Bike has been sitting for quite a long time and now won't start

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Most of the tenders I see look at the battery voltage and completely stop charging the battery so that there is not even a trickle charge. When the tender sees the voltage drop it trickle charges and keeps it topped off with out any harm to the battery.
Most of the batteries are sealed and I think you'd have to pump some current through them to get them dried out...
I think he's having a problem with the engine starting with no complaint about the battery or cranking..

+1 on the above.

The tender will stop charging once it meets a certain voltage or time out... Unless you have an older unit that DOES NOT MAINTAIN (voltage drops once the batties fully charged), leaving the tender on will be fine...

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Well it's been over 35 the past few days but the next couple days it's going to drop under 30 and get really cold here.

What do you guys think about 1 year old gas? If it's not a big deal, I'd rather not go through the hassle of emptying the tank and refilling with new. But at the same time, I'd rather do things right and spend more time instead of taking shortcuts. I do plan on keeping this bike for quite a while.

I have a brand new can of Seafoam that I've had for a while now. I also have fresh Stabil that I used to winterize my other bike with. I just didn't want to start adding stuff since I've never dealt with a fuel problem like I mentioned before.

If that fuel has NOT BEEN TREATED, that fuel NEEDS TO COME OUT, period. Fuel will go bad in as little as a month, year old fuel will gum/varnish everything up...

I personally would pull the tank and flip it upside down making sure every drop is out... Even if you got it fired up it'll run crappy, JUST FROM THAT FUEL... Its much easier to do that than to start pulling injectors, fuel rails etc to save a half hour...

Seafoam is good stuff (I use it regularly in all my machines), IMHO, Chevron Tectron does a better job cleaning the system (not stabilizing the fuel). Walmart and most auto stores carry it.. Seafoam, especially in a heavy dose, IMHO, does about the best job stabilizing fuel short of using a marine product

K100 K100 Fuel Treatment : Fuel Additive, Fuel Saver is kind of expensive but works the best of all products again IMHO. I used it in my boat with a 50 ballon built in tank that had some moisture built up in it over time (since 1997). It doesn't eliminate the water (nothing does), it mixes it with the fuel so it'll burn out. After initially finding droplets of water in the unit that holds the FI pump I started using the K100. After a while the droplets LITERALLY disappeared!!! The boat always ran good but now runs great!!! Well worth the money.. (the boat has since been repowered with a Yamaha F150 4 stroke)

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Thanks guys for the responses so far. I'm going to re-read through them all and start trying to work on the bike.

To answer the question above, I'm guessing I'll only be able to see the very top of the inside of the tank correct? As in when I open the gas cap at the top of the tank and look straight down? If so, it looks perfect, no signs of rust at all.

What are some other ways I can check for spark? I just looked up ether and it looks like there's a lot of people in the US saying it is hard to get. Or if you guys know of a good post you can point me to that gives me some detailed instructions that would be great. Thanks for the info Motogiro, but again, I have no experience in this area. When you mention giving a shot of ether in the air box snorkel, I would need a little more instruction. I obviously know what the airbox is, but that's about it. I'm not sure where I would shoot the ether. When I do shoot some ether (or whatever else I could use), would I then just try starting to bike to see if it fires? If it does fire, how big or small are we talking about here? Just not sure what to expect. Sorry for my ignorance here. Again, I'm handy with stuff if I know what I'm doing or if I have some good direction. I just want to make sure I know exactly what I'm doing so I'm not guessing and do something stupid to make the bike worse.

You can easily check for spark by pulling the #4 cap (furthest to the right side) and attaching it to a known good spark plug (even a lawn mower plug, etc as long as it snaps in fully). Make sure its grounded good and crank the bike over. You should see the spark easily. You check the adjacent #3 wire as well to check both coils. Very quick and easy. If you have a timing light, you can put the spark plug lead ove the spark plug wire (don't disconnect from the plug) and again crank over looking for the timing light to illuminate.

