I say "no way" to the bail out!

[VEGASRIDER]

I dont know how many of you know this, but years ago (circa 2003) congress passed an act to INCREASE subprime loans so more Americans can have the \"Dream\".

Congress is a bunch of :Flip: idiots.

Alan Greenspan is a :Flip: idiot for keeping the interest rates so low for so long.

Had Greenspan (the :Flip: idiot) raised interest rates, money would not have been so easy to lend to dumb & poor americans.

Homeownership isn't a right of passage. You have to \"work\" for it.

I put the blame fully on Congress and Alan Greenspan.

Also some of you need to spare the drama. Just because a handful of FINANCIAL institutions are failing doesn't mean your mom, dad, etc are losing their jobs. There are PLENTY of companies doing well. The companies that aren't doing so well? Their own fault for mismanaging their debt and companies. Time to become a statistic. Those that lose their jobs? Guess what? They probably were dead weight to begin with and needed to lose their job for NOT doing their job.

As for local govts not being able to collect enough property taxes due to foreclosures and therefore the budgets are underfunded? Here's a notion: Cut the budgets!!

Americans love to come up with reasons why they need more and more money. How about doing MORE with LESS?

Wasteful govts and wasteful Americans will bring the pain onto themselves. Those of us who are responsible will finally get the last laugh. Maybe these idiots can learn something from us, eh?

PS. I own two homes. Both homes? I couldn't sell it for what I bought it. I also own a 401k that has tumbled like crazy. I'm against the bailout - do you know why? I took the risk in buying the homes. I took the risk by putting money into a 401k instead of a CD or savings acct. I took the risk. Am I screwed because of this credit crisis? Do I stand to lose a lot if the bailout fails? YES, but I'm not holding my hand out because I am on the losing end of taking a risk. I hold myself accountable. It's a shame no one else does.

Another good example of people not focussed on solving problems, but pointing fingers: Butch Dyke Nancy Pelosi makes a farking speech about \"failed Bush policies\", etc right before a House vote? WTF is she doing? How about dip**** Nancy stop wasting time on writing speeches that points fingers and find a ficking solution you worthless beoytch!.

I feel so much better.

Probably one of the better posts on this thread, and more importantly, not only accurate, but realistic.

He's correct, these decisions on whether to buy homes, 2nd homes, invest, 401k, etc. are voluntary decision that are "risks" in which the outcome, whether they turn out great or bad, it all comes down to accountability. Yours and the trust you have in the system.

 

[necrotimus]

Funny thing is all those people you want to punish and hold accountable or going to make so much more f-ing money off this market crash then the bail out. Whats the saying buy low sell high? Well considering our economy, in one day, lost over twice the 700 billion planned bailout I would say the market is pretty low. Well guess who has money to invest... the same rich people who you are trying to punish. The market will rebound eventually and those oh so rich people will be so much richer.

Good luck to everyone hope you don't get f-ed.

 

[Jman]

Funny thing is all those people you want to punish and hold accountable or going to make so much more f-ing money off this market crash then the bail out. Whats the saying buy low sell high? Well considering our economy, in one day, lost over twice the 700 billion planned bailout I would say the market is pretty low. Well guess who has money to invest... the same rich people who you are trying to punish. The market will rebound eventually and those oh so rich people will be so much richer.

Good luck to everyone hope you don't get f-ed.

Thanks for the salt!!

 

[nimzotech]

I must disagree in that A. Greenspan was actually one of those that cautioned us about the dangers of having the large banking institutions growing out of proportions. I dont think our economists are to blame, but the banking institutions that offered loans to lenders who were/are not able to pay back. This started a domino effect and everything went down. Anyway the House of Representatives voted against the bailout. We'll see what comes next...

 

[VEGASRIDER]

For those members who have ever defaulted on a loan, or have been late making a payment on anything, this doesn't make you look so bad afterall, since these large financial institutions have done it themselves.

