gas gauge always reads empty

[Motogiro]

ok so the kink in the fuel line was not the problem...so $50 later i get the bike to start but once it hits between 800 and 915 rpms the bike simply dies?...please help im going through riding withdrawal

Your idle should be set at around 1200RPM.

 

[Motogiro]

I looked at a service manual and was trying to find the fuel gauge assembly but couldn't find a discrete assembly so I'm going to assume it's part of the fuel pump assembly. I'm thinking it's a thin metal arm with a float or it's a float on a shaft. Part of the fuel gauge sending unit may be a very delicate wire winding with a wiper or possibly another material used to create a variable resistance.
It is possible that this is where the problem is.
If anyone has more info/experience on the fuel sensor, please jump in here.
Today there may be any number of ways a sensor could be developed and there for it may have a different way of sensing fuel levels in the tank.

Now please! Turn your idle up to about 1200 or 1300 rpm and go for a spin!:rockon:

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I looked at a service manual and was trying to find the fuel gauge assembly but couldn't find a discrete assembly so I'm going to assume it's part of the fuel pump assembly. I'm thinking it's a thin metal arm with a float or it's a float on a shaft. Part of the fuel gauge sending unit may be a very delicate wire winding with a wiper or possibly another material used to create a variable resistance.
It is possible that this is where the problem is.
If anyone has more info/experience on the fuel sensor, please jump in here.
Today there may be any number of ways a sensor could be developed and there for it may have a different way of sensing fuel levels in the tank.

Now please! Turn your idle up to about 1200 or 1300 rpm and go for a spin!:rockon:

The fuel level sensor is a separate unit that snaps onto the fuel pump. It does have a float and float arm(with windings as you mention). Both have to be separated in the tank to get them out of the tank but can go back in as one piece. The snap is weird to un-snap initially, especially working inside the tank.

As for sparking, if the ignition was off there's no power going to the pump/gas gauge so your good there..

I mentioned in an earlier post, the connection at the gas tank (when assembled) SHOULD NOT LEAK when disconnected from the fuel line. His leaks badly, there is something (crap maybe) stuck/wrong there.. To my knowledge, this has NOT been addressed... What evers holding it open may be blocking the fuel flow....

What zip ties are by the fuel fuel pump?

Scott

 

[crazy dave]

ok whoever owned he bike before me broke the clips that hold the floating arm piece to the rest of the pump...so they attached it to the pump with zipties...thos are the zipties i had to cut to get the unit out when i was fizxing the floating arm...that works now...i looked for anything that could be jammed in the valve but i could not see anything...there was a bunch of crap on the filter tho which i removed...as for the rpms...it does not even get to the point of idling...it just starts puffs 3 or 4 times and dies...i checked every connection and fuse i was able to find to make sure they were not disconnected or damaged and everything looks fine...the fuel pump relay even clicks on...nothing is wrong with the air intake either...i tried disconnecting the battery to let the computer relearn with no luck....would topping off the tank make a difference?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Topping the tank wouldn't make a difference....


I believe your bike was one of the years with the re-called TPS.

Have you checked with Yamaha? They can run your VIN# and let you know. The fix is free and the TPS can do some weird things.

Also, if you got crap off the fuel filter, I would strongly suggest R&R'ing the gas tank, dump the fuel (try to catch it and look for debris), blow with an air compressor (if available) and flush again until no more crap comes out. (I know its a PIA, but if its crapped up, it'll clog up again).

You can disconnect your fuel line at the fuel rail and turn on the ignition (DO NOT START), have a catch bucket as fuel should be pumped out at approx 36PSI... You'll hear the pump prime up... I'm not sure but there should also be a connection on the fuel rail to check actual fuel pressure with a gauge. If you remove this connection, you'll flush the rail out...

I have an 07 model, Yamaha shop manual as a PDF if you need it e-mailed to you....It would probably help... I'd need an e-mail address to send it..

 

[crazy dave]

Well I can tell u its not the tps...checked that already and mine was not effected...I went to the diagnostics check on the bike and I believe d09 is fuel pressure...I'm only getting 12.5 but ill do everything else I'm able to when I get home using your advice...also is it a possibility for throttle bodies to become flooded?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

On some of the FJR's, if they were shut down before they got warmed up and you turned it off, they would load up/flood when trying to re-start.