 

[tasop7]

Ok, so the first thing I wanted to tackle was getting rid of all the old gas. I used a $3 siphon I bought at Walmart and drained most the gas with a little left in the tank. I unhooked all the connectors / hoses and took the tank off the bike. I then took out the fuel pump to inspect the inside of the tank. I noticed several things but they might be normal... I'll let you guys tell me what you think.

Here's a shot through the fuel pump hole at the bottom of the tank looking towards the top of the tank. It's a little hard to tell, but I'm not sure if that's actually a bit of rust forming or not. When you look inside, it almost just looks like a "worn down" area, not rust. But again, it's hard to tell/see.

Here's a shot down into the remainder of the gas. I found that there was what looks like little metal shavings. Is this normal?

Next is a pic of where the fuel tank drain hose connect to the tank. As you can see, there's a bit of rust forming inside. Anything to worry about?

Finally, while I'm at it, I'm just checking everything lol. Here's the air filter which is not due for a replacement for another 2,000 miles or so. What do you think?

I noticed the fuel pump had some small debris on it as well. I read elsewhere on the form that if any was found to just blow it off with compressed air. I didn't take the time to inspect the fuel filter as it is getting late and I'm tired. Is it mandatory to replace the fuel pump o-ring now that the fuel pump has been taken out? If it's still in good shape, can I reuse it?

I really appreciate everyone's time who has posted in this thread... hence all the "Thanks". :thumbup:

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Your gas tank looks very clean. The debris you see inside is just crap that accumulates over time. As for the rusty drain hose, a small toothbrush style wire brush will clean it up. I'd then blow the debris and what you get off the drain hole with an air compressor. The tank INHO, is fine after that...

I have re-used the O ring for the fuel pump several times (3) without problem but this last tank change out I did put a new seal in, just for safetys sake, so its your call (I think you'd be fine with it, just keep a very close eye on it when initially re-filling with fuel). BTW, it does go in one way and is "V" shaped if it happened to fall off. The flat side of the "V" goes up against the PUMP itself.

As for the pump, again blow the little filter with some compressed air, if it looks varnished up at all, some brake cleaner or if really bad laquer thinner will help clean it/break it down. Again blow dry and make sure its spotless... **Some carb cleaners are really aggressive so I'd be very cautious using it around the plastic parts

The air filter, IMHO is obviously showing some wear but isn't real bad, again, I'd blow it from the FI body side out and re-install.

Once its all re-assembled, cycle the key several times to prime the system. Each time its turned on and off, the pump fills until pressurized. You may have to play/rev the bike some (as little as possible)when starting (Not really good on a cold engine) until the old fuel is out of the rest of the system. I'd also put a strong dose of Chevron Techtron in with about a gallon of fuel to help clean the injectors/fuel rail etc. Once its running decent, take it for a ride and top it off with fuel.

Make sure your vent lines, once re-attached are NOT KINKED, they cause other problems if they are...

Good job so far and good luck, your getting there...

The below pic's are from the tank I just removed, about 2 years old:

 

[04fizzer]

I really appreciate everyone's time who has posted in this thread... hence all the "Thanks". :thumbup:

As mentioned, your tank looks beautiful. That's definitely not the issue.

I'd replace your air filter while you've got access to it. It looks pretty dirty (air filters should be replaced when they look dirty, not on a mileage basis)

 

[tasop7]

I'd also put a strong dose of Chevron Techtron in with about a gallon of fuel to help clean the injectors/fuel rail etc.

As far as products go, I know you mentioned above that Chevron Techron cleans the best. I guess I wouldn't mind going out and getting a bottle of it, but like I mentioned, I have a brand new can of Seafoam and an opened bottle of Stabil (it says it expires in 2 years and I recently opened it). I've always thought Seafoam was used as just a cleaner (the can says it stabilizes too though). So if I use Seafoam to clean the fuel system, I can just store the bike with it like that as well? If I treated the new tank of gas with Techron to clean the system, I would need to use Stabil for instance to store it right... or does the Techron stabilize the fuel as well?

