HavBlue and the IRS

[HavBlue]

Something came up in another thread and I wanted to address it before it became an issue as for some reason it always does. In my profile you will find my employer listed as the IRS (US Treasury Internal Revenue Service). Some would consider this a less than human job and the people I work with sub human too. This would be understandable if even half the understanding of the IRS and its personnel were true but in 99% of the cases the publics understanding of the IRS is anything but the truth.

In my case I work for the small business and self employment division. Generally speaking I am looking for those people who after roughly 1 year and a load of notices seem to think they are above the law and often refuse to pay, which as it turns out is a really bad idea. Tonight, I closed a case I had been working on for 4 months which involved criminal fraud. This will no doubt save you, the American taxpayer, a minimum of $100,000. By the time a case gets to me all other attempts to secure balances due have been exhausted.

So, when you think about the IRS, don't simply think of what you may be pushing in terms of trying to cheat the system or what your chances of getting audited are. Think about the people who work for the agency and how many of us are out there to actually keep fraudulent returns and refunds from getting out which in turn costs you money. You may also consider that each of us that does work for the agency is held to a much higher standard. We can never owe, we are audited every year and we can never be late on filing.

So, now that we are in an election year in these United States, I will offer you something to think about before you cast your vote. Why is it the when taxes are raised, the government actually collects less money than when taxes are lowered? At present we collect roughly 700 billion dollars a year.

 

[jfreakman]

I think it's simply because most people, even though they know better, hate the thought of giving away their hard-earned money for what they deem to be unreasonable costs, or something that will not benefit them directly. I'm not saying it's right to think that way, just that when you gather around the water cooler, you don't hear people pissed off about how the government built new roads, you hear the people pissed off because another city benefitted or another goverment official got a raise.

In my state, the popular consensus seems to be that if you don't live in Chicago, you don't matter to the electorate, and therefore aren't worthy of tax money. It's not true, but it is the reason people don't like to pay taxes.

 

[wrightme43]

I spent quite a while talking with IRS agents this last year. I have custody of my niece and have for quite a while. That raised a flag, and I was audited by mail. It was all above board and was a hassle, but NOT BECAUSE OF THE PEOPLE. They had to follow their rules and were upfront that this is not personal, and that the rules are the rules. Everyone I talked to was very helpful in getting it resolved. I just had to jump thru alot of hoops, and fax a bunch of stuff, and mail a bunch of stuff.

I mean how many uncles have custody on nieces compared to how many try to claim they do but dont? In thier shoes I would of flagged it too.

I kinda figured it would be nice to know someone in the IRS, at least you could ask a question and get sent to the right place to find out.

I know why if you lower taxes you get more money. Money makes money untill the government gets ahold of it. Then it stops.

 

[jfreakman]

I spent quite a while talking with IRS agents this last year. I have custody of my niece and have for quite a while. That raised a flag, and I was audited by mail. It was all above board and was a hassle, but NOT BECAUSE OF THE PEOPLE. They had to follow their rules and were upfront that this is not personal, and that the rules are the rules. Everyone I talked to was very helpful in getting it resolved. I just had to jump thru alot of hoops, and fax a bunch of stuff, and mail a bunch of stuff.

I mean how many uncles have custody on nieces compared to how many try to claim they do but dont? In thier shoes I would of flagged it too.

I kinda figured it would be nice to know someone in the IRS, at least you could ask a question and get sent to the right place to find out.

I know why if you lower taxes you get more money. Money makes money untill the government gets ahold of it. Then it stops.

well said.

 

[HavBlue]

I think it's simply because most people, even though they know better, hate the thought of giving away their hard-earned money for what they deem to be unreasonable costs, or something that will not benefit them directly. I'm not saying it's right to think that way, just that when you gather around the water cooler, you don't hear people pissed off about how the government built new roads, you hear the people pissed off because another city benefited or another government official got a raise.

In my state, the popular consensus seems to be that if you don't live in Chicago, you don't matter to the electorate, and therefore aren't worthy of tax money. It's not true, but it is the reason people don't like to pay taxes.

I can't tell you how true this is. Unfortunately people don't separate the IRS from the state nor do they consider the taxes paid to the state in one manner or another are far greater than those paid to the Federal government. The other thing they never seem to consider is the costs associated with their vote on services that generally become associated with a new tax or fee to support that program.

