Cam chain tensioner - help!!

[Capo79]

Hi guys!

Went to my dealer today to get them to listen to a "new" sound my bike has started making:

The best way I can describe the noice would be a bolt rattling within the motor in a certain rev range just above idle. And the sound only comes when the engine is hot.

The dealer said it had to be the cam chain tensioner, which normally is self-adjusting (as far as I understood). The noice have been identified to come from the right hand side of the motor, below the engine top. It's not valve noice as the sound only appears at a certain rev range. It's not the clutch, no loose bolts anywhere, not the exhaust headers, no vibrating cables or anything like that. It got to be the cam chain.

They wouldn't describe to me what I should look for if I wanted to try to fix this myself, but they indicated it would take them half an hour to to the job.

Have anyone here experienced the same noice and dealt with it? As I said: Bolt or marbles thrown down the motor... It's kind of loud too, and it's defo not the other "normal" sounds the FZ6 makes If any of you guys have a "how to" on this one, I'd apreciate it enormously! Thanks:thumbup:

 

[Motogiro]

Hi guys!

Went to my dealer today to get them to listen to a "new" sound my bike has started making:

The best way I can describe the noice would be a bolt rattling within the motor in a certain rev range just above idle. And the sound only comes when the engine is hot.

The dealer said it had to be the cam chain tensioner, which normally is self-adjusting (as far as I understood). The noice have been identified to come from the right hand side of the motor, below the engine top. It's not valve noice as the sound only appears at a certain rev range. It's not the clutch, no loose bolts anywhere, not the exhaust headers, no vibrating cables or anything like that. It got to be the cam chain.

They wouldn't describe to me what I should look for if I wanted to try to fix this myself, but they indicated it would take them half an hour to to the job.

Have anyone here experienced the same noice and dealt with it? As I said: Bolt or marbles thrown down the motor... It's kind of loud too, and it's defo not the other "normal" sounds the FZ6 makes If any of you guys have a "how to" on this one, I'd apreciate it enormously! Thanks:thumbup:

Well it does sound like your initializer has loosened itself tight.
They want a half hour to fix it?! Do it. You don't want catastrophic engine failure if the cam jumps timing. All depending on mileage and wear, you may need to replace one or more parts but either way get it fixed. A lot of what we hear even intermittently on our bikes is probably valve train noise but when it comes to staying ticking/clacking and sounds louder, it's time to give it some TLC. Fix it now. :rockon:

 

[Airhead]

I've noticed a new noise that sounds about like what you are describing. How many miles on your bike? Mine has just over 40,000 miles on the motor.

 

[stink989]

generaly cam chains last somwhere around 80,000kms on inline 4 roadies. But the tensioner can be pretty unpredictable. How many km or miles on your bike? If it is only the tensioner its a simple job just in and out on inline 4s. If its the chain it means cams out and everything

 

[RJ2112]

There is a thread on here, about someone who reset their tensioner.... the hydraulic pressure had dropped off, letting the tensioner loosen up. He added a few drops of oil, and had to take the tensioner off, and re-install it. Some fiddling involved, but not too bad.

The automatic tensioner is a weak point of the design.... I spoke with a mechanic who serviced a lot of the Yzfr6's based on the FZ6 motor, and that was his #1 most common issue.

 

[Capo79]

Well, the bike has 40.300 km's on the clock now. I guess this noise started somewhere around 39.000.

The mechanic I talked to, told me this isn't a serious issue and that I shouldn't worry using the bike until the 42.000 km service is due (which, by the way, is a redicilous expensive service!! - we're talking 1300$). Besides, this is to my understanding an issue that isn't very uncommon on bikes sharing this motor design.

RJ2112: Do you have a link or something to where I can find that thread? I've searched for it, but the only relevant thread is a guy lubing something, without any more descriptions. This tensioner thingy is unchartered territory for me...

 

[herbis]

The noise you describe sounds correct for camchain/guides/tensioner,Have seen an fz camchain & guides worn out as low as 30,000km, depends on how high rpm the engine has lived at & how often oil & filter has been changed during its life.

 

[RJ2112]

Well, the bike has 40.300 km's on the clock now. I guess this noise started somewhere around 39.000.

The mechanic I talked to, told me this isn't a serious issue and that I shouldn't worry using the bike until the 42.000 km service is due (which, by the way, is a redicilous expensive service!! - we're talking 1300$). Besides, this is to my understanding an issue that isn't very uncommon on bikes sharing this motor design.

