)

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

just drain it all

i use an air hose attached to the bleed nipple to pump out each calliper, one at a time, with my finger over the other hole

i would recommend pumping them out a bit with fluid in there in case they are a bit tight. Use a block of wood to stop them popping off completely.

use some red rubber grease on the seals too (DO NOT use a petroleum based grease)

+1 on most of the above but you can take the pads out (Calipers still on the bike) and pump ALL THE PISTONS OUT until they hit the disc. Then remove the calipers. You may have to add fluid at the MC to get all the pistons out that far..

You'll end up loosing all the fluid anyway, I used a small plastic container (small pop bottle will work with a small hole drilled in the top side of the actual container, NO top). Put the end of the now off brake line in the bottle to drain, secure it to the side of the bike with the hole in the bottle and a part of the forks. Not quite as messy..

You'll likely need an air compressor to get the pistons fully out.

They do make brake specific grease for brake pistons, seals etc. I've used it before (permatex) but found it too sticky and it likes to attract dirt to the pistons.

I ended up using just brake fluid to lube the seals and pistons upon re-assembly.

I'm still getting approx 3 full "free spins" on the front tire so I don't have any extra dragging, the seals are flexing as needed and retracting the pistons as well (as they should)..

 

[Sigg79]

Thanks for the advice!

I don't have an air compressor, hopefully I'll get the pistons out by pumping the brakes. If not I'll have to find an air compressor somewhere.

 

[greg]

I just used a manual tyre pump that had a rubber hose, and put it on the bleed nipple

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I just used a manual tyre pump that had a rubber hose, and put it on the bleed nipple

That'll work but soon as you break the seal on one piston, using hydralic fluid/pressure is a "no go" after that..

Just as an FYI, approx 9 months before I put new seals in, I took the calipers apart and used brake specific grease on the pistons and the old, original seals. It did buy some time but they eventually started dragging again. I purchased new seals and STILL had several pistons, very sticky in the bore, that would NOT COME OUT without air pressure. Remember they were just cleaned and greased 9 months before that..

Once one piston is out, there is a small orifice at the base of the bore to the adjacent to the next bore. I found a pointy style blower attachment WITH a very short piece of rubber cut on an angle fits nicely into the orifice and WILL blow the piston out with an air compressor.

PLEASE put a rag over the piston your working on as it WILL COME OUT FORCEFULLY..

 

[Sigg79]

Just ordered the parts needed.

I noticed that the part numbers have been changed in my order:

"10-3GM-W0047-10-00 : SS BY - 10-3GM-25803-10-00 - CALIPER SEAL KIT

(Superseded by 10-3GM-25803-10-00 with QTY 2)


10-3MA-W0047-10-00 : SS BY - 10-3MA-25803-10-00 - CALIPER SEAL KIT

(Superseded by 10-3MA-25803-10-00 with QTY 2)"

Have anyone had similar experiences when ordering these parts? The new part numbers are not in the online Yamaha parts catalogue that I use. I would have thought that the online catalogue uses the current and correct part numbers for my bike.

I'm worried that the parts won't fit, and these gaskets are critical for correct brake operation.

 

[greg]

That'll work but soon as you break the seal on one piston, using hydralic fluid/pressure is a "no go" after that..
.

yeah, that's why I pop one out, clean it up, replace the seal, put it back in, then do the next one

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Just ordered the parts needed.

I noticed that the part numbers have been changed in my order:

"10-3GM-W0047-10-00 : SS BY - 10-3GM-25803-10-00 - CALIPER SEAL KIT

(Superseded by 10-3GM-25803-10-00 with QTY 2)


10-3MA-W0047-10-00 : SS BY - 10-3MA-25803-10-00 - CALIPER SEAL KIT

(Superseded by 10-3MA-25803-10-00 with QTY 2)"

Have anyone had similar experiences when ordering these parts? The new part numbers are not in the online Yamaha parts catalogue that I use. I would have thought that the online catalogue uses the current and correct part numbers for my bike.