You didn't mention Stabil in your previous posts. Do you like or care for the product? I started using it several years back when I winterize my bikes since it was recommended by several people on this forum. My neighbor (a Harley guy) hates Stabil and says it really fouled up his bike when he used it (I'm sure there was more to the story than that though). Stabil seems to have worked fine for me the last 3 years. I normally store my bikes for 6 months or so and they always fire right up in the spring with no hesitation.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

As far as products go, I know you mentioned above that Chevron Techron cleans the best. I guess I wouldn't mind going out and getting a bottle of it, but like I mentioned, I have a brand new can of Seafoam and an opened bottle of Stabil (it says it expires in 2 years and I recently opened it). I've always thought Seafoam was used as just a cleaner (the can says it stabilizes too though). So if I use Seafoam to clean the fuel system, I can just store the bike with it like that as well? If I treated the new tank of gas with Techron to clean the system, I would need to use Stabil for instance to store it right... or does the Techron stabilize the fuel as well?

You didn't mention Stabil in your previous posts. Do you like or care for the product? I started using it several years back when I winterize my bikes since it was recommended by several people on this forum. My neighbor (a Harley guy) hates Stabil and says it really fouled up his bike when he used it (I'm sure there was more to the story than that though). Stabil seems to have worked fine for me the last 3 years. I normally store my bikes for 6 months or so and they always fire right up in the spring with no hesitation.

I just use Seafoam regularly in every gas machine I own as a preventive measure, and yes it does stabilize. Techtron is a good cleaner, not a stabilizer. Mixing the two won't hurt anything. Loading the fuel tank heavy with Seafoam won't hurt anything either..

As for Stabil, IMHO, and I repeat IMHO, I don't like the product. I once cleaned a mower carb and a month later I had to replace the bowl gasket, (it was just worn out). The aluminum bowl was already starting to varnish up.

At the local shop I frequent (I've known literally the owner and head mechainic over 15 years, and TRUST) had several products on display including Stabil and K100. There were, I believe, 5 products total. All were mixed 1 oz of gas, 1 oz of water and 1 oz of the various products.

ALL THE PRODUCTS, except for the K100 separated from the water. Stabil was one of the worst. You could literally see the water on the bottom, the Stabil layer in the middle and the fuel on top... The other products I've never used.

I have since bought the K100 (not cheap stuff) and used it in my boat (see post #22) with a built in 50 gallon tank (1997). Since running the K100 and Non-ethonol fuel, the moisture droplets I was getting out of the FI pump bowl are now gone, PERIOD. The engine is an 06 Yamaha F150 4 stroke, inline 4. The moisure is still there, its just in suspension now and gets burned with the fuel while underway. I've used the K100 in other engines as needed and it does indeed work, just expensive. You can buy it on line as well: http://www.k100fueltreatment.com/

As a side note re Seafoam. My friend got a 500 Kawasaki twin (about a 2003) with less than 800 miles on it. Hadn't run in several YEARS.... The inner gas tank was rusted badly and of course it wouldn't start as it was kept with a semi empty gas tank, under a tarp, in SW Florida, (lots of humidity). I knew and offered to pull the carbs to clean the bottom end, he didn't to mess with it. We ended up draining the carbs after disconnecting the fuel tank. We added STRAIGHT Seafoam thru the fuel lines into the carb float bowls. Several hours later, we drained it and it friggin started, first on one cylinder, then on two... I'd be da....ed!!! Very, very impressive in my book... I wouldn't have believed it unless I'd seen it. Ran great after that, just had to deal with the rusty gas tank...

 

[tasop7]

Ok, well I was finally able to free up more time to work on the bike and did it on a warmer day since I had to open the garage door to run the bike. As I've been watching the temps in my garage, it has not dropped below 40 degrees F all winter so that's nice (it has dropped to 5 degrees outside a couple days too). About the bike, I have good news and maybe some bad news...

So the good news - The bike is running perfectly. When I first tried starting it before I created this thread, I only cycled the key 2 times. For all I know, it may have just needed to be cycled 5-10 times as suggested for the fuel pump to grab more gas. I figured this was a good chance for more experience working on the bike, and I also didn't want to chance the fuel being bad. I didn't travel down the road of checking for spark or anything like that. I was just figuring it needed gas to just push through the system since it was sitting so long. I also figured that was the case since the gas and inside of the tank looked good.