RJ2112: Do you have a link or something to where I can find that thread? I've searched for it, but the only relevant thread is a guy lubing something, without any more descriptions. This tensioner thingy is unchartered territory for me...

This is the thread:

http://www.600riders.com/forum/how-tos/27555-little-help-timing-chain-tensioner.html

The thing on the back of the block, on the right side above the transmission is the tensioner assembly. It's sort of a tower with a nut at the 'top', and a flange on the bottom that bolts to the block of the motor with a bolt at each end of the flange.

The link in the thread shows the assembly.

The way the thing works, is it pushes 'into' a shoe, that rides on the chain that drives the cams. That shoe takes up the slack in the chain. The cam chain wears and stretches over time..... much more slowly than the final drive chain; but it wears. Because the cams and crank shaft have a fixed geometry, no slack in the chain is required.....

You could try and 're-set' the hydraulic automatic tensioner, which is what the gentleman in this thread did.

You have to remove the tensioner, oil it, and hold the spring loaded 'foot' back, as you re-install the tensioner. Maybe he'll see the thread and offer some advice.

You could also replace the tensioner, with a manual unit. Instead of relying on hydraulics, you in essence replace the spring loaded gizmo with a bolt. The bolt is adjusted to push the shoe into the chain, to remove the slack. Once that is done, and the bolt is locked in place, no further action should be required.... until the chain stretches more, when you'd have to apply a bit more torque on the bolt.

 

[Capo79]

Thanks a million! Still, as I am an idiot regarding this, is it so that I should losen bolt #7 (without taking it out completely) according to the schematic and get oil in there? If it's that simple, I'll just go ahead and try it right away. Looking at that picture, tells me that it should be possible to lube it like that, or am I wrong?

I have owned this bike since 20.000 km's and I have changed the filter and oil every 3-5000 km's. What the previous owner did to it, is unknown though. However, I can't resist taking the bike up to the 14.000's every now and then, so I guess that might have something to do with it... Still, one would think the bike was built for that kind of riding, or the limiter should've been lower down the range:spank:

 

[RJ2112]

Thanks a million! Still, as I am an idiot regarding this, is it so that I should losen bolt #7 (without taking it out completely) according to the schematic and get oil in there? If it's that simple, I'll just go ahead and try it right away. Looking at that picture, tells me that it should be possible to lube it like that, or am I wrong?

I have owned this bike since 20.000 km's and I have changed the filter and oil every 3-5000 km's. What the previous owner did to it, is unknown though. However, I can't resist taking the bike up to the 14.000's every now and then, so I guess that might have something to do with it... Still, one would think the bike was built for that kind of riding, or the limiter should've been lower down the range:spank:

I believe that's what the guy in this thread tried, and was not successful. After that, he had to take the tensioner off the bike, to re-set it.

The hydraulic lifter style device that is supposed to expand to take up the slack, is supposed to get it's oil from the cam chain splashing on it.... a haphazard arrangement. It has a one way valve on it, that is supposed to keep the 'lifter' inflated to keep the tension in the chain (by pressing on the 'shoe').

If some grit gets in the lifter, or it simply leaks out the oil that it had captured, it will 'deflate'..... or possibly not inflate at the required time.....

The condition is not caused by your operation of the bike.... these things 'go bad' on occasion. The most likely cause of contamination would be not changing the oil frequently enough, or letting the bike sit enough for all of the oil to 'drain down'. (months and months)

 

[Capo79]

Aha.. But you see, the guy WAS indeed successful, but as one would say: Curiosity killed the cat:

Quote Ricko: "I need a little help, Like a lot o bikes my timing chain tensioner was producing some rattling sounds. Per a buddy of mine, he suggested that I take off the top nut and add a little motor oil to it, cause it is possible that the motor wasn't oiling itself suffiently enough. it really seemed to help out, problem solved."

He took the assembly out after he got it solved, and as far as my english goes, I take it he couldn't get it back in (that sounded weird:BLAA

I think I'll try lubing inside that top nut tomorrow, and take it from there:thumbup:

Thanks man!

 

[RJ2112]

Please do let me know how it works out.

 

[Capo79]

Please do let me know how it works out.

I will:thumbup:

 

[Capo79]

Okay then...

I took that bolt out, and lubed the inside with a bit of motor oil. put the bolt back in and fired up the bike and let it run to operating temperature. Still that nasty sound.

So, I figured why not try to wiggle that screw inside the cylinder? I did that with a thin screwdriver, and obviously this cylinder is a goner. No where near as smooth as I believe it should be. It seems that it's clogged up with debris of some sort. Even so, the added oil and a few turns with the screwdriver obviously helped silence the noise, allthough it's not completely gone.

