Advice for new riders

[master111400]

I am 25 years old. My wife is 24. We both attended the MSF Motorcycle Beginners Curse on Ft. Campbell Nov. 22-23 2010. We both recognize that we are very young riders and have way to much to learn. I am seeking information from experienced riders to help us out. We purchased a new 2010 FZ6R. I love the bike and cannot wait to ride it. I am currently deployed to Afghanistan. I am just trying to do my best to get as much advice as possible before I return in a few months to ride. Any advice besides "ride like everyone out there on the road is going to kill you" is greatly appreciated. I have seen the "everyone is going to kill me" 1000 times on this forum already. I am not saying that is not good advice, I am saying I know that and will ride accordingly. Thanks in advance for all of the advice.

 

[adinges87]

I've only ridden for a few months now, so this is not "experienced advice" but I just wanted to mentioned that I also took the MSF training at Picatinny Arsenal and to be honest, if you just remember those little things they taught you, you'll be OK. For me, safety wise, I ride knowing that for the most part, nobody sees me. Which is kind of true. Highway riding, although usually illegal, I try to ride a little faster than the majority of other motorists. this puts me more on the offensive instead of defensive. Try to put yourself in the driver seats of cars around you. Not only do they usually not see you, they're not looking for you either. Just be careful and you'll be fine. Also, don't ride like an idiot. I'm 24 also and I catch myself riding like an idiot all too often. It's fun, but not smart in the least. Just keep your eyes open and have fun! you're gonna love it.

 

[master111400]

Thanks for that advice. I was figuring that most "cagers" dont pay attention to motorcyclists. The instructors empasized this at our course. There was three instructors with over 140 years riding expierance between the three of them. I learned a tremendous amount at the course. I was actually the number one student passing the written exam with a 100 and having 0 deductions on the riding exam. I didnt cross any of the lines and counter leaned well. I am more curious about riding faster. I do not want to get out on the road and slow down to 20 or 30 in a 50 mph zone to make a turn. I know that I can ride slow (10-20 mph) with ease. How much harder will it be taking a turn at 50 mph?

 

[Erci]

You will definitely have loads to learn.

#1. DO NOT make turning at 50mph your priority
Gauging entry speed and cleanly executing what you intend to do takes lots of practice and even the most experienced riders will occasionally make mistakes.

You said you've seen "everyone is going to kill me" 1000 times on this forum, but think about what that means in terms of keeping out of trouble. What is the proper action for any number of situations with vehicle(s) around you, assuming they don't see you?
MSF is the best first step to minimize your risks out there.. now minimize it further by reading [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Proficient-Motorcycling-Ultimate-Guide-Riding/dp/1889540536]Amazon.com: Proficient Motorcycling: The Ultimate Guide to Riding Well (0731360405364): David L. Hough: Books[/ame]

 

[lonesoldier84]

I always assume the worst is going to happen in any given scenario. That doesn’t mean ride white-knuckled and tense, it just means develop good defensive reflexes for every scenario so you do them without thinking. You just be reacting without thinking before something has even happened. Examples:

-rolling on throttle to get clear of “merging areas”

-braking to avoid getting caught in “merging areas”

-lane position to outside when someone has just merged in and you are in their blind spot….plus brake/throttle to get out of blind spot

-left lane when the option is available (which it usually is) when on urban roads….keeps you clear of people turning out of parking lots/turning right/etc, and makes you more visible to left hand turners

-sweeping to the inside of your lane when approaching intersections so people turning left up ahead see you

-take as late an entry as you can into a corner so you can see debris, gravel, etc better

-never ride in blind spots, but don’t just ram on the throttle or else you get too close to guy in front of you and you create a situation where quick reflexes are necessary….unnecessarily, lol

-be mindful of braking, not only do people not pay attention to you, but you brake quicker than them. I will usually try to find a way to throttle out of a bad situation by swerving/throttle. Mind you I am a bit more aggressive than I need to be most of the time, but it works for me. Aggressive is better than complacent in my mind.

-be mindful of engine braking….your brake light does not light up

-when a truck tire tread comes off on the highway, it has killed riders by hitting them directly. The force is insane. Even if it hits your bike you’re having an off. I am quite paranoid of this when on the highway so never, ever ride within a certain distance behind a truck. If I am, I try to pass ASAP.

