Thugs and Hooligans give us all a bad rap

[pookamatic]

There's a huge difference between 1, 5, or even 20 riders in a group obeying traffic laws (more or less) and 50-100+ morons on bikes participating in domestic terrorism.

I would hope a clear delineation of people out for a fun ride vs. Mad Max Beyond ThunderApple couple be established.

 

[Cloggy]

Here's another update of the incident

its difficult to tell who started it but I don't think all riders were blameless :spank:

 

[Nelly]

There's a huge difference between 1, 5, or even 20 riders in a group obeying traffic laws (more or less) and 50-100+ morons on bikes participating in domestic terrorism.

I would hope a clear delineation of people out for a fun ride vs. Mad Max Beyond ThunderApple couple be established.

I am totally with you but I fear this is when the politicians will fail us. Look at some off the laws already in place in Europe. Towns with complete motorcycle no entry or motorcycle curfews. One bad apple spoils the barrel. No one [media] is commenting on the thousands of positive motorcycle events that run in harmony with society.
That video being played on national and now international news has set back motorcycling a good few years.

Nelly

 

[Karate.Snoopy]

Great!!! a chump at work asked me if I was in the "Biker Gang" that was involved in the 'Road Rage' episode with the RR

 

[Nelly]

Great!!! a chump at work asked me if I was in the "Biker Gang" that was involved in the 'Road Rage' episode with the RR

I rest my case, next you will be asked "Are you related to Marlon Brando"?
He started it all don't you know.

Nelly

 

[Karate.Snoopy]

I rest my case, next you will be asked "Are you related to Marlon Brando"?
He started it all don't you know.

Nelly

No kidding, I wanted to retort but I was just dumbfounded, stood there at the urinal with my junk in my hand :scared:

 

[Nelly]

No kidding, I wanted to retort but I was just dumbfounded, stood there at the urinal with my junk in my hand :scared:

So you were "Falsely imprisoned" at the urinal OMG.
Not to make light of a serious thread, and I seriously hope that the young bike rider with the broken back makes a good recovery.
Nelly

 

[VEGASRIDER]

I'm sure every lawyer, DA, and even judges will be watching this closely. In the event the driver is not charged, it kind of sends a message that anyone in a similar situation who is feared for their life or family, is given the green light to run people over.

Using the car as a weapon, self defense I can understand in a way similar to if a driver had a CWP and started shooting at the suspects who were smashing the window. Is it justified, probably yes. But the rider (s) he ran over or hit were not the intended targets, what happens to the shooter?

 

[Tailgate]

I wonder what motorycycle forum on which these so-called stunt riders coordinated their ride . Anybody know? Must be a pretty lively discussion wherever it is. This incident has probably really set back motorcycling back to the 50's/60's when the public largely viewed motorcycle group rides as outlaw groups. This sure puts a bad light on all of us riders now.

 

[Ssky0078]

I'm sure every lawyer, DA, and even judges will be watching this closely. In the event the driver is not charged, it kind of sends a message that anyone in a similar situation who is feared for their life or family, is given the green light to run people over.

Using the car as a weapon, self defense I can understand in a way similar to if a driver had a CWP and started shooting at the suspects who were smashing the window. Is it justified, probably yes. But the rider (s) he ran over or hit were not the intended targets, what happens to the shooter?

I don't think anything should happen in that situation. If you are a member of a riot, which the legal definition is 10 or more people acting aggressively, intimidating, bullying, threatening and/or vandalizing then you are a participant in a riot and that may put you in harms way. Automatically because a person feels in fear of their life, that gives them the legal justification to use deadly force. I believe the way the law works is the instigating individual is liable, the same as if a motorcycle causes two other cars to crash, the motorcycle is liable. The Cristopher Cruz character that caused the accident in the first place is already being arraigned on charges, so we know he is considered the instigator. Also if you watched the video closely the Range Rover is not swerving directly at the bikes, he is trying to maneuver around them as best as possible. He could have made that whole situation a lot worse for a lot of the bikers.

And honestly if a mob of motorcyclist starts banging on another families vehicle, I think the vehicle should have the green light to run the motorcyclist over. If you don't want to be a motorcyclist that is run over, then don't put yourself in the situation or ride with jack off's that will do something like that.

The interesting thing is going to be watching how many civil suits come out of this. You know this Jay Meezie's family is going to sue. The whole reason they want the driver to incur some type of criminal charge is that will help them in their civil suit. IF convicted of a criminal charge then Mr. Lien will basically have to negotiate how big of check he has to write. It's also why they are trying to portray Miese as an innocent bystander that was trying to help a fellow motorcyclist, while posting FB pics of him with his "Reckless 730" picture on it, and all the crap that he's a family man and goes to a church, blah blah blah.