 

[bmccrary]

This would really work, that is
> why it has no chance of being
> implemented!
>
>
>
>
> OK.....here's a plan I could live
> with.
>
> > I'm against the
> $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.
> >
> > Instead, I'm in favor of giving
> $85,000,000,000 to
> America in a We Deserve
> > It Dividend.
> >
> > To make the math simple, let's
> assume there are
> 200,000,000 bonafide U.S.
> > Citizens 18+.
> >
> > Our population is about 301,000,000
> +/- counting every
> man, woman and child.
> > So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab
> at adults 18 and
> up..
> >
> > So divide 200 million adults 18+
> into $85 billon that
> equals $425,000.00.
> >
> > My plan is to give $425,000 to every
> person 18+ as a We
> Deserve It Dividend.
> >
> >
> > Of course, it would NOT be tax free.
> >
> > So let's assume a tax rate of
> 30%.
> >
> > Every individual 18+ has to pay
> $127,500.00 in taxes.
> >
> > That sends $25,500,000,000 right
> back to Uncle Sam.
> >
> > But it means that every adult 18+
> has $297,500.00 in
> their pocket.
> >
> > A husband and wife team has
> $595,000.00.
> >
> > What would you do with $297,500.00
> to $595,000.00 in
> your family?
> >
> > Pay off your mortgage - housing
> crisis solved.
> >
> > Repay college loans - what a great
> boost to new grads
> >
> > Put away money for college -
> it'll be there
> >
> > Save in a bank - create money to
> loan to entrepreneurs.
> >
> > Buy a new car - create jobs
> >
> > Invest in the market - capital
> drives growth
> >
> > Pay for your parent's medical
> insurance - health care
> improves
> >
> > Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean -
> or else
> >
> > Remember this is for every adult U S
> Citizen 18+
> including the folks who
> > lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers
> and every other
> company that is cutting
> > back. And, of course, for those
> serving in our Armed
> Forces.
> >
> > If we're going to re-distribute
> wealth let's really do
> it...instead of
> > trickling out a puny $1000.00
> ("vote buy") economic
> incentive that is being
> > proposed by one of our candidates
> for President.
> >
> > If we're going to do an $85
> billion bailout, let's bail
> out every adult U S
> > Citizen 18+!
> >
> > As for AIG - liquidate it.
> >
> > Sell off its parts.
> >
> > Let American General go back to
> being American General.
> >
> > Sell off the real estate.
> >
> > Let the private sector bargain
> hunters cut it up and
> clean it up.
> >
> > Here's my rationale. We deserve
> it and AIG doesn't.
> >
> > Sure it's a crazy idea that can
> "never work."
> >
> > But can you imagine the
> Coast-To-Coast Block Party!
> >
> > How do you spell Economic Boom?
> >
> > I trust my fellow adult Americans to
> know how to use
> the $85 Billion
> >
> > We Deserve It Dividend more than do
> the geniuses at AIG
> or in Washington DC.
> >
> >
> > And remember, The Birk plan only
> really costs $59.5
> Billion because $25.5
> > Billion is returned instantly in
> taxes to Uncle Sam.
> >
> > Ahhh...I feel so much better getting
> that off my chest.
> >


Email I got the other day from my dad. Who knows where the chain started. But I like the idea!

-bryan

 

[mikebike]

try dividing 85,000,000,000 by 200,000,000 and you get $425

so what would you do with $425 (pretax)

good grief check your math

this is BS

 

[GodSpeedLuc]

craziest idea ever. sounds all good and exciting but its too unrealistic and inaccurate. cant really control what people would do with their money and there would be a lot of controversey. tho i can almost guarantee a lot of the money being put back into circulation.

 

[Cuba]

