Raid The Revenge
Super Member
TRIPLE POST
Oh ****....
Oh ****....
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That's It! Obama is a Commie!
It's all command and control economy from hear on out, baby.
Its obvious with guys like Giethner, Gates, and Bernanke at Treasury, Defense, and the Fed, Obama is a Bolshevik!
I'm sure all hear go to their stockholder meetings religiously and rub elbows with all the BOD members of the companies they hold stock in. So obviously the guy at the top must be the best and the brightest objectively. No Crony Capitalism here.
It is also obvious that management did everything right in the American Auto Industry in the past 3 decades, if it just wasn't for those damn commie union workers being so greedy and wanting to be paid enough to afford to put their kids through college, afford the cars they build, have healthcare for their families, and have a decent pension. How dare they!
Fighting CAFE and safety standards tooth & nail and trying to stretch old techonogy out decades and not embracing economy and ecology as the Japanese and European manufactures did had absolutely nothing to do with GM and Chryslers current plight. Nope, it's all your union neighbor's fault.
Yup, It's obvious from everything Obama has done in the last 70 days that he is a Stalinist. So heed Glenn Becks teary eyed warnings and keep your powder dry because the Commies are coming.
It's all command and control economy from hear on out, baby.
Its obvious with guys like Giethner, Gates, and Bernanke at Treasury, Defense, and the Fed, Obama is a Bolshevik!
I'm sure all hear go to their stockholder meetings religiously and rub elbows with all the BOD members of the companies they hold stock in. So obviously the guy at the top must be the best and the brightest objectively. No Crony Capitalism here.
It is also obvious that management did everything right in the American Auto Industry in the past 3 decades, if it just wasn't for those damn commie union workers being so greedy and wanting to be paid enough to afford to put their kids through college, afford the cars they build, have healthcare for their families, and have a decent pension. How dare they!
Fighting CAFE and safety standards tooth & nail and trying to stretch old techonogy out decades and not embracing economy and ecology as the Japanese and European manufactures did had absolutely nothing to do with GM and Chryslers current plight. Nope, it's all your union neighbor's fault.
Yup, It's obvious from everything Obama has done in the last 70 days that he is a Stalinist. So heed Glenn Becks teary eyed warnings and keep your powder dry because the Commies are coming.
W
wrightme43
Exactly I could not of possibly said it better myself. :cheer::thumbup::rockon::cheer:
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No, I'm mad about it, trust me. I was just pointing it out.
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wrightme43
No what I said is Obama is a fruit loop, that his actions are in line with Chavez or Mussolini.
The President does not, can not, and has absolutely no authority to call for the resignation of a CEO. He can state his opinion, and if they are asking for money from the government, he can place strings on it. The share holders elect the board of directors, they choose the CEO. NOT the president.
Again it is not "those damn union workers" it is those damn UNION leaders that are a part of the problem. My dad is a retired full pension GM union worker. Chevy truck assembly then Corvette assembly. I have seen the crap that was pulled. Intentional sabotage of the vehicles rolling down the line. Cutting lights off of wiring harness hanging waiting to be matched to a car, just dumb ass crap.
See here is the deal, I am not for the bail out. I think Wagoner is a part of the problem. I DO NOT however think that the president has ANY say who is the CEO of any company. That our President now does speaks volumes about his understanding of the world.
The President does not, can not, and has absolutely no authority to call for the resignation of a CEO. He can state his opinion, and if they are asking for money from the government, he can place strings on it. The share holders elect the board of directors, they choose the CEO. NOT the president.
Again it is not "those damn union workers" it is those damn UNION leaders that are a part of the problem. My dad is a retired full pension GM union worker. Chevy truck assembly then Corvette assembly. I have seen the crap that was pulled. Intentional sabotage of the vehicles rolling down the line. Cutting lights off of wiring harness hanging waiting to be matched to a car, just dumb ass crap.
See here is the deal, I am not for the bail out. I think Wagoner is a part of the problem. I DO NOT however think that the president has ANY say who is the CEO of any company. That our President now does speaks volumes about his understanding of the world.
