My Power Commander V, I HATE it!!

[YamahaMAXdRPMs]

That sucks... but i do feel a little better knowing it wasnt just my bike that was having issues... funny they issued you a return right away, i spent HOURS 4+ trying to convince them something was wrong....

Got the dyno tune, it all seems to be working out now tho :thumbup:

 

[tuningfork]

did you try it with a 0 map and the O2 plugged in?

 

[Shiloh]

That sucks... but i do feel a little better knowing it wasnt just my bike that was having issues... funny they issued you a return right away, i spent HOURS 4+ trying to convince them something was wrong....

Got the dyno tune, it all seems to be working out now tho :thumbup:

I just told him what I had done, the various maps including the zero map, etc. His immediate response was "We need to check the unit out" Total phone time (exclusive of wait time), 3 or 4 minutes. From what little I could draw out of him as to a causation, his focus was on the "Batch Fire Injectors" which are unusual.

I know you went through it big time trying to get things straightened out, and I was disgusted when I determined I had what I think is the same problem.

Time will tell, and when it gets return, I will post to this thread an update.

 

[krid80]

very interesting. my 2006 has had no issues with the PCV

 

[Shiloh]

Received an email from Dynojet today, from another support person, XXX by name, who said just add fuel in the zero TPS column, but acknowledged it was YYY's call to check the unit. By the tone of his response, he seems familiar with the situation and this isn't his first case.

Seems very odd that he would not consider it a problem that connecting the PVC into the system with a zero map was inducing unacceptable functional response a PCV issue, but a map issue.

It would be my thought that a zero map and a PCV should allow the bike to perform as before installation without a detectable difference. Non Dynojet fuel controllers that I have used in the past are able to accomplish this simplest of task, ie: do nothing, without issue, so expecting the same from Dynojet is not expecting too much.

I think they will resolve this, but I am disappointed in the email.

 

[chunkygoat]

I'm not sure what you're running, but maybe try running stock....disconnect the PCV and if you stall out, you know its a problem with your bike. If not, you know its either got to do with the PCV, the connections, or the reaction your bike is having to the PCV.

Maybe your mapping is off. Maybe you're dumping TOO much fuel into it and flooding it. You would hear massive bike fires though so you would know.

I would suggest riding for a day without the PCV to see if your bike still stalls - and go from there.

 

[Shiloh]

I'm not sure what you're running, but maybe try running stock....disconnect the PCV and if you stall out, you know its a problem with your bike. If not, you know its either got to do with the PCV, the connections, or the reaction your bike is having to the PCV.

Maybe your mapping is off. Maybe you're dumping TOO much fuel into it and flooding it. You would hear massive bike fires though so you would know.

I would suggest riding for a day without the PCV to see if your bike still stalls - and go from there.

I have disconnected the PCV and the bike runs fine just exactly like it did prior to the PCV. Just exactly like it should with the zero map, but doesn't.

Anyway, it's in transit to North Las Vegas as we speak (so to speak).

 

[tuningfork]

Received an email from Dynojet today, from another support person, XXX by name, who said just add fuel in the zero TPS column, but acknowledged it was YYY's call to check the unit. By the tone of his response, he seems familiar with the situation and this isn't his first case.

Seems very odd that he would not consider it a problem that connecting the PCV into the system with a zero map was inducing unacceptable functional response a PCV issue, but a map issue.

It would be my thought that a zero map and a PCV should allow the bike to perform as before installation without a detectable difference. Non Dynojet fuel controllers that I have used in the past are able to accomplish this simplest of task, ie: do nothing, without issue, so expecting the same from Dynojet is not expecting too much.

I think they will resolve this, but I am disappointed in the email.

I think the difference here is krid80 does not have an O2 sensor on his 2006. So the stock ECU on his bike is used to controlling fuel at idle and low load without one. On you 2 guys who added the PCv on O2-equipped bikes, if you unplugged the O2 per instructions, maybe the stock ECU is pulling fuel as a result (floating all the way to max (-) trim). So its running lean and rough. So if you add back in some fuel it smooths out. Remember the PCIII DID NOT SAY TO UNPLUG THE O2. The main reason IMO they say to unplug it with the PC-V is they want you to use the auto-tune to dial it in and that wont work if the stock ECU trims are fighting it.

I would be curious to see if you plugged in your PC-V **and** kept the O2 plugged in, if it would run ok with a 0-map.

Looking at the maps it just seems odd that the stock fuel map would be off by 20+ % in places...so they must be over-compensating for some "behavior" of the stock ECU.

 

[Shiloh]

I think the difference here is krid80 does not have an O2 sensor on his 2006. So the stock ECU on his bike is used to controlling fuel at idle and low load without one. On you 2 guys who added the PCv on O2-equipped bikes, if you unplugged the O2 per instructions, maybe the stock ECU is pulling fuel as a result (floating all the way to max (-) trim). So its running lean and rough. So if you add back in some fuel it smooths out. Remember the PCIII DID NOT SAY TO UNPLUG THE O2. The main reason IMO they say to unplug it with the PC-V is they want you to use the auto-tune to dial it in and that wont work if the stock ECU trims are fighting it.