I guess I'll have to replace the tensioner, but at least now I know it's nothing serious:thumbup:

 

[RJ2112]

Okay then...

I took that bolt out, and lubed the inside with a bit of motor oil. put the bolt back in and fired up the bike and let it run to operating temperature. Still that nasty sound.

So, I figured why not try to wiggle that screw inside the cylinder? I did that with a thin screwdriver, and obviously this cylinder is a goner. No where near as smooth as I believe it should be. It seems that it's clogged up with debris of some sort. Even so, the added oil and a few turns with the screwdriver obviously helped silence the noise, allthough it's not completely gone.

I guess I'll have to replace the tensioner, but at least now I know it's nothing serious:thumbup:

It may be more serious than you think..... If the cams skip a tooth (or two) the timing of the valves will be affected. They will potentially strike the piston, if that tooth skipping occurs. Should contact be made, major engine damage will follow.

I'd be gentle with the RPM, until you have the replacement installed....

 

[Capo79]

It may be more serious than you think..... If the cams skip a tooth (or two) the timing of the valves will be affected. They will potentially strike the piston, if that tooth skipping occurs. Should contact be made, major engine damage will follow.

I'd be gentle with the RPM, until you have the replacement installed....

Yup, I've thought about that. But I reckon the mechanic I spoke with at the dealer is trustworthy when he told me this isn't a serious issue.

Regardless, I will open up the cam chain panel today and have a look at it. If there's a slack chain I will deal with it sooner rather than later

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I believe the tensioner is like the FJR. It uses a wound up spring to keep pressure on a pad (that rubs up against the cam chain). If the tensioner sticks, it needs to be replaced.

If the spring breaks while running you will most likely have the chain slip a tooth and cause major engine damage. Two FJR's (another forum) had the spring fail, one spring actually broke(a 2004). Both engines were toast after that and were replaced.

If its that noisy, I would REPLACE it immediatly. To keep running it is gambling, big time... Its not hard to change out..

Its a good idea to pull that side cover and look at the guides and measure chain wear as well (also not hard to do)

 

[Motogiro]

It may be more serious than you think..... If the cams skip a tooth (or two) the timing of the valves will be affected. They will potentially strike the piston, if that tooth skipping occurs. Should contact be made, major engine damage will follow.

I'd be gentle with the RPM, until you have the replacement installed....

This what I was kinda trying to say in the beginning of this post. My 06 FZ6 had a bolt and nut that you could adjust. My R1 doesn't and to add to that it's a hydraulic type. Here's where I would worry a little. On the R1 forum there's a thread about the 09 R1's having some problems with the hydraulic automatic cam tensioners. Not all, but some. From what I've read, some have had catastrophic engine failure because of the cam going out of time due to improper tension on the chain. These are basically new bikes and from what I've read there is controversy with the dealerships on this as a factory recall. I mean, if the guy that told you to go ahead and ride your bike that way would have to pay the difference for an engine rebuild I would advise you to continue. There's no way he's going to pay for it. You are. Your motor should not make a lot of noise.
Good luck with this!

 

[Capo79]

Allright, allright:BLAA:

I'll replace the cam chain tensioner

Let me just underline that the noise I'm talking about is only audible at a VERY narrow rev range. It's in the area somewhere around 2000 and 2500 rpm's. Not on idle and not in the higher rev ranges. Therefore, I'm supposing that the chain doesn't have too much slack (if any - haven't had the time to check yet. Will do that this afternoon) and that there's no immidiate danger of a catastrophic engine failure.

But I'll replace that damn thing

 

[RJ2112]

This what I was kinda trying to say in the beginning of this post. My 06 FZ6 had a bolt and nut that you could adjust. My R1 doesn't and to add to that it's a hydraulic type. Here's where I would worry a little. On the R1 forum there's a thread about the 09 R1's having some problems with the hydraulic automatic cam tensioners. Not all, but some. From what I've read, some have had catastrophic engine failure because of the cam going out of time due to improper tension on the chain. These are basically new bikes and from what I've read there is controversy with the dealerships on this as a factory recall. I mean, if the guy that told you to go ahead and ride your bike that way would have to pay the difference for an engine rebuild I would advise you to continue. There's no way he's going to pay for it. You are. Your motor should not make a lot of noise.
Good luck with this!

So, someone had already replace the cam chain tensioner on your bike, with a manual unit...... I hear that's the best solution. OEM, the FZ6 uses a hydraulic unit, just like the FZ1.