-be mindful of crap on the road. A car or truck can drive over it by positioning it in between their tires, while you may hit it if you are riding in the middle of a lane……always pick a tire to follow, not a car. If the car swerves a bit you can usually expect something to be on the road like a pothole or debris of some sort. Obviously keep a 2 second following distance as well

Anyway, these are all just examples to get you thinking the right way. Just get some miles under your belt safely and carefully and in time all this and more will just be second nature to the point you can enjoy the scenery and the ride while doing everything you need to be.


P.S.

:needpics:
(of your wife).......

:BLAA:

 

[master111400]

Thanks for that book Erci. I will have to order that and read it prior to going back home. @ lonesoldier84 thanks very much for all the advice. I will have to do my best to keep all of that in mind. Most of the simple things are what is taught in the MSF course. This is putting everything into more of a perspective for me. Riding is going to be much more of a challange of other drivers than myself from what it seems. I will have to ensure that I am paying attention to my 2 s,4 s and 12 s areas.

PS
This thread can continue to be worthless because I will not post a picture of my wife up there for all of you to drool over!

 

[tcmalker]

This is my personal opinion, so take it for what it is. Don't sweat it! It's just like riding a bicycle, once you learn how to ride that's it. There's nothing else you can do (unless you want to go to the race track) to make you a better riding in the streets.

First time riding in the street by yourself is kinda scary, but once you do it you'll see how easy it is. I guarantee your fear will be gone in less than a week. First time riding at night is no different. You will feel comfortable in a few days. Your fears will disappear.

That being said, I'm fairly new to motorcycling myself. Started in August this year. Already had two accidents. But I'm still laughing about it. What an experience!

How's Afghanistan? I was there 2008-2009. Had a great time. Spent my time between FOB Sharana, Ghazni, Kandahar & BAF. BAF sucks with all the saluting. Kandahar was a blast with all those NATO forces there. I played poker with them once a week. Can't wait to go back.

 

[master111400]

This is my personal opinion, so take it for what it is. Don't sweat it! It's just like riding a bicycle, once you learn how to ride that's it. There's nothing else you can do (unless you want to go to the race track) to make you a better riding in the streets.

First time riding in the street by yourself is kinda scary, but once you do it you'll see how easy it is. I guarantee your fear will be gone in less than a week. First time riding at night is no different. You will feel comfortable in a few days. Your fears will disappear.

That being said, I'm fairly new to motorcycling myself. Started in August this year. Already had two accidents. But I'm still laughing about it. What an experience!

How's Afghanistan? I was there 2008-2009. Had a great time. Spent my time between FOB Sharana, Ghazni, Kandahar & BAF. BAF sucks with all the saluting. Kandahar was a blast with all those NATO forces there. I played poker with them once a week. Can't wait to go back.

Well the actual base here and the NATO forces isnt bad at all. My unit is horrible and I am having a rough time this deployment due to that. This is my third and by far my WORST deployment to date. I have not been able to enjoy it in the least bit. I guess I will just have to be patient for my return to home to come. When that happens I will be able to ride! I am very excited and cannot wait to go out on trips. I have a few coworkers that have been riding for some time. I do not know the exact amount of years of experiance they have but they have been very willing to ride with me to teach me. The one guy is older and rides crusiers. He was very excited when I told him that I got a bike as him and I are fairly close friends. I am glad to hear that you had a good time on your deployment.

 

[tcmalker]

Well the actual base here and the NATO forces isnt bad at all. My unit is horrible and I am having a rough time this deployment due to that. This is my third and by far my WORST deployment to date. I have not been able to enjoy it in the least bit. I guess I will just have to be patient for my return to home to come. When that happens I will be able to ride! I am very excited and cannot wait to go out on trips. I have a few coworkers that have been riding for some time. I do not know the exact amount of years of experiance they have but they have been very willing to ride with me to teach me. The one guy is older and rides crusiers. He was very excited when I told him that I got a bike as him and I are fairly close friends. I am glad to hear that you had a good time on your deployment.