Something I have never quite understood is the guy that has no job, is in a collection status (meaning he hasn't paid for the time he was earning money) and yet he wants to pay 5 or 10 dollars a month because he is an American and he wants to do his part. Then, the guy that has an AGI (adjusted gross income) of 100,000 plus who owes 30,000 in back taxes and has owed every year for the past 7 years, refuses to except the fact he and or his accountant can't get the estimated tax right but it's the agencies fault and he refuses to pay. That's cool because I'm going after his bank accounts, wages and if needs be a Federal tax lien will be filed in the county where he lives, which means that house he owns will now become a problem to sell and his credit report just got power slammed. Seven years this guy has been adding to the problem and he continues to pile on the balance. All the while , there are other folks that scrape the barrel just to get it right. I gave up trying to make sense of it all.

 

[jfreakman]

Absolutely. I'd also like to add that although the IRS gives me a nice chunk of change back every year, I always have to pay to the state.

Bah. I'm just glad we don't have a uniform/federal health care system (sorry to the guys across the pond), and that means I get to keep the majority of my paycheck.

 

[HavBlue]

I spent quite a while talking with IRS agents this last year. I have custody of my niece and have for quite a while. That raised a flag, and I was audited by mail. It was all above board and was a hassle, but NOT BECAUSE OF THE PEOPLE. They had to follow their rules and were upfront that this is not personal, and that the rules are the rules. Everyone I talked to was very helpful in getting it resolved. I just had to jump through a lot of hoops, and fax a bunch of stuff, and mail a bunch of stuff.

I mean how many uncles have custody on nieces compared to how many try to claim they do but don't? In their shoes I would of flagged it too.

I kinda figured it would be nice to know someone in the IRS, at least you could ask a question and get sent to the right place to find out.

I know why if you lower taxes you get more money. Money makes money untill the government gets a hold of it. Then it stops.

Steve, this a a big issue and it is also an issue that is fraudulently attempted so often is raises a big flag. I'm glad you got it resolved as I know it probably took you roughly 3 to 6 months and a slew of paperwork.

The reason more money is collected is simple. When taxes are reduced this frees up capitol for companies to hire those people they couldn't hire with the higher tax rate. In doing so it generates more collected revenue from those people who are now working and in other cases more money from those that were working because they just got a raise the company couldn't afford before the reduction. This actually started when JFK was President and it took a while for the powers that be to understand it.

 

[AJ Babaganoosh]

I refuse to enter this discussion on the grounds that it may alienate me.

(And also because this site probably doesn't have enough storage to contain a rant by me on our current tax system)

 

[wrightme43]

It took about 6 months like you said. It really was not a big deal. I did miss a 10 day deadline by a day, but they let that slide. LOL The lady even laughed about it. The final kicker after letters from the landlord, the custody papers from the judge, letters from social services, receipt for daycare, copies of elec and water, was a letter from the principal of her school on school leterhead.

I wore the fax machine out at FedexKinkos.
Hey can I write the fax fees off this year? LOL J/king

 

[HavBlue]

Absolutely. I'd also like to add that although the IRS gives me a nice chunk of change back every year, I always have to pay to the state.

Bah. I'm just glad we don't have a uniform/federal health care system (sorry to the guys across the pond), and that means I get to keep the majority of my paycheck.

You're not the first person I have heard this from. They always seem to get it back from the Fed and somehow their state always gets a portion of that.

In regards to the uniform health plan, again you are so right as the burden this puts on a nations tax structure is beyond belief and not one of them, regardless of the nation that has it, has been monetarily successful. Good call.

 

[wrightme43]

I refuse to enter this discussion on the grounds that it may alienate me.

(And also because this site probably doesn't have enough storage to contain a rant by me on our current tax system)

Oh man, the tax system is all jacked up. I think a plain english law needs to force a rewrite of the legal, and tax codes. If it cant be said in plain simple 12th grade college English, its not a law or a rule.

I bet most of the people that work in it would agree.

 

[jfreakman]

Agreed. if you can't state the law in plain English, it shouldn't be a law.

The above statement should be a law.

And the above.

 

[jfreakman]

You're not the first person I have heard this from. They always seem to get it back from the Fed and somehow their state always gets a portion of that.

In regards to the uniform health plan, again you are so right as the burden this puts on a nations tax structure is beyond belief and not one of them, regardless of the nation that has it, has been monetarily successful. Good call.

Woo! I got one right!

Sorry, it's late, and I am beyond tired.

 

[HavBlue]

It took about 6 months like you said. It really was not a big deal. I did miss a 10 day deadline by a day, but they let that slide. LOL The lady even laughed about it. The final kicker after letters from the landlord, the custody papers from the judge, letters from social services, receipt for daycare, copies of elec and water, was a letter from the principal of her school on school letterhead.

