Immanent Impact - Practice?

[cv_rider]

As long as moves the Keanu Reeves could pull off are on the table: if I was about to crash into the hood of a car, I'd do a power wheelie to lift the front wheel over the hood. When the front wheel touched down on the hood, I do a stoppie to raise the rear onto the hood, releasing the front wheel to get both wheels on the hood. Then I'd do a burnout, and finally leave a trail of burning rubber off into the horizon. The burnout would leave some smouldering rubber on the hood of the car. It would be my mark, sort of like how Zorro always cut a Z in his victims.

 

[Raid The Revenge]

A good captain ALWAYS goes down with the ship!

But wouldn't it be funny if you jumped and miraculously there was no collision? You could watch your FZ6 "ghostride" into somebody else!!

Nah...jumping would need specific training.

I could see it in court now:

The judge says, "Describe your collision in full detail."
You're like, "Your honor! I was afraid of crashing! So I jumped off my FZ6."
"But there was no crash..."
"Yeah! Isn't that weird? So my FZ6 went on down the road and..."
"...slammed into an old lady..."
"Yeah. Pretty crappy luck for her huh?"
"Now let's see...reckless driving?"
"No, your honor. I think it was an act of "self defense.""
"You are aware the old lady is dead, right?"
"Yes, your honor! I mean...OH NO! Really? I honestly meant to GIVE the motorcycle to her as a present! But at a REALLY HIGH SPEED!!! You know...to surprise her! Yeah!"

There is a very long pause while the judge looks at you in distress...

"Well...can I have my FZ6 back?"

 

[rvbiker]

Sometime it’s not what you do but what others will do that determine the outcome. What do you think a cager will do when he/she sees you sliding down his side of the road and he is approaching at you at 40 mph? In my opinion he/she will fixate and freeze.

 

[Sawblade]

I always wanted to do an endo, then spin the back end of the bike around and slam my back tire into the thing I couldn't avoid hitting and then take off going against the flow of traffic with a big cloud of tire smoke. Failing that, I'll just brake as much as I can and kiss my ass good bye.

 

[ANLR21]

If you've got time to get your s**t together enough to jump, then you've probably got more than enough time for other, more productive evasive maneuvers. From experience, I can tell you that you have split seconds to react to a real situation, and most of that time will be spent figuring out if you're really in deep or not.

If I saw someone actually doing a swan dive like this, my first thoughts would be "organ donor". Second, I'd be scoring the dive for style, originality and execution.

 

[bluenova]

Well the only major impact I've had was from behind and I was thrown back onto the windscreen of the car that hit me and then forward over my bike and 2 cars in front, and left me with nothing more than whiplash. If I had been holding on tight or got a leg stuck or something I doubt I would be writing this post, so +100 on the jump off if you think you will not be able to get out of the way.

 

[KensFz6]

+1 for Jumping off

I jumped off a 4wheeler once when I was an instant away from crashing into a tree...

Instinct just took over and I flew into a smaller tree that was next to it and walked away unscathed (I was only wearing a helmet at the time).

Looking back on it now, I probably should have tried braking harder but I was taking a curve too fast and knew that I would still hit it anyway or just fall off in the process. Better to jump off on my own terms rather than be thrown off imo.

 

[ChromeX]

This is still good. There are those who think this is crazy and those who put it in the library for consideration.
Again it's all in the interest of being a better rider, each has there own way of dealing with certain situations. This thread seems to have served to make you think, not just this but maybe "other" situations.
If I had a choice I'd much rather take my chances flying through the air than have my head impact "the sudden stop".
We practice the skills necessary to maneuver our vehicles, we wear the protective clothing; Hopefully the mental and physical go right along with all this.
Yes, I have "stepped off my ride and let it fall over" --- at the stop light, bottom of a down hill off ramp".... Yes, I was off to one side of the lane --- Yes, I was flashing my brake light, but I also noticed the ramp was a little moist from the fog an that car coming was not slowing down enough for my liking. Sure enough...... There insurance paid for a new bike and I'm still around riding. Have I done it and nothing happened except scratch my ride...YES, :Flash:will I do it again... probably!
THANKS AGAIN ALL.