I ended up just using Seafoam since I had a new can on hand. On top of that, since TownsendsFJR1300 mentioned the gas looked very clean, I didn't think I needed a higher grade product to clean out the fuel system. But I will keep Chevron Techron in mind for future use.

Anyway, I completely got rid of the old gas, replaced the air filter since it was accessible and I had a new one on hand, put everything back together, added a healthy dose of Seafoam, filled the tank with gas, cycled the key 10 times... and the bike fired right up needing a little throttle for about 10 seconds or so. When I let go of the throttle, it idled perfectly just as before. After it ran for about 10 min, I shut it down and began to change the oil.

The Bad (maybe)... I might have made a wrong move here, but I also added Seafoam to the oil/crankcase. I was just going by what the Seafoam can said, which is,

"When added to Crankcase (Oil)...
-Frees sticky lifters & rings
-Cleans dirty parts
-Removes moisture
-Increases RPM's vacuum and compression
-Cleans PCV valve systems"

So after reading that and it claiming that it's perfectly safe to add to oil, I figured it would be good to clean the rest of the engine as it's had the same oil in for almost 2 years (but the old oil did look very clean as the bike has only been ridden for about 1,500 miles in the last 2 years). But of course after I added the Seafoam and the new oil, I come across a line in the owner's manual that says - "In order to prevent clutch slippage (since the engine oil also lubricates the clutch), do not mix any chemical additives." I did run the bike for about 10 min after the oil change and it sounded the same as before (no weird engine knocks or anything). I've always used a Purolator filter with Shell Rotella T full synthetic 5w-40 oil. Since it just mentioned clutch slippage, I'm guessing that worst case scenario I'll have to change the oil again before I ride the bike this upcoming season. Although one concern I do have is if the oil has been thinned out too much and wouldn't provide adequate protection for the engine (I added the average dose recommendation of Seafoam which equaled about 4 oz).

So here are my next questions -
-Would you guys say it's safe to run the bike with the Seafoam added to the oil?

-Do you think I might have thinned out the particular oil I'm using too much?

-So I understand this a little better, say the oil is not too thin and is fine for the engine... is clutch slippage only something to worry about when you're actually riding the bike and changing gears? I'm guessing that's the case. So just running the bike and idling it won't cause a problem if clutch slipping is the only concern, right? Does clutch slippage cause damage to the bike, or is it just a concern about not shifting smoothly or properly?

 

[ChevyFazer]

I don't know for sure but if it's the same stuff you put in your gas and you put it in you oil it is probably going to act like a engine flush, pretty much like dumping a little diesel fuel in with your oil to clean the internals, and after about a 10 min run it should be drained immediately, IF it acts the same way. I've never here of anyone actually dumping it in with the oil, I've herd of it being sucked in through vacuum lines to clean the top end better, but never used straight up in the oil. I would NOT start it again, I would let it drain for a good 30min, put 3qts of cheep oil in it with a fresh filter run it until it gets good and hot, drain it and then put your regular oil back in with a new filter, that's IF it acts the same way that a engine flush does. That might be a little over bored but IMHO you can't be to cautious after running a engine flush. I could be completely wrong, and hopefully I am, maybe someone else can set me straight saying it can be used like Lucas, not a engine flush....

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I've never run it in the crankcase of a motorcycle but have in numerous small (mower, etc) engines. I have a spare mower (for cutting the vacant lot next door) that when I got it, smoked just a puff upon start up.. With the Seafoam in the oil, it eventually stopped smoking, period. I've left it in there with NO ill results..

As for your engine, I don't see it doing any damage to the clutch/engine. Yes, it will thin your oil slightly (4 oz of approx 10wt oil ((Seafoam))in 3 quarts of oil) but with your cold temps up there, a little thinner oil on a cold start up will be fine.

The BEST THING YOU CAN DO, ride the bike and get it good and hot, it'll help burn off any moisture in the crankcase, clean injectors, etc.