It wasn't all good believe me. Like you, I was with a bad unit. Bad in a sense that I was cross-leveled and I wasn't one of their guys. So they didn't take care of me. But once I got sent away to Kandahar, I was able to be away from all their B.S. I guess you can't tell me exactly where you are because of OPSEC, but can you at least tell me your MOS? I was a 21T.

I assume you're about half way through your deployment? Did you just came back to the states for your R&R and took the MSF class? Time flies man. Try to enjoy your time over there, and BE SAFE!

 

[ANLR21]

First off, thanks for what you're doing for us and our country.

Second, lonesoldier84 is providing good advice and sums it up nicely, gives a good perspective of real experience out there.

Last, it wasn't clear to me if this was your intent early on, but please make sure that you are really comfortable, confident and stable on the bike before taking your wife out for a ride. It will be very tempting to do so early on, but a passenger introduces an entirely new set of considerations and reactions, even if they know what to do. Make sure that she too is comfortable, confident and stable as well before you jump on the back. Back-seat driving doesn't play well on a bike

Be safe out there, and GEAR UP!!

 

[lonesoldier84]

Don't sweat it! It's just like riding a bicycle. There's nothing else you can do to make you a better riding in the streets.

Started in August this year. Already had two accidents.

LOL

Oh I love this post. If it was posted on ANY other biking forum I'm on it would have gotten about 10 pages of thorough flaming.

But for this forum, I will just say it takes longer than a handful of months to learn how to ride my good man. That doesn’t just mean having the ability to flip the bike back and forth as you rail through corners, that means precise control to deal with what’s happening around you. And unless you ride like my grandma drives her car, having the ability to manage your bike effectively and effortlessly in corners is essential to your safety as well.

“Panic-mode” sets in when you are in over your head. You are not immune to panic-mode for a long, long, loooong time. Say you’re mid corner and a deer jumps out as you are trying to course-correct around a pothole. What do you do?

Well some of the more experienced riders might make it out because they did “stuff” to make them “better”.

However, from your logic and in your case, I would have to say…..

RIP deer…..and hello accident number three!!!

 

[tcmalker]

LOL

Oh I love this post. If it was posted on ANY other biking forum I'm on it would have gotten about 10 pages of thorough flaming.

But for this forum, I will just say it takes longer than a handful of months to learn how to ride my good man. That doesn’t just mean having the ability to flip the bike back and forth as you rail through corners, that means precise control to deal with what’s happening around you. And unless you ride like my grandma drives her car, having the ability to manage your bike effectively and effortlessly in corners is essential to your safety.

“Panic-mode” sets in when you are in over your head. You are not immune to panic-mode for a long, long, loooong time. Say you’re mid corner and a deer jumps out as you are trying to course-correct around a pothole. What do you do?

Well some of the more experienced riders might make it out because they did “stuff” to make them “better”.

However, from your logic and in your case, I would have to say…..

RIP deer…..and hello accident number three!!!

I like flaming, please flame away flamers! Like I said, take it for what it is, my personal opinion. I am just sharing my personal experience. I just want to let the OP know that once he rides for a few days, most of his fears/worries will be gone. To me, it doesn't make a different if you have a year or 5 years of riding experience under your belt. Once you get to a point where you feel comfortable, there isn't much else you can do. You definitely can learn to ride safer, but you won't be able to ride better.

As for my accidents, it happen to the best of us. How many time have you been in an accident lone?

 

[master111400]

First off, thanks for what you're doing for us and our country.

Second, lonesoldier84 is providing good advice and sums it up nicely, gives a good perspective of real experience out there.

Last, it wasn't clear to me if this was your intent early on, but please make sure that you are really comfortable, confident and stable on the bike before taking your wife out for a ride. It will be very tempting to do so early on, but a passenger introduces an entirely new set of considerations and reactions, even if they know what to do. Make sure that she too is comfortable, confident and stable as well before you jump on the back. Back-seat driving doesn't play well on a bike

Be safe out there, and GEAR UP!!

tcmalker, I am a 15F. To make it easy on you I am an aircraft electrician. I repair electrical and avionics systems on Chinooks and Blackhawks. I am actually about three fourths of the way done with this deployment. I have just under 3 months left in country. I can see what you are saying about that unit not taking care of you. I was actually detached from my unit here and attached to another aviation unit on another fob and had a great time. They took better care of me than my actual unit did. Glad you could make the best of it though.

