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Radiator fan question

FB400

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I took the bike out today on an 80 degree day. I was looking for a hard to find address for about 20 minutes thru some slow very hilly roads. I noticed the temperature get to one or 2 bars before the top. When I stopped and turned the bike off I was surprised the the fan did not continue to run after I turned the key off. What good is it to have the fan run only when the ignition is on? I thought for sure it would run for a few minutes to cool the machine down once I removed the key. Normal for this bike?
 
Normal. If the engine's not running, there's no need for the fan to run, as no coolant is being circulated.

Just look at a car...very few have a fan that runs after the car is shut off.

Once the engine is shut off, no heat is being added to the engine, so it won't get any hotter.
 
Thanks guys. I think this makes sense. I thought I saw a video of a bike for sale where the fan continued to run after it was shut off. btw, the bike cooled off really fast.
 
Actually, most car fans will continue to run after shut off. At least I know mine does....Think about it...That engine is still hot no matter if it is running or not...the fan runs after the engine is shut off to help move the air over the engine to continue cooling it....Much like a turbo timer is set up on a turbo to help cool it off after running....
Just my .02
 
Actually, most car fans will continue to run after shut off. At least I know mine does....Think about it...That engine is still hot no matter if it is running or not...the fan runs after the engine is shut off to help move the air over the engine to continue cooling it....Much like a turbo timer is set up on a turbo to help cool it off after running....
Just my .02

I think Hondas and VW's do this. Bust most don't.
 
The fan is there to pull air through the radiator, not over the motor. Air blowing from a fan over a hot block would do little to cool the engine. The coolant is cooled in the radiator then recirculated inside the block to draw heat out and back to the radiator, rinse and repeat.

Obviously, air cooled bikes are designed a bit differently.
 
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If you turn the bike off via stop switch, but the leave the key on, then the fan will continue to run. That might've been what you saw in the video you mentioned.
 
there is some bad info in this thread

leave the key on...everything will stay on and the bike will cool faster..basically the radiator will continue to work

if your fan isn't working, first chk the fuse then go from there

many many engines run the fan after you shut it down, not just hondas and vw's

the engine will actually gain heat even when its off as there is no cold air circulating around it, yes even liquid cooled engines are cooled somewhat by air flow

my 2 cents
 
there is some bad info in this thread

leave the key on...everything will stay on and the bike will cool faster..basically the radiator will continue to work

if your fan isn't working, first chk the fuse then go from there

many many engines run the fan after you shut it down, not just hondas and vw's

the engine will actually gain heat even when its off as there is no cold air circulating around it, yes even liquid cooled engines are cooled somewhat by air flow

my 2 cents

But in the end, if there are no moving parts, it doesn't matter if it heats up slightly. Any heat gain will be minimal at best (a few degrees).

And no, many many engines don't run the fan after shutting down. That's just too vague of an answer.
 
there is some bad info in this thread

leave the key on...everything will stay on and the bike will cool faster..basically the radiator will continue to work

if your fan isn't working, first chk the fuse then go from there

many many engines run the fan after you shut it down, not just hondas and vw's

the engine will actually gain heat even when its off as there is no cold air circulating around it, yes even liquid cooled engines are cooled somewhat by air flow

my 2 cents

+1....My post might have been confusing now that I read it again....and yes more vehicles than just VW's and Honda's run the fans...Mine is a saturn and it runs the fan....

and yes the engine does get hotter after you shut it down since the coolant is no longer cycling through the radiator...Run your car/bike hard and get it warm and then shut it down...watch the temp guage...I would be it gets warmer....

Just my .02
 
+1....My post might have been confusing now that I read it again....and yes more vehicles than just VW's and Honda's run the fans...Mine is a saturn and it runs the fan....

and yes the engine does get hotter after you shut it down since the coolant is no longer cycling through the radiator...Run your car/bike hard and get it warm and then shut it down...watch the temp guage...I would be it gets warmer....

Just my .02

As the engine temperature sensor is mounted 'inside' the thermostat, it's reading the coolant temp in the water jacket, rather than what's in the radiator. When the engine stops running, and coolant stops circulating, the coolant will heat a bit more because it's now trapped in whatever location it was at when the bike shut down. As there is no heat source other than the heat trapped in the metal mass from combustion, the 'rise' is limited.

