Hypermotard 1098!!!

[krid80]

I wish magazines did 0-60 times on motorcycles like they do cars. It would be interesting to see the difference.

What 1/4 mile does a XB12 run?

 

[C-bus Biker]

Crazy Frenchmen..first long skinny bread, then stinky cheese now this...snail with that bike?







Hopefully "Le Tard" lasts longer than my mom's Le Car. :spank:

 

[urbanj]

Yes, it is all your fault :BLAA:



No. HP is not only dependent on RPM only...

Power (hp) = Torque (ft-lb) * RPM / 5252



I don't agree that it's like comparing apples to oranges... they're both engines that were designed to make a motorcycle move forward, and as such, comparing real life numbers (what I experience riding my Buell, compared to what you experience riding your FZ) makes sense.

Based on the equation above, I am not sure either how you concluded that
1200cc = 100HP-84ft/lb
is less "effective" (efficient?) than
600cc = 100HP-46ft/lb

The Buell may be a 1200cc, but with about the same mileage numbers as the 600cc, twice the torque and more HP, where is the inefficiency in real life?

OK I am sure that the more recent state-of-the-art race R6 engine (which is used in the FZ) is more efficient in terms of design characteristics (heat dissipation, weight, size etc...) compared to the 25 year old HD engine, but I am not sure why anyone would care if real life numbers still favor the old POS... mileage and torque are about the only tangible things a rider can experience in real life when it pertains to the engine in his motorcycle... Everything else is marketing imo...



Torque is what you FEEL when you ride (it's what a dyno measures), HP is just a number on a piece of paper (calculated using the torque measurement and the formula above)...

I choose torque




True.

FZ6 = from 0 to 8k rpms = no "humph" and then it suddenly launches... which means you have to wait and wait until you get all the way up there in the tach to have fun, and by then you're usually above the speed limit. Right? (I know, I used to have the problem, which is why I had changed the gearing on my FZ and then ended up choosing a twin).

Buell = humph everywhere, with access to at least 80% of the max torque (84ft/lb) across all gears/rpms. In other words I have access to a min of 67ft.lb at all times (FZ6 max torque = 45ft/lb @ 10k rpms). That's called usable power for the streets...
Yep, my twin will indeed run out of steam before the FZ, but that's well into the triple digit speeds, which I simply don't use on the streets.


The track is a different story all together...

:thumbup:

Push come to shove when they are developing these engines in a spirited or performance application, efficiency over a desired RPM range and RPM's are going to win the day. Comparing the 1200cc XB engine and the 1000cc FZ1 engine may be a better comparison. The FZ1 crushes it in power. The debate of revving it higher or lower is mute because thats how each engine was designed. A tractor trailer driver can't complain his engine doesnt rev or make power at 4000rpm just like a honda s2000 driver can't expect to make power at 4000rpm. But use the engine how it was designed and they both will perform admirably.

I use the FZ6 engine just like I'd use a R6 engine or a R1 engine or a High revving Honda engine. That's what I like. A grunty Mustang or Camaro or big twin doesn't fit my style. I would assume it's like that with "most" I4 600cc or even 1000cc sport(ier) bike owners.

It's compared apples to oranges because for each CC, the FZ6 (R6 derived) engine develops the same hp as an engine twice it's displacement. But comparing it to other engines of equal displacement changes things.

Yes torque output is what is measured but HP is the value taken from torque at the specific rpm. As long as the engine doesn't fall flat on it's face, it will continue to produce more horsepower as the engine rev's higher.

Now the reason the big twin can't rev as high is due to a lot of things. Piston speed and weight of components play a big factor. Big bore, big pistons, bigger rod, longer rod etc. Now it's designed to produce a nice big fat torque curve. Though like I said before, the work done by an engine of the same hp figures will be the same. The FZ6, though it has a wonky area in the 6000 rpm range, still produces a pretty linear HP curve. It doesn't swoop up and it definitely doesn't start really high then fall flat. Choose the right gear, be at the designed rpm and it will go.

At the end of the day this Ducati is monster of a bike regardless of it's configuration.

The 1200cc XB12 engine can't be compared to a 600cc detuned FZ6 engine. Compare it to bikes of equal displacement and it loses.

I found this. A good read. Race Car Book

 

[Wavex]

lol
I'll try to make my point again since a few ppl seem to be turning in circles around it.

- The XB12 engine is a very old design which cannot compete with liquid cooled twins of today's era. We all agree and I've never challenged that point.

- A couple of FZ6 riders bluntly stated that the XB12 engine "sucks" because of above statement, so I (stupidly) challenged their point of view by simply stating that the engine isn't that horrible since it performs great comparably to the engine in their own bikes (it pulls, it's fun, it get great mileage), and that the main difference I see for real day to day street experience is the fundamental difference in feel between an I4 and twin (which comes down to individual taste).

That's it.

If after that your answer is that I can't make the above point because my twin can't be compared to your I4, then OK!

 

[dean owens]

not that it matters... but wavex, i've always understood what you were trying to say. and i think it's a great point.

 

[Wavex]

not that it matters... but wavex, i've always understood what you were trying to say. and i think it's a great point.

Thanks Dean I appreciate your post :rockon:


Here is a video a friend sent me this morning... these are XB12s... go to 1:00min and watch... pretty good definition of what "torque" is


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BgqKZzy-Fo]YouTube - Buell Stunt Bikes[/ame]