ANLR21, My intent is by no means to go home and throw my wife on the back of the bike. I actually plan on buying another bike after this one is paid off and my wife wants this bike. We will be sharing the bike between the two of us. I am sure eventually we will both ride on one bike together but not until I am much more expierance on the motorcycle. Thanks very much for the support. It seems to be harder and harder to come across these days.

 

[lonesoldier84]

I like flaming, please flame away flamers! Like I said, take it for what it is, my personal opinion. I am just sharing my personal experience. I just want to let the OP know that once he rides for a few days, most of his fears/worries will be gone. To me, it doesn't make a different if you have a year or 5 years of riding experience under your belt. Once you get to a point where you feel comfortable, there isn't much else you can do. You definitely can learn to ride safer, but you won't be able to ride better.

As for my accidents, it happen to the best of us. How many time have you been in an accident lone?

I'm not one to flame. Just saying the other forums would have roasted you quite thoroughly.

I've had a total of 5 times my bike hit the ground. But I mess around a lot and do things with it that I shouldn't.

Let me point at the area where you are incorrect.

it doesn't make a different if you have a year or 5 years of riding experience under your belt

you won't be able to ride better

Are you really telling me than I am no better of a rider today than I was 4 months after I started riding?

Seriously man....that's just retarded. It really is.

Seeing a patch of gravel you didn't expect at a time you don't want to see it is enough to make a rider with 4 months of experience pucker up and grip his seat tighter. Experienced rider with 5 years experience? He will not even raise an eyebrow.

Puckered up or smooth operator....who is less likely to panic and lock up and send the bike off the side of the road?

Or say instead of seeing gravel, you hit a patch of recently spilled oil. Are you telling me someone with 30 years experience that does 100,000 miles a year every year would have an EQUAL liklihood of crashing in that situation as a rider with 4 months experience?

Or say you come around a blind corner and a gravel truck has just recently crashed and the road has a foot of gravel all over the place. 4 months experience......enough to surf through it!!!

You talk about riding being sunny days, slow speeds and clean corners. If that's ALL you're referring to, then yeah I agree with you. 4 months experience is as good as 5 years. But you talk about motorcycling as though you have soaked it all in and are well-versed in it.

Well......you're not. Sorry bud. But you just arent. If you were you wouldn't be holding such incorrect opinions. You say it is "just your opinion" but there is such thing as an incorrect opinion.

How many rear end slides have you surfed through? How many brake/throttle/swerve/brake/brake/throttle situations have you been in?

Some of us practice that stuff. We have better bike control because of it. It's not JUST experience that makes someone a better rider. I have ridden with guys who have been riding for 20 years who have poorer bike control than I do. I'm not saying I'm hot stuff, I have also ridden with guys whose turds have better bike control than I do. But I am a better rider than some because I TRIED to MAKE myself a better rider.

Parking lot practice. Reading books. Practicing the book's lessons while on highway trips. Practicing the stuff locally. Time spent on dirt intentionally to get a better feel for loose rear end and **** front braking. Adding a couple years of experience.....

You definitely [can't] learn to ride better

Yeah.....it is just your opinion.

But sorry man.....it's incorrect. Terribly, grossly, egregiously.....incorrect.

 

[tcmalker]

Loneman, let's not argue over this anymore. I admit I am not hot stuff. I admit I have not experience the brake brake throttle swerve brake swerve throttle brake brake swerve situations. All I am saying is I am comfortable with my riding skills.

I am having a blast riding motorcycle. I am not going to bother and go buy a book and practice anything. I've already took MSF and all the learning I'm going get from now on is simply by riding. Life's a dance, you learn as you go....JMM

 

[lonesoldier84]

Loneman, let's not argue over this anymore. I admit I am not hot stuff. I admit I have not experience the brake brake throttle swerve brake swerve throttle brake brake swerve situations. All I am saying is I am comfortable with my riding skills.

