False neutrals!!!!!

[Jacobien]

Damnit. Why does the bike go into false neutrals? I was doing about 60MpH and then it goes out of gear and clucks and clangs. It sounds like the gearbox is munching itself!

Is there anything that needs adjustment? Bike only has 14000km on clock...

 

[wrightme43]

Change the oil.

sounds wierd but it works.

More info would help.

I was doing 60 and then it pops out is not much info.

Throttle, accell, decell, what was happening?


Seriously though change the oil and it usually stops.

 

[Jacobien]

Thanks for the reply

I was accelarating up a hill from 20 - 60Mph, taking it to 12000RPM in every gear. Then in 4th halfway up the hill, it just went into "neutral" and made a clanging noise from the gearbox.

I change the oil very often, I read the service manual end there is quite a lot of adjustments that needs to be made.

I will change the oil again, thanks, that sounds logical.

 

[RJ2112]

I would also suggest lubricating the shifter linkage. Hit all the pivoting points, and the seal on the shaft going into the transmission.

If any of that is dried out, or slightly stiff, it will make the shifting much worse than it should be.

 

[Kilbane83]

I've just started experiencing a similair issue. After an oil change, my 2nd gear pops into neutral during moderate-hard acceleration. I have to jam it back into 2nd or sometimes 3rd. I overfilled the oil a bit, which may or not be an attributing factor.. going to drain a bit out tommorrow. But more than likely I think one of my shifting forks might be fubar'd. Seems a few other bikes (haven't heard any other fz's though) have shift fork issues starting around 30kmiles. I'm at 32.2k. The only other thing it could be is the 2nd gear pinion (dog) might be worn out but I doubt it. I'll tear into the tranny sometime soon if I'm still having problems and tinker around. Could be something as simple as a worn spring too. We'll see.

Hrmm.. sorry I didn't really do much to help you but at least you're not alone :thumbup:

 

[OZXJR]

This might sound stupid ,but if your gear lever is set too high it may not engage the gear properly...............don't ask me why I know this ,lol

 

[MG-242]

This might sound stupid ,but if your gear lever is set too high it may not engage the gear properly...............don't ask me why I know this ,lol

BINGO! Adjust your shift lever so that you lift "firmly" up on the lever. Pay attention to how much effort you apply lifting. My bet is that if you are paying attention to your shift, it won't happen. I've found that on a lot of bikes after riding awhile, the foot tends to get a little lazy and may not always complete the shift properly.

One other note - when it does pop out of gear, ALWAYS, repeat ALWAYS, go up a gear when putting it back into gear. Don't ask me how I know how important this is .

 

[Jacobien]

OK, so today I had another false neutral.

I noticed that I cannot touch the shifter while it is happening. I can therefore not up gear like everyone says I should.
The only way to stop it is by pulling in the clutch and then stopping next to the road, then shifting back into 1st.

A while back I noticed that my front sprocket is a bit worn, about 40%. Can this be the reason why the bike goes into neutral?

It only happens under hard acceleration, in 3rd or 4th gear. Even with the clutch engaged, there is still a clang noise.

The bike only has 15400km on the clock, I do not understand.

 

[MG-242]

OOOOOOO! It completely jams and locks and you can't go up or down until you stop? If that's the case I'd say you have a couple of cogs that are not meshing up together either from wear, abuse, or failure which is most likely going to involve surgery (opening the transmission). If it's doing it with a nice firm lift. Does it do it ever when NOT using the clutch for an upshift?

 

[Jacobien]

Oh no, that is what I have been fearing. I don not think not using the clutch will change the symptoms. The bike is 2008 model with only 15,000km on clock. How can the transmission already be so shot? Anyway, thanks for the reply.

 

[RJ2112]

Oh no, that is what I have been fearing. I don not think not using the clutch will change the symptoms. The bike is 2008 model with only 15,000km on clock. How can the transmission already be so shot? Anyway, thanks for the reply.

If your sprocket is showing wear with the very low odometer reading you are stating..... one of two things has happened.

1) You bought a used bike that someone used as a track bike with the odometer disconnected, and it has many more hard abusive miles than indicated.

2) The chain is much too tight. Accelerated wear of the sprockets would indicate too much load on the sprocket. That, and no lubrication on the chain will accelerate wear tremendously.

First thing I would do, is ensure you have the correct amount of free play on the drive chain.

With the bike on the center stand, push the lower run of chain up towards the swing arm. You should very nearly be able to touch the chain to the swing arm. This amount of slack in the chain is critical.... the distance between the front and rear sprocket is not constant, and if the chain is too tight, it will be forced to stretch by the leverage of the 1 meter long swing arm.

The output shaft bearing in the transmission, supporting the front sprocket is also under tremendous stress in this scenario.

Check the free play, and let us know what you find....