Your due for an oil change (just the time frame alone), I'd leave it in for your ride or until you actually change the oil, it shouldn't bother your clutch plates as your changing the oil anyway. The Seafoam won't stay attached to the clutch plates.

There are some additives on the market that on a molecular scale, that actually attach to the steel/aluminum inerds (usually very expensive BTW), Seafoam isn't one of them...


Congrates on getting it running BTW. Keep that gas tank full when sitting for any lenth of time or it'll rust..

Periodic running for a couple of minutes DOESN'T HELP, but hurt in the winter. It'll gather moisture, etc. Keep the battery charged up, both tires off the ground, washed and waxed, covered is, IMHO, your best bet..

 

[ChevyFazer]

I've never run it in the crankcase of a motorcycle but have in numerous small (mower, etc) engines. I had one spare mower (for cutting the vacant lot next door) that when I got it, smoked just a puff upon start up.. With the Seafoam in the oil, it eventually stopped smoking, period. I've left it in there with NO ill results..

As for your engine, I don't see it doing any damage to the clutch/engine. Yes, it will thin your oil slightly (4 oz of approx 10wt oil ((Seafoam))in 3 quarts of oil) but with your cold temps up there, a little thinner oil on a cold start up will be fine.

The BEST THING YOU CAN DO, ride the bike and get it good and hot, it'll help burn off any moisture in the crankcase, clean injectors, etc.

Your due for an oil change (just the time frame alone), I'd leave it in, it shouldn't bother your clutch plates as your changing the oil anyway. The Seafoam won't stay attached to the clutch plates.

There are some additives on the market that on a molecular scale, that actually attach to the steel/aluminum inerds (usually very expensive BTW), Seafoam isn't one of them...


Congrates on getting it running BTW. Keep that gas tank full when sitting for any lenth of time or it'll rust..

Periodic running for a couple of minutes DOESN'T HELP, but hurt in the winter. It'll gather moisture, etc. Keep the battery charged up, both tires off the ground is IMHO, your best bet..

Ya I just went on their website and it said everything you just did, so I was wrong thankfully. It did say to keep an eye on your oil, if it was clean before and you notice it get dirty fairly quick to go ahead and change it. Of all the years I've been using it I never knew it could be used like that...

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Ya I just went on their website and it said everything you just did, so I was wrong thankfully. It did say to keep an eye on your oil, if it was clean before and you notice it get dirty fairly quick to go ahead and change it. Of all the years I've been using it I never knew it could be used like that...

Yes, you don't use much, so it doesn't drastically change anything. I would think a full synthetic oil would cause the clutch to slip more than 4 oz of Seafoam and of course, it (full synthetic) doesn't.

The mower I mentioned earlier, sits outside, under a MC trailer that's covered, and the oil is pretty dirty as it sits. This time of the year in Florida, it doesn't get much use (dry season), and will pull start on the first try. I do keep that gas tank full when not in use...

Actually, for all my engines that aren't used often (chain saw, pressure washer, chipper/shredder, generators, etc) I add a small dose of Seafoam down the spark plug hole and crank it over with the plug out to get it all over the cylinder to protect against rust. I'll then crank it it to TDC (either by looking or feeling compression) and leave the engine stored like that to keep moisture from getting thru an open valve. Smokes a little bit upon start up but that's fine... Of course the carbs are drained prior to storage..

 

[tasop7]

Thanks Scott for the info. I might be misunderstanding you, but it sounds like you didn't catch the fact that I DID just change the oil (sorry if I wasn't more clear on that). Being the fact that it was so long since the last oil change (thinking about it now, it might have been quite a bit less time than I thought, but definitely a year), I knew it needed to be done. So right now the bike has brand new Rotella T Synthetic oil (with the Seafoam added) and a brand new Purolator filter.

Unfortunately there are a couple different reasons why I can't really ride the bike right now. There is quite a bit of ice on the roads so I don't feel comfortable, plus I'm doing some work to other parts of the bike (adding some mods, etc) and the bike has many parts off of it (several things needed for it to be street legal).