The funniest thing so far has been the guy that smashed out the window and dragged the guy out of the car. He was the second bike to get knocked down around 5:00 into the video. He was interviewed anonymously and said he had felt his life was threatened when he was knocked off his bike. That's why he chased the SUV and smashed in the window (he said he walked away after that, but somehow the guy got a beat down and cut). In reality that guy is not operating within the constraints within the law because the person he is alleging that threatened his life was fleeing from him. Once an assailant begins to flee you can't do anything about it. It's like if a home invader breaks in to your house, threatens you, you shoot him, then the invader begins to flee, you can't shoot him in the back as he goes. The argument for justifiable deadly force or self defense is no longer valid.

These thug motorcyclist are giving everyone else a bad wrap because they are getting their 15 minutes of fame for some of the worst behavior by a group of people in a long time.

 

[Ssky0078]

I wonder what motorycycle forum on which these so-called stunt riders coordinated their ride . Anybody know? Must be a pretty lively discussion wherever it is. This incident has probably really set back motorcycling back to the 50's/60's when the public largely viewed motorcycle group rides as outlaw groups. This sure puts a bad light on all of us riders now.

It was a Facebook group Hollywood Stuntz

 

[Neal]

I don't usually like to get involved with stuff like this but your comment above is clearly incorrect.

Did he hit his brakes? No.
Did he slow down substantially? Yes!

Take a look at the attached screen capture in less than a 2-second time lapse:
*Note: It goes left-to-right, top-to-bottom.


Take a look at the relative distances in the short time period. The guy filming does not really change position with respect to the three bikers in front of him, the two bikers beside the RR, or to the RR itself. Same with the RR; the relative position with respect to every bike around him does not change (or changes minimally).

The only object that changes position is the white bike; he gets further away from the three bike in the lead and ultimately closer (too close) to the RR.

He definitely Slowed! I could argue that it may not have been intentional but, given his stare down of the car in the previous few seconds, i would not be surprised.

No, no, and no.

The rider in question remains in parallel with green bike to his right and the SUV slowly run into him. The motorcycle was not slowing down, the changing camera view fooled you.

The rider is not getting further and further away from the bikes in front. The rider with the camera which is advancing which is changing the camera angle view. The angle view is increasing which gives the appearance of a change in distance between the bike in front on him changing, but it is not. This know optical phenomena is called axial magnification.

Stare down the car? You always look over your shoulder when turning into a new lane even in a car, but especially on a motorcycle.

Furthermore, even if he did have some magical way of brake checking with actually braking (which he obviously didn't) his body shows no sign of any abrupt moment change at all. I suppose you are going to tell me this guy has some private inertial damper he got from the future like in star trek.

Lastly, what would be the motive for brake checking a car on a motorcycle? (even though it is obvious no such thing happened)
To get run over?

What is shocking to me is the great lengths people are going to believe the impossible, just because they don't like that motorcycle rider.

First one person was claiming to see a brake light on in front, when the light was clearly not on. Another was talking about a downshift the rider made, when it is clear the rider has left foot planted up on his peg the whole time and his left hand on his side not close to the clutch or his shiftier.


Anyways, congratulations to the rich guy in the rich guy in the SUV that can hit one guy, run away without exchanging insurance information of filing a police report because (he was scared motorcyclists) run over 2 more motorcycles and nearly kill a bystander who is going to be paralyzed for life and somehow come out looking like a victim. Have money you get to buy the best lawyer and run a PR campaign to make public believe whatever you want (really, are they showing clips of unrelated stunts off youtube from years back and public eats it up).

 

[Neal]

I don't think anything should happen in that situation. If you are a member of a riot, which the legal definition is 10 or more people acting aggressively, intimidating, bullying, threatening and/or vandalizing then you are a participant in a riot and that may put you in harms way. Automatically because a person feels in fear of their life, that gives them the legal justification to use deadly force. I believe the way the law works is the instigating individual is liable, the same as if a motorcycle causes two other cars to crash, the motorcycle is liable. The Cristopher Cruz character that caused the accident in the first place is already being arraigned on charges, so we know he is considered the instigator. Also if you watched the video closely the Range Rover is not swerving directly at the bikes, he is trying to maneuver around them as best as possible. He could have made that whole situation a lot worse for a lot of the bikers.

And honestly if a mob of motorcyclist starts banging on another families vehicle, I think the vehicle should have the green light to run the motorcyclist over. If you don't want to be a motorcyclist that is run over, then don't put yourself in the situation or ride with jack off's that will do something like that.