 

[Jez]

I've noticed something similar under hard acceleration which may be connected. It will not shift up sometimes. It doesn't give a false neutral so much as the gear pedal just doesn't move. Only solution is to clutch out, re-engage the transmission again, and then it'll change up.

As an example, with brisk acceleration in 2nd, I get up to about 9000rpm, clutch in and move gear pedal to 3rd, but it won't budge. I've tried angling my foot differently, but it's definitely locking up the pedal. So I have to then raise revs and re-engage 2nd briefly before changing up.

 

[SovietRobot]

False neutrals will happen with any sequential transmission like ours.

They are worse when the shift forks are damaged, which can be due to abuse or increased wear.
The best thing to avoid them is to preload the shift lever and BE FIRM with your shifts.

I once hit a false neutral between 5th and 6th at 60mph and it wasn't pretty. I couldn't shift up or down and I could hear the shift forks grinding up against the shift rod whenever i tried to.

 

[Kriswithak]

If its an 08 model you should still have warranty even if its second hand and you got it from a reputable dealer or with logs etc.
If so get them to check it out for you.

 

[hearny]

Hi My 08 bike has been doing the same thing. Started about 1500 miles going in to false neutral and would not allow me to change up or down unless i stopped. for me normally 3rd to 4th gear at high rpm. i had an annual service at 3200 miles and they changed the oil and filter. They also changed the brand of oil to silkolene and it has never done it since. Bike is now on 5200 miles.
i have been told that changing the oil brand is the key?

 

[Bram]

I've had false neutrals twice in my 4000km ownership.
my bike is a second hand 2004 model with 22000km.

the first time i was accelerating hard up to 10000RPM and from there on, I pulled back some gas, and it just went in neutral without ever touching the gear lever or clutch. It was in 2nd gear.

Second time I was doing 140km/h on the freeway in 3th gear, when I popped it in 4th, it went neutral. I pulled in the clutch, and went up one gear, then it was ok again.

I have a service in 500km, I will mention it to the technician and listen what he has to say.

 

[Ridgeback]

False neutrals will happen with any sequential transmission like ours.

They are worse when the shift forks are damaged, which can be due to abuse or increased wear.
The best thing to avoid them is to preload the shift lever and BE FIRM with your shifts.

I once hit a false neutral between 5th and 6th at 60mph and it wasn't pretty. I couldn't shift up or down and I could hear the shift forks grinding up against the shift rod whenever i tried to.

This sounds about right
I had the same symptoms on my Husky,all the selector forks were damaged.
(one even had an ear missing) This was due to me shifting clutchless through the box on trackdays,so it sounds like the previous owner was a bit unsympathetic with their changes.
Upshot was a rebuild.

 

[TAPnTX]

I believe this is a very common problem with Yamahas. I had to rebuild the tranny on an 05 YZF600R that had the Dogs on the gear worn prematurely. When it pops out of gear that is what damages the Forks as well. Was a pretty easy job, but a bit time consuming.

Let me see if I can find my pics of the damaged parts and it will be self explanatory as to why it pops out of gear.

One of the solutions to this problem was to add a shift kit, or to make sure to Firmly shift all the way into gear every time. Some people are lighter shifters than others.


UPDATE:

I could not find my pictures of the damage, but what I documented was replacing a shift fork, the shift drum and 2nd and 6th gears. the Dogs on Second round off, and also where it meshes to 6th. When it pops out of gear that is when it damages the shift fork. I also bought a shift kit that had a stronger spring to make sure it goes all the way into gear. Here is a pic of what the shift kit consist of

Kit contents for YZF600r, would be about the same for FZ6

here is a pic of the damaged shift fork.


You can see here the Dogs are worn on the edges. This gear looks just like the ones in our FZ6's (3 dogs)
Some manufactures use like 5 or 6 to avoid this from happening so easily.






Please note these pics are from a YZF600R rebuild, not he FZ6!!!
But should be about 98% the exact same.


Todd

 

[08fz6]

Its not just Yamaha, We have found that it mostly happens in bikes where the rider is trying to shift too quickly without the proper amount of force. or as said clutch less. My 08 fz6 has 11,000 miles on it and has never had a false neutral. It is mostly due to rider error or abuse. I have also found some people ride with their foot on the shifter and don't realize it. This also causes premature wear and abuse.

 

[TAPnTX]

Its not just Yamaha, We have found that it mostly happens in bikes where the rider is trying to shift too quickly without the proper amount of force. or as said clutch less. My 08 fz6 has 11,000 miles on it and has never had a false neutral. It is mostly due to rider error or abuse. I have also found some people ride with their foot on the shifter and don't realize it. This also causes premature wear and abuse.

I agree 110%, on the old YZF600r's, there were some blowing second gear in as little as 5k miles and others were over 50k miles with out issue.

The factory Pro Shift kit with the stronger spring seem to help greatly.

Todd