I wore the fax machine out at FedexKinkos.
Hey can I write the fax fees off this year? LOL J/king

Different departments operate in different ways. Had this gone through SB/SE where I am it would have been one phone call from you and one mailing to the appropriate service center. I can't tell you how it burns my butt to see a case where some poor guy or gal has been dancing through hoops to get a problem like this resolved. It's not that big a deal. It simply requires specific documentation and some time to validate that documentation.

As to the write off, 1-800-829-1040. Do not put in a social security number. Wait on the line to speak with the tax law folks and explain the circumstances as you may have an out. If you had any penalties paid, you can ask for abatement based on just cause. Let me know and I will explain...

 

[HavBlue]

I refuse to enter this discussion on the grounds that it may alienate me.

(And also because this site probably doesn't have enough storage to contain a rant by me on our current tax system)

Oh please, I would love to hear this one. Lets see, is it the income tax not being constitutional one? Or, is it the 2 dozen or so other nutty excuses that while funny remain illegal. As it turns out the system is the most complex on the planet and yet in many cases it is also the cheapest. Maybe we can get one of the folks from across the pond to tell us about their tax structure and the costs associated therein.

 

[HavBlue]

Oh man, the tax system is all jacked up. I think a plain english law needs to force a rewrite of the legal, and tax codes. If it cant be said in plain simple 12th grade college English, its not a law or a rule.

I bet most of the people that work in it would agree.

That would never work. The rule of law be it tax or otherwise must remain complex thus avoiding a slew of loop holes big enough to swallow up the planet Jupiter and that's a serious hole.

An example of this would be you and your FZ6. The law says thou shalt not exceed 70mph on I65 and 55mph on 31W. Pretty simple law and well within reach of any 6th grade student of English yet neither one of us can understand it because the bikes keep going north of that by about 20mph right???

 

[DefyInertia]

HavBlue - no worries - we love you man!!! lol

Why is it the when taxes are raised, the government actually collects less money than when taxes are lowered? At present we collect roughly 700 billion dollars a year.

Bell curve!

I kinda figured it would be nice to know someone in the IRS, at least you could ask a question and get sent to the right place to find out.

Don't forget the accountants and attorneys! If you have a problem, I'd highly recommend going to a qualified professional before you went to the IRS [I'm not in any way suggesting you couldn't/shouldn't go to HavBlue as a friend].

They always seem to get it back from the Fed and somehow their state always gets a portion of that.

This has not been my experience not to mention that's a funny way of thinking about it.

I think a plain english law needs to force a rewrite of the legal, and tax codes. If it cant be said in plain simple 12th grade college English, its not a law or a rule.

I bet most of the people that work in it would agree.

I wouldn't...but yes, there is room for improvement

Agreed. if you can't state the law in plain English, it shouldn't be a law.

Go read the 16th amendment...it will make you thankful for the code and regs...
________
Ivana_

 

[Nelly]

I refuse to enter this discussion on the grounds that it may alienate me.

(And also because this site probably doesn't have enough storage to contain a rant by me on our current tax system)

Why post at all then?

 

[Nelly]

Absolutely. I'd also like to add that although the IRS gives me a nice chunk of change back every year, I always have to pay to the state.

Bah. I'm just glad we don't have a uniform/federal health care system (sorry to the guys across the pond), and that means I get to keep the majority of my paycheck.

Hi Mate,
Surely you end up paying for health insurance anyway? The Health service in the UK is not perfect, I can tell though that I have had more from it than I have put in.
3 operations, 16 broken bones, 4 lots of stitches with all the related follow up. Annual health checks, blood tests.
I cut my foot in Mississippi in 1981 3 stitches cost $300.
The thing that is killing the NHS is people who abuse the system (like anything).

 

[Nelly]

Maybe we can get one of the folks from across the pond to tell us about their tax structure and the costs associated therein.

Yes Mate,

Our system is very simple, I go to work and gross £2500 per month, I look at my Net £1830 , Check where its gone.

Tax £422
NI (health insurance) £204
Pension £157

The pension I dont mind as what I put in my employer matches it.

Any over time I do I pay 40% tax on.
I then pay a council tax £110.00 per month to have my refuse collected and street lights provided.
I then pay tax on my petrol.
I then have to pay a VAT (value added tax) on pretty nuch every thing apart from food. This is 17.5%.
I then pay tax on my savings and when I die my children will pay tax on the tax that I have payed so that I might leave them a miniscule legacy.

You see its all quite fair in the UK.
Bollocks forgot to mention I then pay tax on beer to.

Sorry this is not to helpful so I have put this link in which apparentley tells you how much you can earn and how much tax you pay.

Taxes in UK/Britain/England/London: income tax & national insurance