I am having a blast riding motorcycle. I am not going to bother and go buy a book and practice anything. I've already took MSF and all the learning I'm going get from now on is simply by riding. Life's a dance, you learn as you go....JMM

Dude, that's fine. But don't tell a new guy asking "how can I get better?" "Sorry, there is nothing you can do to get better."

NOT ON MY WATCH!!!



I am happy you enjoy yourself. I am happy you are comfortable, calm, and collected when you ride. I really am. Riding is awesome and I know you and I both know that.....so yeah, no need to argue.

Your opinion was just incorrect and I needed to correct it so the OP didn't buy into it.


P.S. If you try to learn more effectively, you will be a better rider. Books, dirt, etc etc, all of it will make you better. Like I said I know guys who have been riding 20 years that don't know how to ride as well as guys riding 2-4 years. It's not just a matter of experience. And no, it's not just a matter of "racing". It's about bike control. Bike control helps in real life situations, and experience is a great teacher. But it's not the best teacher. Proactive learning PLUS experience is the best way.

So, let's not discourage someone eager to learn because we feel it is utterly impossible to become a better rider.

 

[FB400]

Having passed the MSF in Oct 2009 and had my FZ6 since Nov 2009, I feel really good about 1 solid year of riding. I did just over 8,000 miles.

You start off very tentative in the first 1,000 miles or so. But in the very early going, you can do easy rides and practice in parking lots until you feel confident to head out.

A week after I passed the MSF I turned to resident MSF Instructor, Vegasrider for tips. He told me to find the sweet spot of the brakes... go to a vacant parking lot and find how hard you can apply the brakes without locking them up. You may also practice swerving and some of the drills you did in MSF. You want to slowly build your skills by practicing them in a safe place.

And +1 to Lone for suggesting the excellent advice he has. Get the book Proficient Motorycling, I am reading it now and it is really excellent. I already improved my cornering by practicing better control of corner entry speed. Slow Look Lean Roll (accelerate).

Most people on this site value safety before everything else. There's no mistaking it, riding within your abilities will be the best way to insure you live to ride another day.

and oh yeah, :welcome:. You've found an awesome community here

 

[lonesoldier84]

Sounds like a great first year FB. Go on any trips?

Also, it is worth mentioning an interesting stat....

Your odds of getting into an accident causing injury are at their highest during rider year 2 and 3. My thinking is that it has to do with comfort going up but skills not catching up to comfort level.

 

[FB400]

Sounds like a great first year FB. Go on any trips?

Also, it is worth mentioning an interesting stat....

Your odds of getting into an accident causing injury are at their highest during rider year 2 and 3. My thinking is that it has to do with comfort going up but skills not catching up to comfort level.

Well, being from Long Island means not that many places to ride. And some pretty boring riding at that. So, yeah have done a half dozen or so day trips. A couple times to Connecticut. A few times up and across the hudson river into upstate new York (West Point, Bear Mountain, Orange County Choppers 2x). We did Greenport LI 3x. It helped that I hooked up with like the only other Long Islander member of this forum, SD Willie.

If things go well, we're going to do a trip to Toronto in the spring. Not sure how my creaky lower back can handle that given I still have the stock seat, Ouch!!!

 

[Dunno]

I actually plan on buying another bike after this one is paid off and my wife wants this bike. We will be sharing the bike between the two of us. I am sure eventually we will both ride on one bike together but not until I am much more expierance on the motorcycle.

Can I suggest a dirt bike? Depends on what you want to learn of course. If you are talking about road craft & learning to identify & avoid situations before they occur it's a matter of riding getting out & doing loads of riding.

If you want to learn more about controlling the bike ie throttle application, emergency braking, counter steering etc............... buy a small dirt bike. Buy a little chook chaser & give it a flogging over the summer months. Get used to a bike that moves around underneath you & the lack of adhesion to the riding surface.

Ride a dirt bike over the summer & then jump on the road bike. The road bike will feel so much more stable & your confidence will soar when you realise you are now prepared for situations when the bike suddenly slides or steps out. Your braking will also improve & you will find you are more delicate with the lever but are able to stop quicker & with precision.

It's a long term prospect but so is your life & that of your wife. Spend a few months "training" in the dirt (just like the GP racers) & your skills will improve outta sight.

Good luck & have fun :thumbup: