Need Help 2007 FZ6 S2 Fazer Severe Loss of Power ( galloping ) 9k RPM upwards

Motogiro

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Any error codes? Many times an error code will bring you right to the problem.
 

Si1973

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Update...
Started this morning on the button with no throttle.
Ran for 2 minutes and died.
Cranked for another minute with WOT, nothing.
Left for a minute.
Started again on the button with no throttle.
Ran for 2 minutes and died as soon as I applied throttle.
Idles fine for the first minute and then revs just very slowly die out.
Super confused now.
Again, I read that someone else had the same problem and it was the way the little o ring had gone back together when putting the 2 halves of the pump back together.
Trouble is it's such a ball ache taking that all out again just to try the o ring around the upper tube instead of pushed into the bottom part.
Grrrrr
 

Si1973

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Any error codes? Many times an error code will bring you right to the problem.
Hi, thanks for jumping in.
No error codes.
Still starts on the button first time every time and then dies the second I touch the throttle or after 2 minutes of no throttle.
I suspect that little o ring in the pump.
But need to go to work now :(
 

Si1973

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So I think the pump is priming enough fuel into the rail for it to run for a bit. But that o ring is letting fuel past the outlet pipe of the pump and back into the tank because the two halves of the outlet pipe are in effect not sealed and one constant tube.
I'll have to take the pump out again and see if I can see why the o ring is not doing it's job
 

Si1973

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Update...
Took pump out again.
Turned around the little plastic pipe piece and put the o ring on top of it.
Back together and started on the button.
Throttle doesn't kill it now but it's running lumpy terrible.
Still idles for 2 minutes and dies.
Does anyone know the correct orientation of that little piece?
Seems really flimsy to me
 

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Si1973

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Now i can get it to run but only with holding the throttle slightly open at 2 to 3k rpm. It will sit there running, but lumpy. Second I close the throttle it slowly dies over 30 seconds
 

Gary in NJ

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The original loss of power, and the ability to only run for two minutes, are not connected. You have reassembled something incorrectly. Make sure that you haven't kinked the fuel line, and more importantly the tank vent. The next time it stops running after 2 minutes, immediately open the fuel cap and listen for a rush of air. If that happens you have a clogged or kinked vent. You can confirm this by running the bike with the fuel cap open (you'll need a second key, or you have to squeeze the tabs on the cap to remove the key).

Regarding the original problem, as I mentioned in my post above there is a methodical process from trouble shooting. Without codes we have to go old school - by testing. Once you get past the 2-minute run problem you will have confirmed that fuel delivery is good. The next item to check is spark.

A failed (or nearly failed) coil will test/act perfectly until it becomes hot. Once hot, the resistance increases and it is unable to recover/charge and provide enough current to produce a meaningful spark. This is especially true at high rpm when the dwell time decreases.

Each coil must be removed and inspected for any signs of cracking. A cracked coil is a failed coil. The next step is to check the resistance of the Primary and Secondary windings. The primary leads (where the spark plug wires go) should show a resistance between 1.53 to 2.07 ohms at room temperature. Heat the coils with a hair dryer and check the resistance hot - it should be at the upper end of the range. Perform a similar test on the Secondary (the spade connectors). The resistance should be between 12k to 18k ohms. Check these at room temperature and heated.

Let us know what you find BEFORE going off in your own direction. We want to be methodical.
 

Si1973

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The original loss of power, and the ability to only run for two minutes, are not connected. You have reassembled something incorrectly. Make sure that you haven't kinked the fuel line, and more importantly the tank vent. The next time it stops running after 2 minutes, immediately open the fuel cap and listen for a rush of air. If that happens you have a clogged or kinked vent. You can confirm this by running the bike with the fuel cap open (you'll need a second key, or you have to squeeze the tabs on the cap to remove the key).

Regarding the original problem, as I mentioned in my post above there is a methodical process from trouble shooting. Without codes we have to go old school - by testing. Once you get past the 2-minute run problem you will have confirmed that fuel delivery is good. The next item to check is spark.

A failed (or nearly failed) coil will test/act perfectly until it becomes hot. Once hot, the resistance increases and it is unable to recover/charge and provide enough current to produce a meaningful spark. This is especially true at high rpm when the dwell time decreases.

Each coil must be removed and inspected for any signs of cracking. A cracked coil is a failed coil. The next step is to check the resistance of the Primary and Secondary windings. The primary leads (where the spark plug wires go) should show a resistance between 1.53 to 2.07 ohms at room temperature. Heat the coils with a hair dryer and check the resistance hot - it should be at the upper end of the range. Perform a similar test on the Secondary (the spade connectors). The resistance should be between 12k to 18k ohms. Check these at room temperature and heated.

Let us know what you find BEFORE going off in your own direction. We want to be methodical.
Thanks very much!
But thats all far beyond me.
I'd like to know first whats happened with that pump, it doesn't make sense.
I've tried putting that little adaptor and o ring back in both ways and no change.
Didn't change anything else on the pump.
Thinking buy a 2nd hand pump so I can remove my re-assembly from the equation.
I just want to get it running so I can take it to a garage. Collection will cost silly.
Or just write it off as a failure and buy another.
But I really liked this bike.
Don't know what to do really.
I have no equipment or ability or time to check all those things.