I'm worried that the parts won't fit, and these gaskets are critical for correct brake operation.

I believe they did change/update the part #'s which isn't unusual (I don't have the old packaging with the #'s). Of the seals, one should be a little smaller than the other (less than 1/4" or 8mm) as there's two different size pistons.

As long as their Genuine Yamaha parts, you should be fine.

If you want to double check, pull a caliper off (pistons still poking out) and slide a NEW small seal on the smaller piston and a NEW large seal on the larger piston. It should go on snug (I'd put a little bit of brake fluid on the seal just to lube it).

When assembling, they do go into the housing very snugly and takes some maneuvering. A little bit of brake fluid on the clean piston (flat end in first) and it'll slide right in MUCH EASIER than it came out...

BTW, they look like flattened o-rings, flat on the top and sides, much stiffer too (like a thick rubber washer with super sharp cut edges), their not "gaskets".

 

[Sigg79]

yeah, that's why I pop one out, clean it up, replace the seal, put it back in, then do the next one

Great tip, I'll try to do them one by one with my manual tyre pump.:thumbup:

I believe they did change/update the part #'s which isn't unusual (I don't have the old packaging with the #'s). Of the seals, one should be a little smaller than the other (less than 1/4" or 8mm) as there's two different size pistons.

As long as their Genuine Yamaha parts, you should be fine.

If you want to double check, pull a caliper off (pistons still poking out) and slide a NEW small seal on the smaller piston and a NEW large seal on the larger piston. It should go on snug (I'd put a little bit of brake fluid on the seal just to lube it).

When assembling, they do go into the housing very snugly and takes some maneuvering. A little bit of brake fluid on the clean piston (flat end in first) and it'll slide right in MUCH EASIER than it came out...

BTW, they look like flattened o-rings, flat on the top and sides, much stiffer too (like a thick rubber washer with super sharp cut edges), their not "gaskets".

They are original Yamaha parts. I'll give them a try then. Considered cancelling the order, but not worth the hassle.

"Gasket" might not be the right word, just wrote it in a hurry. I've seen the outer ones when taking the caliper off for cleaning. Looking forward to receiving the parts and get the job done.

Thanks!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Great tip, I'll try to do them one by one with my manual tyre pump.:thumbup:



They are original Yamaha parts. I'll give them a try then. Considered cancelling the order, but not worth the hassle.

"Gasket" might not be the right word, just wrote it in a hurry. I've seen the outer ones when taking the caliper off for cleaning. Looking forward to receiving the parts and get the job done.

Thanks!

You'll be fine with those parts. Just make sure everything is super clean, and the seals/pistons lightly coated with brake fluid...

Please post your final outcome...

 

[Sigg79]

Finally got around to do this job. Still winter here in Norway, so there's no need to hurry.

Used the whole Sunday to get it done. The left caliper turned out to be an easy job, just pumped the pistons out with hydraulic pressure after removing the brake pads. Afterwards I could get the pistons out by just pulling with my fingers. Guess I got lucky.

The other piston was far more difficult. I used the same procedure as the other caliper, so all the pistons were sticking out. But without hydraulic pressure (I had removed the other caliper at this point), they were hard to move. Finally got three of them out using my hands, but the last one stuck. Finally called a friend of mine who is a mechanic. We went to his shop and got all of the pistons out.

Now the calipers are overhauled and the brakes bled. There was lots of old crud on the pistons, which I polished off using Autosol. But I have a few questions.

The front wheel is still slow when I spin it. I changed the brake pads when doing the job. I also let the bike sit over night with the brake applied (stripped it to the handlebar) to get rid of air. Is this likely to improve as the new pads start bedding in? The rotors have not been changed.

 

[PhotoAl]

Don't think the brakes bedding in will make a difference. Be careful the first time you ride with the new pads, they dont work very well. Took mine a good number of miles (50 to 100) before they felt like real brakes. Had to avoid panic stop situations. I have had some drag from the front bearing seals - just remember to grease them well - but not too much.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

What is Autosol, an aerosol degreaser? The additional front brake held activated overnight should help harden up the lever too.