To start it at that point, hold the throttle wide open (DO NOT CLOSE IT) and crank the bike for 10-15 seconds. Stop, let the starter cool down and repeat.. It may take 3-4 times...

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Under the tech section, of the top 4 posts, the forth one down shows the fault codes...



I found this one:

Fault Code: 43
Diagnostic Code: 09
Symptom: Supply power to the injector and fuel pump is not normal
Probable cause of malfunction:
Open circuit in wiring harness. (red/blue line or blue/yellow line)
Malfunction in ECU.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
If you have a volt meter, check the voltage to the fuel pump (when you first cycle it on and hear it run for a second or two). You should have 12 volts there.

 

[Motogiro]

Well I can tell u its not the tps...checked that already and mine was not effected...I went to the diagnostics check on the bike and I believe d09 is fuel pressure...I'm only getting 12.5 but ill do everything else I'm able to when I get home using your advice...also is it a possibility for throttle bodies to become flooded?

If you had a bad injector or a faulty TPS you could flood the engine. There is an idle adjustment screw.
I know there may be other issues but just for Sh*ts N Giggles, Try turning the idle screw to the right (Clockwise) and see if you can't get the bike to at least idle. Here's an attached PDF the shows the Idle screw location.

Edit:Sorry, Messed up the attachment at first.:spank:

I don't know what your overall experience is so please don't take this the wrong way:
As a note of safety, fuel can ignite with the simplest of conditions. So anytime you have open, exposed fuel vapors and there is any available ignition source, for example: static, open flame, etc. you can have a bad problem. You should work in as open an environment as possible. Ventilated areas are of course better than enclosed. For example: If your in an area that hot a water heater shares to may have an open ignition source from the pilot.
so fumes in the room can be ignited from 30 feet away from the tank. This means that you could possibly drop a tool on a concrete floor and have ignition.

If you're in an enclosed area please provide ventilation for fumes as well as a way out for your self along with some form of fire suppression.
Better not to provide the conditions for ignition.:rockon:

 

[crazy dave]

If you had a bad injector or a faulty TPS you could flood the engine. There is an idle adjustment screw.
I know there may be other issues but just for Sh*ts N Giggles, Try turning the idle screw to the right (Clockwise) and see if you can't get the bike to at least idle. Here's an attached PDF the shows the Idle screw location.

Edit:Sorry, Messed up the attachment at first.:spank:

I don't know what your overall experience is so please don't take this the wrong way:
As a note of safety, fuel can ignite with the simplest of conditions. So anytime you have open, exposed fuel vapors and there is any available ignition source, for example: static, open flame, etc. you can have a bad problem. You should work in as open an environment as possible. Ventilated areas are of course better than enclosed. For example: If your in an area that hot a water heater shares to may have an open ignition source from the pilot.
so fumes in the room can be ignited from 30 feet away from the tank. This means that you could possibly drop a tool on a concrete floor and have ignition.

If you're in an enclosed area please provide ventilation for fumes as well as a way out for your self along with some form of fire suppression.
Better not to provide the conditions for ignition.:rockon:

ok thanks...i will try everything i could to get it started...as for the diagnostics im guessing the 12.5 was amount of power the fuel pump was gettin which seems normal...i am working in the garage with a wide open door and exhaust fan so fumes are no problem...i am more experienced then most with this kind of stuff from my car...installed own starter intakes altenators etc....so now i guess you can say im teaching my self motorcycles

 

[crazy dave]

thank you for the manual....also i did the fuel pressure test and that was fine...but the safety valve mentioned earlier doesnt seem to be working...when i take off the fuel line gas continuously pours out until empty. Maybe i missed something when looking...where exactly should i be looking? Or possibly that part just went bad?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

thank you for the manual....also i did the fuel pressure test and that was fine...but the safety valve mentioned earlier doesnt seem to be working...when i take off the fuel line gas continuously pours out until empty. Maybe i missed something when looking...where exactly should i be looking? Or possibly that part just went bad?