The interesting thing is going to be watching how many civil suits come out of this. You know this Jay Meezie's family is going to sue. The whole reason they want the driver to incur some type of criminal charge is that will help them in their civil suit. IF convicted of a criminal charge then Mr. Lien will basically have to negotiate how big of check he has to write. It's also why they are trying to portray Miese as an innocent bystander that was trying to help a fellow motorcyclist, while posting FB pics of him with his "Reckless 730" picture on it, and all the crap that he's a family man and goes to a church, blah blah blah.

The funniest thing so far has been the guy that smashed out the window and dragged the guy out of the car. He was the second bike to get knocked down around 5:00 into the video. He was interviewed anonymously and said he had felt his life was threatened when he was knocked off his bike. That's why he chased the SUV and smashed in the window (he said he walked away after that, but somehow the guy got a beat down and cut). In reality that guy is not operating within the constraints within the law because the person he is alleging that threatened his life was fleeing from him. Once an assailant begins to flee you can't do anything about it. It's like if a home invader breaks in to your house, threatens you, you shoot him, then the invader begins to flee, you can't shoot him in the back as he goes. The argument for justifiable deadly force or self defense is no longer valid.

These thug motorcyclist are giving everyone else a bad wrap because they are getting their 15 minutes of fame for some of the worst behavior by a group of people in a long time.

Good things all your ifs had nothing to do with what actually happened.

The driver hit a motorcycle in front of him. When he was approached by the rider for the exchange of insurance information instead of wait for the police he decided to flee the scene leaving the lone motorcyclist (who remained at the scene to wait for to police to file a report) running over two motorcycle riders leaving one paralyzed for life.

You may think what the riders was harsh but that if nothing compared to what the police would do to you in even a much lesser of a situation.

Grandma shot, killed by New Hampshire state troopers after car chase - U.S. News

She didn't even injure any of the cops.

 

[FZ09Bandit]

No, no, and no.

The rider in question remains in parallel with green bike to his right and the SUV slowly run into him. The motorcycle was not slowing down, the changing camera view fooled you.

The rider is not getting further and further away from the bikes in front. The rider with the camera which is advancing which is changing the camera angle view. The angle view is increasing which gives the appearance of a change in distance between the bike in front on him changing, but it is not. This know optical phenomena is called axial magnification.

Stare down the car? You always look over your shoulder when turning into a new lane even in a car, but especially on a motorcycle.

Furthermore, even if he did have some magical way of brake checking with actually braking (which he obviously didn't) his body shows no sign of any abrupt moment change at all. I suppose you are going to tell me this guy has some private inertial damper he got from the future like in star trek.

Lastly, what would be the motive for brake checking a car on a motorcycle? (even though it is obvious no such thing happened)
To get run over?

What is shocking to me is the great lengths people are going to believe the impossible, just because they don't like that motorcycle rider.

First one person was claiming to see a brake light on in front, when the light was clearly not on. Another was talking about a downshift the rider made, when it is clear the rider has left foot planted up on his peg the whole time and his left hand on his side not close to the clutch or his shiftier.


Anyways, congratulations to the rich guy in the rich guy in the SUV that can hit one guy, run away without exchanging insurance information of filing a police report because (he was scared motorcyclists) run over 2 more motorcycles and nearly kill a bystander who is going to be paralyzed for life and somehow come out looking like a victim. Have money you get to buy the best lawyer and run a PR campaign to make public believe whatever you want (really, are they showing clips of unrelated stunts off youtube from years back and public eats it up).

Do you have some chip on your shoulder or something against people that are better off than you? Your sitting there defending thugs (our outstanding citizens as you probably think they should be called) that ganged up on one man, without a signel call to the police?? They had time, one guy even got off his bike and strolled over to the SUV. He had time to call the cops, nope, the only one that "scared" was the guy in the rover.

This just in, 100s of range rovers terrorize one man on motorcycle because he accidently got in their way showing them signs of "disrespect" who's side are you on now?

 

[FZ09Bandit]

Good things all your ifs had nothing to do with what actually happened.

The driver hit a motorcycle in front of him. When he was approached by the rider for the exchange of insurance information instead of wait for the police he decided to flee the scene leaving the lone motorcyclist (who remained at the scene to wait for to police to file a report) running over two motorcycle riders leaving one paralyzed for life.

You may think what the riders was harsh but that if nothing compared to what the police would do to you in even a much lesser of a situation.

Grandma shot, killed by New Hampshire state troopers after car chase - U.S. News

She didn't even injure any of the cops.

Quit pushing some kind of self righteous agenda, cops where not even present during the attack on the RR. So start another thread because this had nothing to do with it.