The engine itself cannot be getting hotter. No heat source is adding more heat. The residual heat from combustion is merely being redistributed.
 
The engine itself cannot be getting hotter. No heat source is adding more heat. The residual heat from combustion is merely being redistributed.

Which means parts are getting hotter after the engine is shut down than they would if it was running... Quite a few VW/Audi/Porsches have electric water pumps that come on after the motor is shut down to circumvent this. Coolant can boil when a hot motor is shut down due to heat soak, turbo cars especially have this problem due to the very hot exhaust, intake and turbo(s) all sitting under the hood which now has no air moving through it. This can quickly become an issue when you are on the autobahn doing 140mph, then immediately stop to get fuel.

This really isn't an issue on the FZ6 due to the engine being so exposed and aluminum. Heat is expelled pretty quickly. Still though, as others mentioned, you can still see a 15+ F temp rise on a hot day after the motor is shut off.
 
Which means parts are getting hotter after the engine is shut down than they would if it was running... Quite a few VW/Audi/Porsches have electric water pumps that come on after the motor is shut down to circumvent this. Coolant can boil when a hot motor is shut down due to heat soak, turbo cars especially have this problem due to the very hot exhaust, intake and turbo(s) all sitting under the hood which now has no air moving through it. This can quickly become an issue when you are on the autobahn doing 140mph, then immediately stop to get fuel.

This really isn't an issue on the FZ6 due to the engine being so exposed and aluminum. Heat is expelled pretty quickly. Still though, as others mentioned, you can still see a 15+ F temp rise on a hot day after the motor is shut off.

It's hair splitting, either way.:thumbup: So long as the engine is not running, and you aren't actively spinning engine parts....... what difference does the coolant temp make? So long as it stays below it's boiling point, it's pretty much meaningless. Even then, the 'threat' is limited to coolant overflow, and the potential subsequent operation with too little engine coolant.

Localized boiling of coolant after engine shut down? Sounds like bad design, to me. :D If someone buys a $150,000 car, and it sounds like it has indigestion when you are walking away from it......:eek: I think the marketing department may request a 'fix' for that.

If there is no heat source, all you are doing is redistributing the heat that is already there. Heat soak starts from the cylinder, and works it's way into the head (and cylinder bore to a lessor degree), right? This is why the valve area in the heads will develop a cooked on layer of oil over time..... 'coking' as it's described. The heat from the cylinders travels 'up' and the head itself has very little heat transport from the water jacket.... it's all on the engine oil. No oil flow..... localized trapped heat, tar.

I'd agree, turbos add another level of complexity to cooling requirements. Piping 1500 degree exhaust to a turbine to run the compressor means heat soak will raise the temp on the turbine (and it's bearings) to extreme temps.

The water jacket will not help there, either. That sudden sharp spike of heat soak is what kills turbos..... and why it's a really bad idea to shut one down without letting it idle for a while, so the turbine has a chance to cool off some. If not.... it will cook the lube oil. As far as I am aware most turbos' turbines use and independant lube supply so that they can run oils that are much more resistant to this issue.

'Turbo rated' engine oil is some very good marketing........... It's not (as far as I am aware) actually supporting the turbo at all.
 
This really isn't an issue on the FZ6 due to the engine being so exposed and aluminum. Heat is expelled pretty quickly. Still though, as others mentioned, you can still see a 15+ F temp rise on a hot day after the motor is shut off.


I think I might be able to explain the perception the the engine continues to gain heat after it has been shut off when actually it doesn't.
Once the engine is shut off there is no more internal combustion to create additional heat. The coolant which is generally circulated buy the water pump stops circulating. Depending on where the temperature sensor is mounted on the engine, you may see a rise in it's reading (and you generally do) because heat is still being transferred to the coolant but the coolant is no longer being circulated to cool off. Still there is no additional energy being expended to increase engine temperature. It seems like it is and in fact the continued transfer of heat from the shut off engine might continue to the point of boil over or expansion making it seem like the temperature is still rising but in fact it isn't.
If your motor is over heating Shut it off and don't think that it will stay cooler if you leave it run. Shut it off. The engine will not get hotter!
 