I would be curious to see if you plugged in your PC-V **and** kept the O2 plugged in, if it would run ok with a 0-map.

Looking at the maps it just seems odd that the stock fuel map would be off by 20+ % in places...so they must be over-compensating for some "behavior" of the stock ECU.

Actually I did additional "testing" to try and isolate what is going on prior to returning the unit to Dynojet.

4 difference setups, all with the zero map in the PC-V, engine warm with 180 water temp, where I would slowly raise the rpm to 3000, hold 3K for a few seconds and then release the throttle and see the lowest RPM the engine dropped to.

Test 1 O2 connected, no PC-V, Idle RPM 1300, Lowest RPM ~ 1300,
Test 2 O2 disconnected, no PC-V, Idle RPM 1300, Lowest RPM ~ 1300,
Test 3 O2 disconnected ,PC-V / Zero map, Idle RPM 1300, Lowest RPM 0,
Test 4 O2 connected, PC-V / Zero map, Idle RPM 1300, Lowest RPM 0

The "Lowest RPM" is the lowest RPM observed when the throttle is released from 3000 RPM.

I then disconnected the PC-V, packed it and shipped it, returning the bike to O2 connected status.

Krid80 had an anomaly on his installation on the 06 also, idle speed dropped nearly to 50 % of what it was prior to installation. I think he said he just readjusted the idle speed by the screw adjuster. But no apparent reason for the idle change.

Thanks for the inputs, I really don't have any more ideas other than one I can't explore since the unit is in FEDEX care at the moment. What I was wondering about, was just connecting the PC-V to the injectors, and not the TPS, (only connect the 4 wire connector, and not the 6 wire connector) and see if the problem went away. That might help DJ isolate what is going on.

Oh well, time will tell.

Again, thanks

Andy

 

[tuningfork]

Hmm, good info.! Now I am stumped....aside from some issue where their circuit/firmware does not do well with small duty cycles (ie. width or shift issue.) I don't think these issues were present in the PCIII.

Have you looked to see if the accel enrichment tables are changed inthe map you are trying (or in the 0-map)? Maybe have a look once you get the unit back.

Would be nice to get a 2-channel o-scope on the pre and post PC-V injector driver signal and see what is going on.....

I also wonder if some of the unused inputs like the map select port or the temp need pulled down/up or something (ie floating input).

 

[Shiloh]

Hmm, good info.! Now I am stumped....aside from some issue where their circuit/firmware does not do well with small duty cycles (ie. width or shift issue.) I don't think these issues were present in the PCIII.

Have you looked to see if the accel enrichment tables are changed inthe map you are trying (or in the 0-map)? Maybe have a look once you get the unit back.

Would be nice to get a 2-channel o-scope on the pre and post PC-V injector driver signal and see what is going on.....

I also wonder if some of the unused inputs like the map select port or the temp need pulled down/up or something (ie floating input).

I checked all the options for any fuel inputs, but every was zero.


Nice it would be to get a 2 ch scope on this. It would be a "Eureka, that's the problem" type moment.

I'll post anything I hear.

Andy

 

[Shiloh]

Dynojet's package arrived yesterday, and they replaced the PCV unit, under warranty. I haven't installed the new box yet, and it will be this weekend at best, before I can get to it.

But, they replaced the unit, so is it safe to assume that they found a problem with the prior unit, or is it just me dreaming?

When I get it installed, will update results.

Andy

Well, I couldn't wait, I had to know. So 5 hours later we have results.

It is fixed.

First the prior test and results:

4 difference setups, all with the zero map in the PC-V, engine warm with 180 water temp, where I would slowly raise the rpm to 3000, hold 3K for a few seconds and then release the throttle and see the lowest RPM the engine dropped to.

Test 1 O2 connected, no PC-V, Idle RPM 1300, Lowest RPM ~ 1300,
Test 2 O2 disconnected, no PC-V, Idle RPM 1300, Lowest RPM ~ 1300,
Test 3 O2 disconnected ,PC-V / Zero map, Idle RPM 1300, Lowest RPM 0,
Test 4 O2 connected, PC-V / Zero map, Idle RPM 1300, Lowest RPM 0

The "Lowest RPM" is the lowest RPM observed when the throttle is released from 3000 RPM.


The new test results using the same procedure::

Test 1 O2 connected, no PC-V, Idle RPM 1300, Lowest RPM ~ 1300,
Test 2 O2 disconnected, no PC-V, Idle RPM 1300, Lowest RPM ~ 1300,
Test 3 O2 disconnected ,PC-V / Zero map, Idle RPM 1300, RPM ~ 1300,
Test 4 O2 connected, PC-V / Zero map, Idle RPM 1300, RPM ~ 1300

Loaded a few other maps, and they all worked without any stall indications.

All maps had all zero in the zero throttle percentage, and 6 to 15 percent in other low throttle positions, except for a map that was loaded on the unit that seem slightly different than any on the Power Commander site as it has +2 percent in the zero column at 1000 through 1500 RPM.

Also, the firmware load on the unit is version 0.1.2, not the current version 0.1.4, and I'm going to leave it that way.