Your acting like you were there. From what we can see they are clearly menacing the driver.

What really happened?? Did MR. Rich man get his up and commins or what? Because according to your logic, since the knuckle dragging stunterz who do dumb **** on the highway along time ago and the guy just going for a drive, all reputations are moot up to this point right? So he wasn't some filthy rich ass hole, and they weren't criminals.

 

[trepetti]

Quit pushing some kind of self righteous agenda, cops where not even present during the attack on the RR. So start another thread because this had nothing to do with it.

Your acting like you were there. From what we can see they are clearly menacing the driver.

What really happened?? Did MR. Rich man get his up and commins or what? Because according to your logic, since the knuckle dragging stunterz who do dumb **** on the highway along time ago and the guy just going for a drive, all reputations are moot up to this point right? So he wasn't some filthy rich ass hole, and they weren't criminals.

The challenge is to not get all wound up on this. Neal is entitled to his opinion. I do not believe that he has made a convincing argument, so I am sure he understands why his views are facing some resistance...

Dealing strictly with the video AND giving the bikers every benefit of the doubt, in my opinion they acted foolishly and provoked the most powerful instinct in the RR driver, SELF PRESERVATION! Imagine if a police officer catches a thief in a neighborhood and as he is walking him to the patrol car the entire townsfolk decide to run towards him, hands extended to thank him. People are going to get hurt.

No....I see nothing that would lead me to believe that the mob wanted the drivers insurance id card. They had his license plate number (which reminds me.....where are the license plates on the law-abiding bikes?) and could have called the police to have them do what they do.

 

[Ssky0078]

Stare down the car? You always look over your shoulder when turning into a new lane even in a car, but especially on a motorcycle.

I personally look and make a move, I don't continue looking for more than the time it takes to turn, look, then look forward and go. I also don't proceed to continue to look back over my other shoulder back at the vehicle that I have just merged in front of while slowing down.

Lastly, what would be the motive for brake checking a car on a motorcycle? (even though it is obvious no such thing happened)
To get run over?

Perhaps you've not seen enough video of these group rides. Watch any ROC videos lately? It's common practice for these asshats to block traffic with their motorcycle to open up space to do whatever dumb sh!t they want. Watch the other videos from the YT poster Michelinman900 from last year where you can see them blocking traffic and attacking a Prius. So obviously good sir you haven't done your research.

What is shocking to me is the great lengths people are going to believe the impossible, just because they don't like that motorcycle rider.

In psychology this is called projection. Despite the significant amount of evidence to the contrary of what you call 'impossible' the actions of the motorcycle rider is rather possible and also probable based on other video evidence presented, yet you insist on defending this guy saying it's because we 'don't like that motorcycle rider'. In reality I don't know that motorcycle rider, what I do know is what it looks like to ride like an *******, and that I don't like. Judge a person by their actions, not by any stereotype is how I do things.

First one person was claiming to see a brake light on in front, when the light was clearly not on. Another was talking about a downshift the rider made, when it is clear the rider has left foot planted up on his peg the whole time and his left hand on his side not close to the clutch or his shiftier.

Go review the video, 2 separate occasions his brake light comes on. Maybe slow it down, or put it on a thousand dollar monitor and sit 2 inches from it. At 0:22 and 0:24 (almost 0:25) any person can clearly see the brake lights come on. Also I don't know how your Fz works but I can slow significantly by letting off the throttle of my motorcycle. I don't even have a sprocket change that is common for stunters to change the speed of travel relative to the rpm of the engine making it easier to slow down.

Anyways, congratulations to the rich guy in the rich guy in the SUV that can hit one guy, run away without exchanging insurance information of filing a police report because (he was scared motorcyclists) run over 2 more motorcycles and nearly kill a bystander who is going to be paralyzed for life and somehow come out looking like a victim. Have money you get to buy the best lawyer and run a PR campaign to make public believe whatever you want (really, are they showing clips of unrelated stunts off youtube from years back and public eats it up).

What does "rich" have to do with anything in this matter? If a family was in a 1980 station wagon with Clark Griswald driving and ran over these idiot thugs, I would still feel the same way. The Range Rover was just probably more successful because of it's off road capability.
As for showing previous years activities of these thugs, it is called establishing a precedent for behavior. If you watch cop/lawyer shows, this is why the police check a persons rap sheet and see if they have any prior arrests or crimes related to what they are accused of. The Range Rover has no prior incident of needlessly running over motorcycles. However, the people of NYC and many of the riders there have already said these thugs are known for this type of behavior.
As for PR campaign the man Lien and his family have not spoke out, yet, with their side of the story. However, this clown/"victim" Jay Mezee's family has already started their campaign about what a great guy he is, and all that.