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It's hair splitting, either way.:thumbup: So long as the engine is not running, and you aren't actively spinning engine parts....... what difference does the coolant temp make? So long as it stays below it's boiling point, it's pretty much meaningless. Even then, the 'threat' is limited to coolant overflow, and the potential subsequent operation with too little engine coolant.

Not quite. Boiling creates? Yep, bubbles. When you make make bubble in the middle of a cooling jacket, they do to the highest point and sit there. That creates air in the cooling system, doesn't help cooling performance. The after run pumps circulate the coolant in reverse to alleviate this issue.

Localized boiling of coolant after engine shut down? Sounds like bad design, to me. :D If someone buys a $150,000 car, and it sounds like it has indigestion when you are walking away from it......:eek: I think the marketing department may request a 'fix' for that.

If there is no heat source, all you are doing is redistributing the heat that is already there. Heat soak starts from the cylinder, and works it's way into the head (and cylinder bore to a lessor degree), right? This is why the valve area in the heads will develop a cooked on layer of oil over time..... 'coking' as it's described. The heat from the cylinders travels 'up' and the head itself has very little heat transport from the water jacket.... it's all on the engine oil. No oil flow..... localized trapped heat, tar.

I'd agree, turbos add another level of complexity to cooling requirements. Piping 1500 degree exhaust to a turbine to run the compressor means heat soak will raise the temp on the turbine (and it's bearings) to extreme temps.

The water jacket will not help there, either. That sudden sharp spike of heat soak is what kills turbos..... and why it's a really bad idea to shut one down without letting it idle for a while, so the turbine has a chance to cool off some. If not.... it will cook the lube oil. As far as I am aware most turbos' turbines use and independant lube supply so that they can run oils that are much more resistant to this issue.

'Turbo rated' engine oil is some very good marketing........... It's not (as far as I am aware) actually supporting the turbo at all.

Might want to check all your knowledge of turbos. No OEM manufacturer uses a separate oil system for turbos. They get the crankcase oil, just like the rest of the motor. I haven't even heard of any aftermarket system that uses an entirely separate oil system for the turbo. Older turbo cars just had the turbo mid section lubricated and cooled by oil, most newer turbo cars (audi has since the late 80's) use oil to lubricate the bearings and coolant to cool the center section. This is another reason for the afterrun pump, to cool the mid section to prevent oil coking.

Replied in red
 
An engine overheating is almost certainly going to happen due to:

1) failure of a component in the cooling system, or lack of maintenance.
2) engine damage/failure, leading to elevated friction

When a bearing fails, that friction is what generates the stupendous heat that leads to the uncontrolled expansion of metal structures.... which warps things, and causes even more binding and friction and heat. Generally, this is when a radiator 'boils over'. Catastrophic failure has already occurred. Shut it down immediately, to limit the extent of damage. It's already 'hosed'..... now it's a matter of stopping it from becoming worse.

'Regular' heating within the engine is designed for. If a 'normal' 'healthy' engine were to boil it's coolant after shut down...... I would be deeply concerned with the design of the cooling system. If it weren't boiling over before you shut it off, and remove the heat source, and THEN boils over...... how much margin is there, in that design?

I remember watching the Discovery channel show concerning the development of the V Rod.... they took that bike to the deep, deep desert.... 120° F daytime temps, and let the thing idle for hours. Liquid cooled, electric fan, no movement of the bike to aid in airflow/cooling......... no boil over, loss of coolant, or any sort of damage to the motor.

The only way the system could have been tested in a more rigorous environment would have been to do the same test at >10,000 feet elevation, where the air cannot carry as much heat away.

Telecom testing for thermal margin simulates that elevation requirement by increasing temperature 3° C beyond their 'worst case' temp at sea level.
 
Yamaha says to simply shut it off. The manual doesn't say a word about leaving the key on and letting the fan run.

The fan will only cool what is inside the radiator. Since the water pump isn't running, that coolant will not circulate through the engine, thus leaving the fan running does nothing for the engine regardless.

I trust Yamaha... that trust has never let me down and I'm on my 6th blue-blooded iron horse. :D
 
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