 

[Kamloops]

In 1980 or so I had a Honda cb750f and I did what you say. Had a car pull a turn in front of me I had no chance to stop so just as I hit the front 1/4 panel I jumped, I think I rolled once on the pavement but landed on my feet, only injury was I bit my lip.

Bike was a write off. Forks were pushed right it. Still started and I drove it home slowly like that.

 

[Wh0M3]

From people who I've talked to, before they had their crash, they knew they couldn't break in time, so they layed it down. As far as I could tell they got away with no major injury, otherwise they would have said something about broken bones. I think about crashing when I'm riding. Not that I want to crash, but I'm always watching the cars around. I've been told to watch the drivers heads, drivers wheel / hands on wheel, and the front tires to see when a car is going to change lanes or turn your way. I try to keep a safe distance from the car in front of me. I was taught the 4 second rule as a min. I do have a hard time keeping that, and sometimes get caught up traveling 2 seconds behind the car in front of me. In a car, 2 seconds seems like a lot of room.

I think if it were me I'd try emergency braking, maybe end up endo or laying down. I've flown over the handle bars of a mini bike when i was a kid, but it wasn't because I jumped, I tried to run over something and endo'd on it.

Here is a link to a youtube video of someone on a moped who got blind sided. When I was reading about jumping it made me think of this.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulqvjDshjOs"]YouTube - Never Trust a Green Light[/ame]

It's kinda funny to watch, but on the serious side kind of scary too.

-PD

 

[mstewar1]

rvRider mentioned "target fixation". That's what comes to my mind when I visualize a car somehow coming into my path -- I'm working to AVOID target fixation.

Someone else mentioned watching driver's heads, hand, and the car's front wheels. My eyes are in constant scan mode, watching all of these things and, most importantly, looking for openings or escape routes. This is the primary reason why I don't ride with music. I'm way too much of a space case to introduce a distraction like that. I need all of my feeble mental faculties intact so that I can stay aware... At least when I arrive at my destination I'm fully awake and aware.

For those who've never seen or read it, take a look at the Hurt report: "The Hurt Report"

In particular, points 26, 28, and 29.

No, I'm not saying this report is some sort of definitive source, but I think it's the best we have.

I race downhill mountain bikes. And have bailed off of my bike at high speeds in very steep, rocky, and tree-lined places. Have yet to sustain any major injuries, but it's never a super-fun or desirable thing to have to do. And I wouldn't equate this with somehow being able to pull off a similar move on the street. Jeez, just thinking about this now gives me the willies.

I had a car pull directly across my path one day as I was less than a block from where I park my bike. I ride with my first two fingers on the front brake at all times and am really glad I had that habit in place. I grabbed a full dose of brake. The forks dove and the wheel pulled hard to the left, perhaps because that's where my "out" was, but just as likely it pulled due to the tire starting to slide and the mass imposing itself. I did not apply any rear brake. I stopped inches from the front fender, close enough for me to just raise my right hand and slam it down on the hood of the car. He backed up, I rode off.

So go ride your bicycle and practice seeing the way out, the escape routes. Be safe, ride another day.

 

[Kilbane83]

I doubt many people could jump high enough from a sitting position to clear a car or any other vehicle in a non-emergency situation let alone in a panic situation where you have less than seconds to react. You'd still be carrying alot of forward momentum with nothing but a solid collision to stop you if you where airborn. Makes me think about a high side. I think I'll take my chances with riding the brakes in hard and hoping for the best.

 

[Wh0M3]

Keeping fingers on the break lever/ clutch....

Now I used to do that when I started riding but was told it's a bad habit to have and stopped. (Motorcycle Beginners Course)

I would like to know what the habits are of this, good / bad / indifferent.

I like to ride mountain bikes and have always kept a few fingers on the brakes because there are times that you need to brake like now..... I went for a ride and grabbed a handful of my left break (front) because I was use to the clutch. I've thought about switching my brakes so the rear is on my left, but not sure I want to do that.

-PD

 

[Fred]

From people who I've talked to, before they had their crash, they knew they couldn't break in time, so they layed it down.

I've never understood that statement. "Had to lay it down."

For one thing, how do you lay a bike down while at speed? This is a technique that I was not taught at MSF.