Honestly Neal I don't know if you're really that upset about this or just stirring it up. I've generally always appreciated your contribution to the forum and you have made a lot of valid points in the past. I however just don't get where you're coming from on this one.

Have you ever participated in a group ride like this? Have you ever attempted to control traffic with your motorcycle? Do you stunt on public streets?

 

[Neal]

Do you have some chip on your shoulder or something against people that are better off than you? Your sitting there defending thugs (our outstanding citizens as you probably think they should be called) that ganged up on one man, without a signel call to the police?? They had time, one guy even got off his bike and strolled over to the SUV. He had time to call the cops, nope, the only one that "scared" was the guy in the rover.

This just in, 100s of range rovers terrorize one man on motorcycle because he accidently got in their way showing them signs of "disrespect" who's side are you on now?

You have a very wild imagination. No one ganged up on anybody.

The one guy who got hit approached the driver of the vehicle while all the other motorcycles waiting doing absolutely nothing at all on the bikes just watching the scene.

Then the maniac just took off and road over 2 people nearly killing one. Then he got chased down.

 

[Neal]

I personally look and make a move, I don't continue looking for more than the time it takes to turn, look, then look forward and go. I also don't proceed to continue to look back over my other shoulder back at the vehicle that I have just merged in front of while slowing down.



Perhaps you've not seen enough video of these group rides. Watch any ROC videos lately? It's common practice for these asshats to block traffic with their motorcycle to open up space to do whatever dumb sh!t they want. Watch the other videos from the YT poster Michelinman900 from last year where you can see them blocking traffic and attacking a Prius. So obviously good sir you haven't done your research.



In psychology this is called projection. Despite the significant amount of evidence to the contrary of what you call 'impossible' the actions of the motorcycle rider is rather possible and also probable based on other video evidence presented, yet you insist on defending this guy saying it's because we 'don't like that motorcycle rider'. In reality I don't know that motorcycle rider, what I do know is what it looks like to ride like an *******, and that I don't like. Judge a person by their actions, not by any stereotype is how I do things.



Go review the video, 2 separate occasions his brake light comes on. Maybe slow it down, or put it on a thousand dollar monitor and sit 2 inches from it. At 0:22 and 0:24 (almost 0:25) any person can clearly see the brake lights come on. Also I don't know how your Fz works but I can slow significantly by letting off the throttle of my motorcycle. I don't even have a sprocket change that is common for stunters to change the speed of travel relative to the rpm of the engine making it easier to slow down.




What does "rich" have to do with anything in this matter? If a family was in a 1980 station wagon with Clark Griswald driving and ran over these idiot thugs, I would still feel the same way. The Range Rover was just probably more successful because of it's off road capability.
As for showing previous years activities of these thugs, it is called establishing a precedent for behavior. If you watch cop/lawyer shows, this is why the police check a persons rap sheet and see if they have any prior arrests or crimes related to what they are accused of. The Range Rover has no prior incident of needlessly running over motorcycles. However, the people of NYC and many of the riders there have already said these thugs are known for this type of behavior.
As for PR campaign the man Lien and his family have not spoke out, yet, with their side of the story. However, this clown/"victim" Jay Mezee's family has already started their campaign about what a great guy he is, and all that.

Honestly Neal I don't know if you're really that upset about this or just stirring it up. I've generally always appreciated your contribution to the forum and you have made a lot of valid points in the past. I however just don't get where you're coming from on this one.

Have you ever participated in a group ride like this? Have you ever attempted to control traffic with your motorcycle? Do you stunt on public streets?

Everything you said has nothing to do with what actually happened.

Stop searching random videos on the internet and somehow try to apply it to a scene it has nothing to do with.

No one in the video did any stunts at all, absolutely nothing. They were all just riding normally who did nothing out of the ordinary until the guy in the SUV went grand theft auto.

Rich guy means, he buys the best lawyer in state which he did and pays for the mass PR campaign of spamming the news outlet with propaganda that apparently people are just eating up instead of looking at the facts of what actually happened on that day.

 

[Neal]

Quit pushing some kind of self righteous agenda, cops where not even present during the attack on the RR. So start another thread because this had nothing to do with it.

Your acting like you were there. From what we can see they are clearly menacing the driver.

What really happened?? Did MR. Rich man get his up and commins or what? Because according to your logic, since the knuckle dragging stunterz who do dumb **** on the highway along time ago and the guy just going for a drive, all reputations are moot up to this point right? So he wasn't some filthy rich ass hole, and they weren't criminals.

Huh? Where were the stunts in the video? How is approaching a car after it hits you menacing? What are you watching?