I'm assuming you put at least a little bit of brake fluid on the seals, dust seals when assembling?
Did you check the rotor to make sure its within spec's? If its out of spec's its going to drag.

How many "free spins" are you currently getting with the front wheel off the ground? (centerstand and maybe a sizzor jack under the header)

You can, gently, with a flat head screwdriver, (while assembled) push in a brake pad (away from the rotor) and see if there's one specific piston hanging up. The spinning should become MUCH EASIER..


My "free wheel" spins got looser with time. After the initial re-seal, I got about 3 spins. Right now (about a year later) I get about 4.5 turns. I do, on a regular basis, blow out brake dust, etc, from the calipers/disc's (while still mounted just to help gunk from building up). You'd be surprised how much dust builds up. Wipe the dust off your wheel and multiply it...

I didn't replace the pads when I did my reseal, obviously they need to bed in. I don't know how long it'll take and how much it will help with the free spin...

Just a shot in the dark, is it really cold there when checking them? I would think if its very cold, the rubber seals won't be quite as pliable.

*Also, if the drag seems excessive, crack open a bleeder screw and see if that helps. If it does, your master cylinder or brake lines (I know you replaced the lines) may not be fully releasing pressure to the calipers causing the drag.

 

[tosh23]

here is a vid to help you....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDfNb_9YkcI

and the second part....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC_Id6rgP3g

hope it helps...tosh

 

[tosh23]

here is the rear brake that is binding and stopping the wheel from free movement..

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbP0Iqky7eU]Delboy's Garage, Suzuki Bandit Brake Caliper (Full Rebuild). - YouTube[/ame]

Hope it helps..tosh

 

[Sigg79]

What is Autosol, an aerosol degreaser? The additional front brake held activated overnight should help harden up the lever too.


I'm assuming you put at least a little bit of brake fluid on the seals, dust seals when assembling?
Did you check the rotor to make sure its within spec's? If its out of spec's its going to drag.

How many "free spins" are you currently getting with the front wheel off the ground? (centerstand and maybe a sizzor jack under the header)

You can, gently, with a flat head screwdriver, (while assembled) push in a brake pad (away from the rotor) and see if there's one specific piston hanging up. The spinning should become MUCH EASIER..


My "free wheel" spins got looser with time. After the initial re-seal, I got about 3 spins. Right now (about a year later) I get about 4.5 turns. I do, on a regular basis, blow out brake dust, etc, from the calipers/disc's (while still mounted just to help gunk from building up). You'd be surprised how much dust builds up. Wipe the dust off your wheel and multiply it...

I didn't replace the pads when I did my reseal, obviously they need to bed in. I don't know how long it'll take and how much it will help with the free spin...

Just a shot in the dark, is it really cold there when checking them? I would think if its very cold, the rubber seals won't be quite as pliable.

*Also, if the drag seems excessive, crack open a bleeder screw and see if that helps. If it does, your master cylinder or brake lines (I know you replaced the lines) may not be fully releasing pressure to the calipers causing the drag.

Autosol is just a mild polishing compound. It's effective for removing dirt and corrosion. The guy in the vids tosh23 link to uses it.

I used the lube supplied by Yamaha on the pistons before inserting them back into the calipers. The calipers were cleaned with brake fluid.

The rotors don not have much wear. I don't have anything to measure them with, but there's not much difference between the area where the pads make contact and the areas where they don't. The bike is stored indoors by the way.

I guess I get about one spin after the rebuild. I was hoping for a significant improvement after the rebuild. I’ll give it another try after riding a bit. The bike won’t come out before the middle of March, though. Guess I’ll have time to replace the chain and sprockets and lube the pivot bolt.:Sport:

here is a vid to help you....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDfNb_9YkcI

and the second part....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC_Id6rgP3g

hope it helps...tosh

The brakes have been rebuilt, please see one of my previous posts. I actually watched those vids before starting the job.

 

[Sigg79]

doublepost