I mainly think it's a silly concept. If you lay it down, you lose all control over the situation. A motorcycle on two wheels can stop a lot faster than a motorcycle sliding on its side. And once you're on the ground, you've made it more likely that you will get run over.

Back to the subject at hand, jumping. My last wreck I hit the rear quarter panel of the car that pulled out in front of me. I went over the trunk and landed on my head in the street. My only injury was a twisted right ankle. The toe of my boot caught on the handlebars as I was getting launched.

So from a damage standpoint, going over the car is going to hurt less than going into the car. If I'd jumped I might have even avoided the sprained ankle.

In the right situation, it could help. But I think it would take some good reflexes to not jump too early or too late. Besides, I can't even jump that high.

 

[Wh0M3]

I've never understood that statement. \"Had to lay it down.\"

For one thing, how do you lay a bike down while at speed? This is a technique that I was not taught at MSF.

I mainly think it's a silly concept. If you lay it down, you lose all control over the situation. A motorcycle on two wheels can stop a lot faster than a motorcycle sliding on its side. And once you're on the ground, you've made it more likely that you will get run over.

Now that you mention it, I wasn't taught that where I went to my training course. I've only really seen it on movies where it seems like a real option.

Good Point,
-PD

 

[steveindenmark]

I broke both my arms and right leg in a bike accident where a car came out of a side road right in front of me.

I can tell you for certain that you do not have time to jump up, spin around or even kiss your butt goodbye.

You hit it and pray as you fly in slow motion through the air.

I consider myself to be hugely lucky.

Steve

 

[mstewar1]

Re: two fingers on the lever.

I think that I got that from the Reg Pridmore course. Though I'd ask you not to quote me on that...I may have just picked it up elsewhere.

I never took the MSF course but have great respect for the fact that they do what they do -- and produce, from what I've experienced, aware and conscientious riders. I would in no way want to contradict what you've been taught.

Sorry, for the off-topic jaunt: You mention mountain biking. I ride, race, and coach off-road riding. I teach riding with a finger on the lever. With the advent of discs on bikes having a finger on the lever just makes sense and it's saved my cash and prizes on more than one occasion.

I'd be curious to know why the MSF instructors told you not to put a finger on the brake? I've been doing it for so long that it's just my natural finger position. It feels foreign to me to NOT have my first two fingers on the brake.

 

[abraxas]

My riding thoughts go like this:

1. AVOID - constant scanning & evaluating
2. SLOW DOWN - if anything happens, cut the speed
3. ESCAPE - speeding up and going round is more effective (IMHO) than stopping, i do it daily to people who switch lanes ... before they're in their new lane, i've already passed them on the outside, it flows better than an emegency stop.
4. STOP - hopefully your speed is low enough for stopping quickly to be an option, practicing improves stopping distance dramatically.
5. INSTINCT - as much as it is split second reaction that determines the above, if i get into a situation, i can just do what i think best under the circumstance. I don't get "putting the bike down" .... when i hit i'll still be straight up if possible, and if i'm on my feet, the front stopping will slingshot me over the top.

Over is preferable to into. And getting away from the bike ASAP is also wise.

 

[VEGASRIDER]

I've never understood that statement. \\"Had to lay it down.\\"

For one thing, how do you lay a bike down while at speed? This is a technique that I was not taught at MSF.

I mainly think it's a silly concept. If you lay it down, you lose all control over the situation. A motorcycle on two wheels can stop a lot faster than a motorcycle sliding on its side. And once you're on the ground, you've made it more likely that you will get run over.

Here is a very likely scenario, you're cruising 50 mph and a semi truck pulling a 53ft trailer pulls out in front of you. Even with emergency braking, you know you won't be able to stop in time. What do you do?

I know what I'm going to do, I'll most likely lay the bike down and take my chances of getting run over rather than hitting the side of the trailor which would probably decapitate you if you're upright.

Yeah, I don't think that this technique would be covered in the MSF course, this technique is too advanced for beginners.

 

[mstewar1]

Abraxas nailed it. That's how I roll...

As for the "lay it down" thing. I don't get that either. If a semi is able to roll out in front of me, I wasn't paying attention and sorta deserve to smack into it... I'm not saying that I don't think that it's physically possible to lay a bike on its side, I just prefer to think that I won't ride in such a way as to get myself in a situation where it's the only way out.