Your very welcome. As for the valve, I don't know, I've never had it apart. If your getting fuel pressure, it probably won't make a difference anyway. It may have a check ball with crap holding it partially open......

 

[crazy dave]

i think i will take a video of what is happening with the bike for better understanding and maybe its something simple im missing.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I know you said earlier you checked the TPS, did Yamaha do the re-call on it if it was affected?

BTW, when checking the TPS, you want to just check the high and low #'s but ALL THE #'s in-between. They cannot skip or be missing any.

Did you pull a spark plug wire, plug it into a spark plug, ground it and crank it over? Do you have a healthy spark?

With that said, yes maybe a you tube or link of trying to get it running would help.

 

[crazy dave]

ok heres the video...just tried starting it a few time...the last one i held the throttle for a few seconds.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFZMhyvQIDY]YouTube - Picture.MOV[/ame]

 

[crazy dave]

and these are the diagnostics


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqFdT5gniCQ"]YouTube - Picture2[/ame]

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Fault Code: 42
Diagnostic Code: 07, 21 Symptom: No normal signals are received from the speed sensor; or, an open or
short circuit is detected in the neutral switch.
Probable cause of malfunction:
Open or short circuit in wiring harness.
Defective speed sensor.
Malfunction in vehicle speed sensor detected unit.
Defective neutral switch.
Malfunction in the engine side of the neutral switch.
Malfunction in ECU.

__________________________________________________________________________________________

I believe the speed sensor is located at the rear of the engine and the wires come up under the tank (3 wire's). I'd check those being you had the tank off for painting, you can also ground out the neutral wire switch (under the sprocket cover) by passing the switch for testing...

I think I'd be checking all wires/harness connectors under the tank and wherever else you were working... Good luck..

As suggested earlier, turn the idle screw up, it should idle, once started at 12-1300 RPM.

I'd also like to know if the re-call on the TPS WAS DONE? Not just you testing it... All it takes is a phone call.....

All the 04 FZ6's and FJR's had the TPS re-called, I had my 2004 FJR TPS replaced for free.. If you read in the tech section, it goes deeper into TPS symptoms...

 

[crazy dave]

i have asked when i bought the bike if it was done and they said that it was checked by them and mine was not affected...now to go check those wires again lol

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Call Yamaha headquarters DIRECT and give them your vin #. They will tell you if its been done.

I would not trust the dealership, period. They sold you a bike with obvious problems and didn't disclose them... They don't make much on the re-call but you need to rule the basic, known problems out....

 

[Motogiro]

i have asked when i bought the bike if it was done and they said that it was checked by them and mine was not affected...now to go check those wires again lol

I would still put the bike in it's diagnostic mode and test the TPS because even though it's not a recall it doesn't mean the TPS hasn't failed. You could have an 08 and the TPS can go bad.
I snagged this for you:


Throttle Position Sensor Issues (Are you Experiencing Poor Idle/Mileage, or Stalls?)


What are the Symptoms of a Faulty TPS?

* Stalling
* Irregual idle
* RPM Drop while acclerating or trying to maintain a constand speed.
* Drop in fuel Mileage
* Poor Throttle Response

Originally Posted by Megatron on sportbikes.net
To check the TPS values, you have to press and hold SELECT + RESET, then turn the key and keep them pressed for 8 more seconds.

It'll appear dIAg on the display, you can release them now. Afterwards use select until you see a d01 (Diagnostic Mode for the TPS)

Then it should read between 15 and 17 if the throttle is closed,
With the throttle fully open, it should read between 97 and 100.

If the values are over or below those I mentioned, the TPS should be replaced.

To leave the dIAG mode, simply turn the key counter clockwise.

For more discussion on testing TPS, see this post:
http://forums.sportbikes.net/forums/...&postcount=247



Here's a link:
http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-...ou-experiencing-poor-idle-mileage-stalls.html

You should be able to slowly turn the throttle on the number will graduate from the low to high without jumping. You shouldn't see any dead spots as you turn the throttle and the low and high numbers should be the same from low to high.