This would really work, that is
> why it has no chance of being
> implemented!
>
>
>
>
> OK.....here's a plan I could live
> with.
>
> > I'm against the
> $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.
> >
> > Instead, I'm in favor of giving
> $85,000,000,000 to
> America in a We Deserve
> > It Dividend.
> >
> > To make the math simple, let's
> assume there are
> 200,000,000 bonafide U.S.
> > Citizens 18+.
> >
> > Our population is about 301,000,000
> +/- counting every
> man, woman and child.
> > So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab
> at adults 18 and
> up..
> >
> > So divide 200 million adults 18+
> into $85 billon that
> equals $425,000.00.
> >
> > My plan is to give $425,000 to every
> person 18+ as a We
> Deserve It Dividend.
> >
> >
> > Of course, it would NOT be tax free.
> >
> > So let's assume a tax rate of
> 30%.
> >
> > Every individual 18+ has to pay
> $127,500.00 in taxes.
> >
> > That sends $25,500,000,000 right
> back to Uncle Sam.
> >
> > But it means that every adult 18+
> has $297,500.00 in
> their pocket.
> >
> > A husband and wife team has
> $595,000.00.
> >
> > What would you do with $297,500.00
> to $595,000.00 in
> your family?
> >
> > Pay off your mortgage - housing
> crisis solved.
> >
> > Repay college loans - what a great
> boost to new grads
> >
> > Put away money for college -
> it'll be there
> >
> > Save in a bank - create money to
> loan to entrepreneurs.
> >
> > Buy a new car - create jobs
> >
> > Invest in the market - capital
> drives growth
> >
> > Pay for your parent's medical
> insurance - health care
> improves
> >
> > Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean -
> or else
> >
> > Remember this is for every adult U S
> Citizen 18+
> including the folks who
> > lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers
> and every other
> company that is cutting
> > back. And, of course, for those
> serving in our Armed
> Forces.
> >
> > If we're going to re-distribute
> wealth let's really do
> it...instead of
> > trickling out a puny $1000.00
> (\"vote buy\") economic
> incentive that is being
> > proposed by one of our candidates
> for President.
> >
> > If we're going to do an $85
> billion bailout, let's bail
> out every adult U S
> > Citizen 18+!
> >
> > As for AIG - liquidate it.
> >
> > Sell off its parts.
> >
> > Let American General go back to
> being American General.
> >
> > Sell off the real estate.
> >
> > Let the private sector bargain
> hunters cut it up and
> clean it up.
> >
> > Here's my rationale. We deserve
> it and AIG doesn't.
> >
> > Sure it's a crazy idea that can
> \"never work.\"
> >
> > But can you imagine the
> Coast-To-Coast Block Party!
> >
> > How do you spell Economic Boom?
> >
> > I trust my fellow adult Americans to
> know how to use
> the $85 Billion
> >
> > We Deserve It Dividend more than do
> the geniuses at AIG
> or in Washington DC.
> >
> >
> > And remember, The Birk plan only
> really costs $59.5
> Billion because $25.5
> > Billion is returned instantly in
> taxes to Uncle Sam.
> >
> > Ahhh...I feel so much better getting
> that off my chest.
> >


Email I got the other day from my dad. Who knows where the chain started. But I like the idea!

-bryan

:rof::rof::rof::rof::rof:

Wow that's some fuzzy math my friend. It would be $425/person, you were only off by 100,000%

You guys just don't understand the situation. Who are we bailing out? Ourselves. Our ability to grow our economy. Our ability to obtain credit for ANYTHING, car, college education, motorcycle, house, start a business, maintain a business. This WILL effect your everyday life!

 

[nimzotech]

Is this were our country is potentially heading to?

 

[Shafe716]

:rof::rof::rof::rof::rof:

Wow that's some fuzzy math my friend. It would be $425/person, you were only off by 100,000%

You guys just don't understand the situation. Who are we bailing out? Ourselves. Our ability to grow our economy. Our ability to obtain credit for ANYTHING, car, college education, motorcycle, house, start a business, maintain a business. This WILL effect your everyday life!

That started with Dr. Phil. And can i please just put to rest anyone that thinks this is a good idea... I've heard this thing probably 100 times in the past week. If you gave everyone in the country 400k (assuming the math was correct), does anyone understand what that would do to our inflation? it would go through the freakin roof! Our money is worth money because it's scarce, not because it has any value. It's value is perceived. I think the govn't stopped backing dollars with gold in the 40's. So if everyone now has 400k and the average income before this brilliant idea was 50k, that is a increase of 8x. so if your milk cost $3 a gallon before it will shortly cost $24 and so on. this is just econ 101 that most highschoolers are required to take. you don't need a business degree in econ to figure this out.

/rant off

 

[Cuba]

Is this were our country is potentially heading to?

Potentially yes. This is the worst financial situation we have had since the Great Depression but for the moment it can still be avoided, at least minimized, with quick and decisive action. If nothing is done to stop the problem (not enough free capital, too much toxic debt) then the life blood of the economy (credit) dries up. Banks can't loan money any more. My colleage works for a local bank that has already halted ALL new loans. ALL. PERIOD. I heard that this week and it is terrifying. When that happens it's the same as an engine running at full speed with no oil. It is a chain reaction.

It looks something like this: Your sales drop because your customers can't get financing to buy your product, you can't get a loan to pay your suppliers and keep your business going, your suppliers aren't getting paid by you and they can't get loans either, the manufacturer can't sustain these loses and cut hundreds of thousands of jobs, many file for bankruptcy. There are runs on the banks and they begin to fail (catch the new lately?) which means the last bit of capital dries up. The system breaks down completely, panic sets in, the markets are crashed and trillions of dollars disappear over night (catch the news lately?), people hoard their money and wont invest which means there is no growth or progress to get out of the mess, unemployment is rampant, crime increases dramatically, and everyone goes running to the government for a hand out. Except this time it isn't a mere $700B loan, it's not an investment to maintain and stimulate growth, it's a desperate bail out that dries up trying to keep the unemployed, uninsured, starving masses fed.