Will be running the map they loaded for a bit and see if anything surfaces wrong.

 

[Naykid]

So it was the VERSION of the software that was wrong. Interesting.

Shiloh...thanks for the presistance. :thumbup:

 

[Shiloh]

So it was the VERSION of the software that was wrong. Interesting.

Shiloh...thanks for the presistance. :thumbup:

I'm not sure if it's the firmware or not, since they stated:
"UNIT EXCHANGED UNDER WARRANTY"

but they loaded a map and didn't up date the firmware so I think that it may be an issue or at least is something they are not sure of.

Your analysis of software is probably correct. In fact, when I tried to get a little insight from Dynojet, the gentleman said that something about the "Batch injectors on FZ6's require some special software considerations". He wouldn't say much more, but did very quickly issue a Return Authorization.

Having worked in Control Program software for thirty years, a bad software (or firmware which is software) upgrade would not be at all surprising.

It works wonderful now. Very pleased with the way they responded, and corrected the issue. Very pleased.

 

[ZincChloride]

You said you hate it right now? I've had my PCV w/ Auto Tunner since about april 2009 and have taken it to the nearest dynojet motorcycle dyno shop which is over 180 miles away. I've taken my bike there 3 times and the PCV never worked right. It never did anything to horse power or made the ride and smoother. What it DID do was create an unstable idle that if left alone, IT ACTUALLY DID THIS, it would on it's own rev its self up to about 1400 rpm. I stopped it once it got that fast. the back fireing was rediculous and I never could get it tuned by anyone. And no the autotunner never worked. I can't get a refund because power commander doesn't give refunds and won't honor any warrenties. They actually don't help even if you ask them to. They do lie and tell you to go see one of their qualified stores that have ther dynos. I've wasted over $1000 on this piece of crap and even with a custom map from the dyno shop the bike still ran like crap. So I finally got tired of it and unpluged it and pluged the bike back to it's original computer and wireing and everything imediately worked great. Power commanders are crap and their company are just thieves. I would recommend you get your money back if you can and DON'T put any more money into it because it's just a waste of time and money. If I could I'd put them out of business and throw the company owners in jail. I'm forever going to tell everyone I talk to about motorcycles to never get anything that has to do with power commander.

:Flip: GO TO HELL POWER COMMANDER.

SPREAD THE WORD!!!

 

[Shiloh]

You said you hate it right now? I've had my PCV w/ Auto Tunner since about april 2009 and have taken it to the nearest dynojet motorcycle dyno shop which is over 180 miles away. I've taken my bike there 3 times and the PCV never worked right. It never did anything to horse power or made the ride and smoother. What it DID do was create an unstable idle that if left alone, IT ACTUALLY DID THIS, it would on it's own rev its self up to about 1400 rpm. I stopped it once it got that fast. the back fireing was rediculous and I never could get it tuned by anyone. And no the autotunner never worked. I can't get a refund because power commander doesn't give refunds and won't honor any warrenties. They actually don't help even if you ask them to. They do lie and tell you to go see one of their qualified stores that have ther dynos. I've wasted over $1000 on this piece of crap and even with a custom map from the dyno shop the bike still ran like crap. So I finally got tired of it and unpluged it and pluged the bike back to it's original computer and wireing and everything imediately worked great. Power commanders are crap and their company are just thieves. I would recommend you get your money back if you can and DON'T put any more money into it because it's just a waste of time and money. If I could I'd put them out of business and throw the company owners in jail. I'm forever going to tell everyone I talk to about motorcycles to never get anything that has to do with power commander.

:Flip: GO TO HELL POWER COMMANDER.

SPREAD THE WORD!!!

Please review my post's on this subject / and identical problem in this thread. The FZ6 requires special firmware due to the use of batch injection. Test with a zero map autotune disconnected and document the problem, then contact PC and get an exchange for correctly programed unit. (The FZ6 is one of a very small number of production bikes to use batch injection, if not the only one.)

After I did, everything worked. And the throttle response was greatly improved.

Andy

 

[pspisak]

Wow, I just read through this entire thread. I have a 09 and my PCV is coming in on 12/7. I'm getting it becasue I installed some Leo Vince cans earlier this year (~April 2011) and I lost lorque. Everyone everywhere said to get a PCV to even this out.

I found the CO modification post and how to adjust CO1 & CO2 but the only way to get back the low end torque, believe it or not, was to lower these numbers to -9 or -10 however my high end response was now terrible, which is understandable.

Now I'm going to be very, very, very, cautious installing the PCV now that I read the thread and call them before I install it.

Thanks for all the information and hard work everyone, hopefully it will save me/us all a lot of future headaches!

 

[LVNeptune]

very interesting. my 2006 has had no issues with the PCV

Did they start supporting the 06 model in the last 2 weeks because last I checked 06 was NOT supported at all.

EDIT: When I go to Yamaha FZ6 2006 it immediately forwards me to PCIII doesn't even let me choose PCV...

 

[Kazza]

PCV is meant for 09+ models ONLY


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Wolfman]

PCV is meant for 09+ models ONLY


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Why only 09+????

Isnt the 09+ FZ6 exactly the same as the 07, and 08 models spec wise???