Error 33 breaking my bike abroad- urgent help please

[darius]

How did you get home in the end?

The spark plug tool you need is in the Yamaha FZ6 tool kit which comes with the bike from the factory, held in the under seat storage. You may find one of these kits on ebay.

 

[bigborer]

I managed to find a friend of a friend to come with a trailer for 60% of what I was originally quoted. Still expensive but at least he offered good service and earned what he needed to fund taking his GF the seaside LOL.

Didn't get the factory tool kit, will check the local classifieds for it.

 

[bigborer]

Good news- looks like I managed to find (and reproduce a few times for confirmation) the issue - it was a loose ignition coil connector combined with an empty battery.

Bad news- it now makes a grinding noise, similar to a skateboard, coming from the 1st cylinder. Only rode it round the street for 4 minutes, the power is ok but it makes that noise- idle, driving, still makes it. The pitch changes with the rpm.

Any opinions? Had the engine broken for riding 60-70kms in 2 cylinders?

 

[darius]

Good job isolating the original fault. It would be helpful to post a short video

Edit:

You'd also want to pull those plugs ASAP and examine since they've been firing unevenly, take a pic. Replace.

You might be able to borrow a FZ6 spark plug tool from another owner or find another short hinged type elsewhere.

 

[bigborer]

I'll try to post it tomorrow, as my GF will probably kill me if I don't take her out today (after spending another full WE working on the bike/car) LOL.

Makes me a bit sad, I was hoping that after all that work I'd finally be able to ride it again . As soon as I get a spark plug tool I'll check it out with an endoscopic camera, before taking the engine apart.

 

[Motogiro]

Good news- looks like I managed to find (and reproduce a few times for confirmation) the issue - it was a loose ignition coil connector combined with an empty battery.

Bad news- it now makes a grinding noise, similar to a skateboard, coming from the 1st cylinder. Only rode it round the street for 4 minutes, the power is ok but it makes that noise- idle, driving, still makes it. The pitch changes with the rpm.

Any opinions? Had the engine broken for riding 60-70kms in 2 cylinders?

Great news on getting it running!

That noise may be the cam chain tensioner. (CCT) It's a spring loaded tensioner and some people replace it with an adjustable tensioner. be very careful when replacing this. Although it's very accessible you can easily jump a tooth or more and have a problem with out of time valve train..

 

[bigborer]

Great news on getting it running!

That noise may be the cam chain tensioner. (CCT) It's a spring loaded tensioner and some people replace it with an adjustable tensioner. be very careful when replacing this. Although it's very accessible you can easily jump a tooth or more and have a problem with out of time valve train..

I'll look into the CCT as well but shouldn't it have given some signs before failing? Could it be possible that while going on 2 cylinders, the cams did more work forcing the tensioner?

GF swears the noise is like here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDVmZVne13U

 

[bigborer]

Please check out this video I made https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQg1FVhXwh8&feature=youtu.be

Engine was cold.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Do at least a compression test on the engine, a leak down test EVEN better.

It doesn't sound like the CCT to me (which is on the star board side, chain under the smaller cover & valve cover).

You said the engine seems like it still has FULL power?

It is possible that running on two cylinders, with NO spark to ignite the fuel being injected into those cylinders tended to wash
away the oil for the rings.

Check the engine oil level and see if it's HIGH. Also if it smells like gasoline..

 

[bigborer]

Do at least a compression test on the engine, a leak down test EVEN better.

Will try to get a compression gauge and test.

You said the engine seems like it still has FULL power?

Didn't run it past 6000 RPM but it felt perfectly fine. I'd test it more but I'm scared I'd cause it even more severe damage.

It is possible that running on two cylinders, with NO spark to ignite the fuel being injected into those cylinders tended to wash
away the oil for the rings.

I thought about that, but according to the yamaha service manual, when getting error 33 the ECM allegedly cuts injection for cylinders #1 and #4, so if that's correct there should be no piston/rings/cylinder damage...

Check the engine oil level and see if it's HIGH. Also if it smells like gasoline..

Didn't think about oil smell, but it was the first thing I checked and it was at the same level and still reddish (motul 7100 10W40)...

Not sure what else to check... last resort is taking the head cover (and everything else necessary) off, only thing is that it'll take a while to get a torque ratchet and new gasket... Local dealers quoted ~3 weeks for OEM gasket...

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

You can re-use the rubber valve cover gasket (un-less it's already obviously leaking). Just need some sealer for the "half moons" for the valve cover gasket..

I wasn't aware of the fuel cut off with the error, so that's good...

I would do the compression test way before pulling the valve cover... I one of those cylinders are MUCH lower than the others, a LEAK DOWN test will help pin point the actual issue.

Can you first take either a stethoscope or a large screwdriver (up against the engine and direct to your ear) to try and narrow down the noise.

Also, can you post an audio / video revving it some, just so we can hear it, (3-4K). maybe close up and then somewhat farther away. Just trying to help isolate the specific noise.

 

[bigborer]

I'll try to pin point the noise with the stethoscope tomorrow, however I do try to keep the engine on as little as possible, firstly because I'm not sure if running it won't cause any further damage, and secondly because the exhaust sound gets amplified in the small yard and makes most windows in a 30m radius vibrate, making it very likely that some crazy old lady will call the police for public disturbance.

But I can say right now that the noise isn't staying constant (first thing I thought of was that something like the heat shield moved and is upsetting the radiator fan), and that it goes lower (or covered up) from about 5000rpm+.