Public sentiment seems to be punish the fools that did this rather than saving ourselves. There was no crime here! They have done nothing to break the law! These hedge fund managers did what they were supposed to do, make money for their investors within the confines of the law. Congress is what failed us here, for many, many years. Regardless, that doesn't matter right now. We need to deal with this situation NOW to stop the damage and potential economic crash.

If you think for one second that this effects only the rich, or only the financial sector, or only stupid people that bought houses that they can't afford, then you are dead wrong and should get an education before opening your mouth.

Also an important tidbit for all of us to remember: FDIC only has $45B to insure every personal bank account in the country. Where is your money right now? Safe? You sure about that?

Worst case we are looking at a full scale Depression. Best case we immediately buy the toxic debt and relieve the stress on the banks, sell off the assets over the next few years, make a profit on them, accept the loss of inflated values, and move on. Personally I believe that they will come up with a very similar plan very soon, but the delay has already cost us dearly and will make recovery more drawn out and painful. If the run begins before the recovery plan (and it would have already if the masses had any understanding of what is happening) then we are in big trouble.

 

[nimzotech]

...If you think for one second that this effects only the rich, or only the financial sector, or only stupid people that bought houses that they can't afford, then you are dead wrong and should get an education before opening your mouth...

I like your analytic perspective on the economic situation. However, telling people that they "should get an education before opening their mouths" is inappropriate. Just as others value your opinion, that same courtesy would be appreciated from you. First of all, you have no idea about the level of formal education and degrees some have here. Second, members here have several or more higher degrees and quite frankly do not know what the repurcussions of the bailout are; or the extent of harm that can occur if there is no bailout. Education itself is good, but some of those greedy coorporate bankers were quite educated and look at what mess they got themselves and us in to. Be kind dude!

 

[VEGASRIDER]

Wonder what Haveblue's thoughts would be on this matter. Seem's like it would be right up his level of expertise.

 

[mikebike]

hav blue had lots of opinions but little expertise....he was a late in life low level IRS employee

 

[nimzotech]

hav blue had lots of opinions but little expertise....he was a late in life low level IRS employee

Aww, that's not nice. LOL. I was trying to find an email address to Alan Greenspan to see what his take on this was; I was unsuccessful. I guess he's too busy running his consulting firm.

 

[mikebike]

Second, members here have several or more higher degrees and quite frankly do not know what the repurcussions of the bailout are; or the extent of harm that can occur if there is no bailout

I would agree with that statement......then there are those with the following: BS MS ChFC CLU CRPC BFA and CASL hold a Series 7 and Series 66 licenses and who have worked in the financial industry as a money manager for over 21 years and currently manage over 100 million in assets ---

who does understand quite fully the implications of the current credit situation and subsequent liquidity crisis and the far reaching implications if we do not implement some type of recovery plan.

who also understands we will not have a repeat of the great depression --- due to the current restriction on the use of margin and the formation of the central bank as well as several other factors make the meltdown of those proportions nigh on impossible

these are scary and unsettling times but not the time to panic and make statements solely on fear--- good information is essential and hard to find.

I liken the medias role in this like the Weather Channel during a Hurricane...they want to stir you up and keep you waiting on the next word -- not provide good well balanced information upon which you can make rational decisions.

yes there is an odd array of FZ6 owners here.....

 

[GodSpeedLuc]

I liken the medias role in this like the Weather Channel during a Hurricane...they want to stir you up and keep you waiting on the next word -- not provide good well balanced information upon which you can make rational decisions.

dude the media are all having a ball over this. they say the same things over and over again but just a million different ways and i think cnn is the worst. they provide the most information but i hate how they are so liberal. i would prefer independent perspective media but obviously that cant be possible in this american society. "bailout is BAD"... "vote for obama or die"..."palin under scrutiny"...

 

[necrotimus]

You ALL have forgotten the 1st rule... it only works because people believe it works. If enough people panic then it doesn't matter what the market factors are.

 

[nimzotech]

I too always thought that the stock market was based more on speculation than actual figures. And remember that just because one is paranoid does not exclude the point that they may be out there to get you.