CoFZ6
Junior Newbie Trainee
But what can we do about it? Everyone is pissed, but sending tea bags to our legislators seems a pretty weak response to me. Mailing them a dummy 223 round makes more sense and is more appropriate to my level of anger. But if they fail to listen to us what can we do? It obviously doesn't matter which party we vote for as they're all the same underneath. They take us for the sheep we are, and we deserve it, as we continue to vote them back to office. They make a career, and damn lucrative ones at that, off of lying to us and schmoozing us every few years so we'll reelect them. And we do.
Too small of a carbon foot print (I HATE that term) to make a difference.
The total amount of Hybrid cars on the road haven't made the tiniest of dents in pollution. Like other Obama smoke and mirror tricks cars are not the problem, please wait, I'll explain. The big problem are things like freight ships from Asia (they burn a very low grade oil 100X worse than cars), gas powered garden equipment (1 lawnmower = 40 cars running, seriously) and LARGE delivery vehicles that do not have to meet emissions. Changes to these three sources for emissions will do more for air quality than a million hybrid cars.
That said the Volt does look like a good product the planned production volumes are pretty small, about 20K or so, please correct me, and the margin is about zero, eg: a loss leader.
Raid The Revenge
Super Member
I think Obama might be firing executives down the line, until he "strikes gold." I mean, the guy who says "I want to work on the Volt Project," is most likely going to stay.
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alot of good opinions here.. but once again.. do we all agree that some stuff needs to be fundamentally changed.. i think after all this recesion bs, things will be headed into a different direction.. i have faith that we will be going in the right dirrection, but there is always a chance that we could be worse off.. i guess i try to look on the bright side 
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i think that we havent seen that last of these kind of things.. think about the airlines and how broke they are.. or other industries that are tanking and we just havent seen them ask for a bail out yet... it'll all be comming to a head soon i think.. but hopefully it will all work out and we will all be better off in the future.. i mean.. im sure we all agree that "something" had to be done with the car companies due to they were just not viable long term ....
...i think that we havent seen that last of these kind of things.. think about the airlines and how broke they are.. or other industries that are tanking and we just havent seen them ask for a bail out yet... it'll all be comming to a head soon i think.. but hopefully it will all work out and we will all be better off in the future.. i mean.. im sure we all agree that "something" had to be done with the car companies due to they were just not viable long term ....
Well that could work, but remember, for GM to survive, it needs to build cars that people want to buy, not what the government wants to build. GM has some decent cars out there. I am a Saturn fan, and I think the Astra is the best small car GM has ever made, EVER. The Cobalt SS is one of the best handling cars under $30K, and the Corvette ZR1 proved what GM engineers could do with nothing holding them back. That being said, now for the possible tricky parts...
Scenario 1. Ford (who did not take any taxpayer money) starts to hit it's stride and sell more cars. Now that GM is government owned, will there be subsidies to prevent GM from failing? Tax increases on Ford products to help sell the GM vehicles? Now that the UAW is working for the government, what labor deals will be done with Honda, Toyota, Ford, to increase fairness among auto workers? Who in there right mind will hold on to or buy GM stock? If not monitored carefully, the American auto industry could vanish.
Scenario 2. GM actually recovers from this mess. Then what, do you think the Dems will want to give up their control? What will happen to the executives in place when profits start coming in? What type of taxation will be invented then?
Scenario 3. GM tanks, due to the government forcing them to produce energy efficient cars that no one wants to buy. How much cash will go into a failing system? This is my biggest fear, now that GM is a "peoples car", they can not fail. I feel that strong handed government tactics could kill the company. Remember, it is the product stupid. People have to want to buy GM vehicles, not have them forced on to them.
Exactly.
The union should be dead. Now with the "card check legislation" the union will muscle its way into every business.
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wrightme43
Awesome post man. I have not even went down the road in my mind of what happens if GM actually succedes, and the politician are in charge. Only because I cant think of one thing the government has done succesfully with a minimum of scandel, cronyism, and under budget.
I expect GM to fail, GM needs to fail. The huge dept load needs to be discharged, the functional parts sold to other companies, and a functional company can return.
That is the part that scares me, if you think GM is inept now, wait till the government takes full control. Mark Twain once said that "History may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme a lot". All of this does seem kind of familiar. Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act anyone?