The compression tester will take about 1 week to arrive.

This is so frustrating... not only can I not clearly identify the issue, but I also seem to be needing more tools I don't have... At this rate, with the time it takes to get the tools and the time it takes to get the OEM parts, I'll get it sorted in early December at best... Already spent about 20 h in this for labor and documentation since I got it home, and it's still not sorted. Turns out the deal on this bike wasn't as great as I originally thought . Seriously considering buying a second, backup, beater bike but I'm afraid I'd get an even worse POS that will fail before I even get the chance to fully repair the FZ... At least my car is (still) running, and all my bicycles are in perfect condition

 

[darius]

This is so frustrating... not only can I not clearly identify the issue, but I also seem to be needing more tools I don't have... At this rate, with the time it takes to get the tools and the time it takes to get the OEM parts, I'll get it sorted in early December at best... Already spent about 20 h in this for labor and documentation since I got it home, and it's still not sorted. Turns out the deal on this bike wasn't as great as I originally thought . Seriously considering buying a second, backup, beater bike but I'm afraid I'd get an even worse POS that will fail before I even get the chance to fully repair the FZ... At least my car is (still) running, and all my bicycles are in perfect condition

You're doing a great job. Stick with it. You'll have that noise isolated soon. :thumbup:

 

[bigborer]

You're doing a great job. Stick with it. You'll have that noise isolated soon. :thumbup:

Thanks for your encouragement!

Took a longer video today. With the stethoscope rod I'm circling the areas that sounded stranger/ more in tone with the general grinding sound. After 4-5 minutes with the stethoscope on it got harder to fully distinguish the sounds...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1DIpp6eAPw&feature=youtu.be

 

[Motogiro]

Thanks for your encouragement!

Took a longer video today. With the stethoscope rod I'm circling the areas that sounded stranger/ more in tone with the general grinding sound. After 4-5 minutes with the stethoscope on it got harder to fully distinguish the sounds...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1DIpp6eAPw&feature=youtu.be

Yes,, I hear cam chain noise. Around 2:50-3:04 when you rev the engine a little. This would mean the cam chain tensioner is probably in need of replacement but it may also need new cam chain guides. I would try to replace the cam chain tensioner first.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I can't really tell but I trust Cliffs hearing, he's heard enough of them...

How many MILES on the bike now?

The CCT is NOT on of the stoutest units on the engine and agreed, I would change that out first (fairly easy), before pulling the valve cover, etc.

The spring inside, over time tends to loose it's tension.
Although the chain is relatively short, it will rattle up against the guides / case with a loose CCT / worn chain...

Should you have to go that far (pull valve cover), I would replace the cam chain while in there along with the CCT- (CHEAP insurance).

 

[bigborer]

Thanks for watching the video!

Yes,, I hear cam chain noise. Around 2:50- 2:54 when you rev the engine a little. This would mean the cam chain tensioner is probably in need of replacement but it may also need new cam chain guides. I would try to replace the cam chain tensioner first.

Also around 7:14 while revving it past a point (~4000rpm) it sounds like it fully stops making that noise, so hopefully it is only the cam chain.

I've taken the cover off, attached is a picture of the chain slack, not sure what a normal slack would be. The right plastic guides seemed in good order, the left one I couldn't tell as the chain was too tight on that side.

I can't really tell but I trust Cliffs hearing, he's heard enough of them...

How many MILES on the bike now?

The CCT is NOT on of the stoutest units on the engine and agreed, I would change that out first (fairly easy), before pulling the valve cover, etc.

The spring inside, over time tends to loose it's tension.
Although the chain is relatively short, it will rattle up against the guides / case with a loose CCT / worn chain...

Should you have to go that far (pull valve cover), I would replace the cam chain while in there along with the CCT- (CHEAP insurance).

Around 44k km / 27k miles, but with a 13y old with 3 previous owners vehicle it's hard to tell for sure.
I'd avoid taking the head cover off as well, but I'm not sure if it's totally avoidable, because the valve clearance should be checked soon regardless, to be on the safe side.


More so, apart from the gasket, the manual also lists as replacement part no15 from here: Yamaha Motorcycle Parts 2004 FZ6 - FZ600SS CYLINDER Diagram -> what do you guys think about it?

 

[darius]

Pic didn't attach. I'd focus on CCT and check valves at the end of the season to enjoy the bike if possible

 

[bigborer]

Hope it attaches now

ps:here is a picture of the spark plug from cylinder 4. Gap is 0,75mm

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Spark plug gap is a little wide but not bad..

How much pressure you putting on that chain pulling it away???

Unless your pulling super hard, it should NOT be that loose and will rattle up against the inner engine.

Right now, the tensioner should be holding the chain taught.

To determine if you can get by with JUST a NEW tensioner, gently zip tie the chain (around both runs so it doesn't move).

Pull the tensioner out AND NOTE if it's ALREADY FULLY EXTENDED (no change in tension to the chain) .

If the tensioner IS EXTENDED FULLY, you need at least a new cam chain. It's TOO STRETCHED for the tensioner to work.
What also gets worn is the REAR GUIDE, (that the tensioner pushes against). Peek at that and see if there's any wear to that.



Yamaha Motorcycle Parts 2004 FZ6 - FZ600SS CAMSHAFT CHAIN Diagram

Cam chain- #5, the long guides 11 and 12, tensioner 6 and gasket 9 should take care of it as well as the short guide you posted above.