So what should my next step of action be? If I can't ride it, should I start it again and let it sit for a longer period of time while maybe bring up the RPMs a little here and there so the Seafoam can get into the bike more, or should I just leave it alone being that it ran for 10 minutes yesterday and wait until the riding season starts (I might not be able to ride it for another 4 months)?

And yes, here is Seafoam's site that talks about the 2 ways you can use it with oil - Sea Foam | Tech Info - Gas Engines

 

[Downs]

I wouldn't mess with it till you can get out and really ride it again. At least a 20 or 30 minute ride to get the engine heat soaked. That'll help burn out any moisture ect that may be in the crankcase.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Thanks Scott for the info. I might be misunderstanding you, but it sounds like you didn't catch the fact that I DID just change the oil (sorry if I wasn't more clear on that). Being the fact that it was so long since the last oil change (thinking about it now, it might have been quite a bit less time than I thought, but definitely a year), I knew it needed to be done. So right now the bike has brand new Rotella T Synthetic oil (with the Seafoam added) and a brand new Purolator filter.

Unfortunately there are a couple different reasons why I can't really ride the bike right now. There is quite a bit of ice on the roads so I don't feel comfortable, plus I'm doing some work to other parts of the bike (adding some mods, etc) and the bike has many parts off of it (several things needed for it to be street legal).

So what should my next step of action be? If I can't ride it, should I start it again and let it sit for a longer period of time while maybe bring up the RPMs a little here and there so the Seafoam can get into the bike more, or should I just leave it alone being that it ran for 10 minutes yesterday and wait until the riding season starts (I might not be able to ride it for another 4 months)?

And yes, here is Seafoam's site that talks about the 2 ways you can use it with oil - Sea Foam | Tech Info - Gas Engines

IMHO, if you just changed the oil and added 4 oz of Seafoam, it'll be fine..

As noted above, when/if weather permits, a good ride helps burn the moisture out from the crankcase. The point I was trying to make, for bikes that are put up for the weather (for months on end), its best not to start the bike for just 10 minutes, the battery doesn't charge fully and the engine just collects more moisture inside.

If its partially apart modding, that's fine, you already got the Seafoam thru the engine and its working..

Your good there, enjoy modding and playing!!

 

[08fz6]

not a fan of stabil here either...

I use Star Tron in everything I have, bikes, lawnmower, weed eater, jet ski etc. Have never had a problem with them starting mind you when I put my bike up in August it usually doesn't get started again until May...

 

[tasop7]

not a fan of stabil here either...

I use Star Tron in everything I have, bikes, lawnmower, weed eater, jet ski etc. Have never had a problem with them starting mind you when I put my bike up in August it usually doesn't get started again until May...

Only a 4 month riding season?

 

[birdman2389]

Sea foam helps clean deposits and other nastiness outta the crankcase, it IS fine to add to the oil and will not hurt anything. However, in a wet mesh clutch like the fz6 the seafoam could cause slippage in the clutch... IMHO our bikes probly wouldnt be strong enough to make this happen.
Also, the seafoam will evaporate out of the oil if you get the bike hot and take it for a decent ride. If you had a lot of sludge or deposits in the cc, the sea foam could have broke them loose and clogged the filter a little.

 

[bdladdy]

I have a 2007 Honda VTX 1800 type F that had been sitting idle for 2.5 years. It has 5000 miles and would not start either. First, the garage can run well over 100 degrees F in the summer and , of course, its a dry heat<g>.

I'm a computer guy with a fear of sockets so I was hoping for an easy answer.

1) I killed the battery (o% charge) Can anyone explain how batteries die chemically/electro-phsically?

2) There was no gas to siphon since it had evaporated.

3) With the new battery it would powerfully crank but refuse to start.

4) Put two gallons of gas, some injector cleaner, and gas additive.

5) I tried the suggestion above about flicking the kill switch and key several times and I heard a whizzing sound somewhere under the left side of the seat. Like I said technical guy here.

6) Started perfectly

Thanks guys for generously taking the time to post some suggestions.