Gutted!!!!
 

Si1973

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The original loss of power, and the ability to only run for two minutes, are not connected. You have reassembled something incorrectly. Make sure that you haven't kinked the fuel line, and more importantly the tank vent. The next time it stops running after 2 minutes, immediately open the fuel cap and listen for a rush of air. If that happens you have a clogged or kinked vent. You can confirm this by running the bike with the fuel cap open (you'll need a second key, or you have to squeeze the tabs on the cap to remove the key).

Regarding the original problem, as I mentioned in my post above there is a methodical process from trouble shooting. Without codes we have to go old school - by testing. Once you get past the 2-minute run problem you will have confirmed that fuel delivery is good. The next item to check is spark.

A failed (or nearly failed) coil will test/act perfectly until it becomes hot. Once hot, the resistance increases and it is unable to recover/charge and provide enough current to produce a meaningful spark. This is especially true at high rpm when the dwell time decreases.

Each coil must be removed and inspected for any signs of cracking. A cracked coil is a failed coil. The next step is to check the resistance of the Primary and Secondary windings. The primary leads (where the spark plug wires go) should show a resistance between 1.53 to 2.07 ohms at room temperature. Heat the coils with a hair dryer and check the resistance hot - it should be at the upper end of the range. Perform a similar test on the Secondary (the spade connectors). The resistance should be between 12k to 18k ohms. Check these at room temperature and heated.

Let us know what you find BEFORE going off in your own direction. We want to be methodical.
Blew through both the vent pipes from the tank this morning. All clear and fine.
No kink in fuel line.
Would you buy a 2nd hand pump?
Because I've lost confidence in my re-assembly of the pump
 

Si1973

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Further question please all,
Would a battery on it's way out cause all of this?
It's been on the charger all day and still only on light 2/5.
I know I've been cranking it a bit but even so.
 

Motogiro

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Further question please all,
Would a battery on it's way out cause all of this?
It's been on the charger all day and still only on light 2/5.
I know I've been cranking it a bit but even so.

I'm going to assume the 2/5 light is a light on your charger that represents battery voltage while charging.
Each system on your bike needs methodical testing to determine where the problem might be. You can measure battery voltage which should be 12.6 to 12.8 VDC. when measured with a digital volt meter. Depending on meter specification and percentage of error the voltages should be pretty close to what we are talking about. Charging voltage at the battery will be closer to 13.8-14.0 VDC. at above 2000 rpm.
There are cases where bikes were running bad because of failed charging systems including high unregulated and unrectified voltages because of failed regulator/rectifiers. If the bike's charging system is going into high ripple or high voltage I think you will see the check engine line come on but I would recommend checking your voltages because it's not a hard test and will eliminate the possibility.
 

Si1973

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Update...
Took the pump out again tonight.
Learned the flow actually comes out of the side of the outlet tube and the bottom half of the tube goes to a spring prv that vents to the tank.
So, fitted the o ring UNDER the pipe adaptor and installed that flange down on the o ring, thinking this would seal against laminar flow and direct it all central.
Bike runs the best it has since the first pump removal, so I'm thinking the re-assembly is now correct.
However it will only start with cranking the throttle close to open and so on.
Then I can hold it at 2.5 to 3k and it would run all night.
So, pump is delivering.
But come off the throttle and it slowly dies still after 30sec to 1 minute.
Then struggles to start again because I guess flooded.
Put the original air filter back in just case its too lean.
Wound the idle screw in but doesn't make any difference.
Funny smell exhaust so I topped up with clean fuel thinking it would dilute the load of cleaners I've been putting in.
Leave until morning on a battery charge and then try again.
Again, checked all visible hoses without airbox removal and all ok and no kinks, clear vent lines.
Will remove airbox tomorrow and check the vacuum hoses and coils for visual signs.
Really strange because pump clearly supplies.
All relevant fuses also ok.
Spoken to a garage today and he said don't put the iridium plugs in until you've solved the fuel issue.
The first run tonight i held it at 5k and the cat was glowing red fairly quickly!!
I wonder if because running hotter on my heavily dosed additive fuel before the dilute.
 

Gary in NJ

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Warning:

The funny smell could be a result of a lean mixture. Running the bike this way could result in an engine that is damaged beyond economic repair. I would run the engine again in the dark. If you observe that the exhaust header is glowing red, shut down the engine and do not restart it.
 

Si1973

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Thank you.
Honestly, what do you think try next?
Do you think there's mileage in buying a 2nd hand pump and trying it?
I have no idea where to go next.
No wiring has been dislodged, I've checked all visible connectors and grounds. I don't think the problem is electrical, spark or air related. I think it's fuel, and that can only be the pump or highly mixed cleaner in the fuel, because nothing else has changed ?
I hope to find damaged vacuum hoses or something obvious when I remove the airbox and battery tomorrow.
Not worth putting the new plugs in, right?
 

Si1973

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How highly mixed is this fuel cleaner?
Probably 3 times what they say.
Now, probably a 1/2
I hit it with Seafoam and some other decent recommended one.
When it was running normally I used to fill half the time with regular and the other half with super, adding octane booster and clean every 3rd thankful.
 
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