"Once a man has made a large sum of money, he usually becomes a bad listener". Paul Theroux
Cuba
Junior Member
Absolutely. Well said. I keep jumping up and down screaming it, none of these policies are new. None of it! The public needs to crack a history book instead of watching their Leader spoon feed teleprompted propaganda. Research national socialism, then take a look around. This isn't some social experiment, it is a recipe for something that already exists. Why isn't he telling you that his model is a massive permanent welfare state with 12-15% unemployment as a baseline? There is no exit strategy here, there is no plan to stop the expansion.
Glad we agree on somethings other than our love of FZ6's.
Oh, now you are going to go all fiscally conservative! Didn't bother you when Bush was making money out of thin air spending almost a Trillion in Iraq that he didn't make you pay for and kept off budget. That was a freebee.
Or how about the Trillions made out of thin air that your beloved LIBERAL FREE-MARKETING WALLSTREETERS created with their Super-duper Double-down Credit Default Swap Derivative Schmivatives and Kielbasa Sausage Mortgage Backed Securities that caused the entire world financial system to collapse.
Now your going to go all Chicken Little about another Trillion to rebuild bridges and roads and other REAL National assets that will benefit us years down the road and put average Americans to work here, and allow businesses here make money? Obama is not trying to destroy capitalism. He is a capitalist.
And Glenn Beck has a point?(Maybe in front of his IQ number!) Please!
I think the point is were do you draw the line? So far it has been spend, spend, spend and reinforce the bad habits that got us into this mess to begin with. Obama and Co and simply reinforcing bad habits; eg: refinancing junk mortgages for a population that has a 50% default rate after a refinance, propping up bad banks and forcing them to take money, and pouring and more money down rat holes.
Today the government is going to warranty cars! GIVE ME A BREAK!
I hate to say it but the markets, business and people need to swallow a very bitter pill. Obama doesn't seem to understand that there IS risk in life, it is a part of life and you can not make everyone happy. Our markets will work this out and the government needs to butt out.
Cuba
Junior Member
Why do you bother attempting to communicate with others about issues you don't understand? Like a small child that wanders into a conversation he cannot comprehend. You think this is about a blue team vs. a red team? And we're all members of one side or the other? So we all agree with whatever our side does or says? Do you think this is a game and your team won so you get to brag about it? You are not educated on the issues, you have not done any research, you do not know what we are talking about, and your childish drama is pathetic man, it really is. Your arguement that the last guy was 1/10th as bad as your guy so I can't argue against your guy's policies is unbelievably stupid. Not that you would have any possible way of knowing (since again you have done no research and don't know what you are talking about) I have always been fiscally conservative. I have never supported wasteful spending, I have always been a huge propenent of less government, less spending, less taxes. I make more money than I spend. I'm a finance director for a private company, so the entire point of my job is to be fiscally conservative. Your tiny brain is apparently incapable of making the distinction between George W. Bush and the roughly half the population of the United States that do not support this new administration. Again, you have not researched the cause and effects of the financial crisis, the evolution of the finance industry, or which parties supported government regulation of it (hint: not your team) and who has benefitted financially from the criminal lending practices of the big F's (hint: Barack Obama and Chris Dodd).
Start here, it's on youtube so it should be easy for you, just like when your leader tells you what you should believe. It even has subtitles to let you know what's going on:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs[/ame]
Sorry to those like myself that were enjoying the civility of this discussion but that had to be said. Don't clog intelligent discussion with stupidity and ignorance. If you disagree with someone's opinion then state your facts and reasoning, support your claim. Ask questions. Research. Think. Please.
end rant
I was crtitcal of W, as were most conservatives. I will be critical of any President, it is part of our duty as citizens. And being critical of Obama has nothing to do with race. The Democrats have not looked at history very closely, as this all has happened before. The Great Depression could have lasted a few years. Then stuff like the Smoot-Hawley Tariff were passed and extended the recession into a decade long depression. Policies matter, and actions speak louder than words. Obama has done nothing new or exciting. He still is the same Senator from Illinois who is a Liberal. The "Hope and Change" that the Media pounded into our heads is nothing but hot air. I want Obama to succeed, it is in our best interest to have him succeed. I just hope he can cut the Pelosi and Reid puppet strings. The new level of taxation in Washington is staggering, and they did it during a recession!! That is not how you jump start an economy. If Obama wants to succeed, he needs to begin ab ovo, NOW.