WTF is wrong with my charging system?

I guess the gremlins couldn't even hold out for a month.
I got the bike from a member here. He warned me that the battery had problems, he tried a tender, and it didn't work right. So he got another tender (Optimate3). When I test rode the bike it didn't start. He charged it with the tender for ten minutes and it started right up.
When I got it home, the next day it was dead again. So, I replaced the battery thinking it probably just wasn't recoverable.
Well, I went for a long ride today (260 miles). On my way home, while in stop and go traffic the engine light went on. I thought it was a temperature warning (it was over 90 and traffic was hardly moving) since every time I drove over 20 it shut off.
I get home, I tried to restart the bike a few minutes later and ..... nothing. Just clicking.. :rant:

The bike has the BD dual-light mod done, and nothing else. That is the only thing I can think of that might be causing me headaches.

Can anyone point me in the right direction? Anyone with the BD light mod have problems with charging? Could the mod not be installed correctly and draining the battery? The clock stays on all the time, even with the key out, normal????????

Sorry, I'm frustrated...

It's normal for the clock to stay on.

I had a very similar problem - see http://www.600riders.com/forum/gara...-engine-warning-light-after-flat-battery.html (PS - I just saw that you already replied to that thread - sorry to hear that your problem wasn't resolved by the new battery)

I charged the battery using a slow charger and it seems to have solved my problem - after a long ride and a cold overnight, the bike started fine the next day.

This won't help with the problem of not being able to start your bike, but in my case I think the engine warning light was coming on due to the idle speed being too low.

I assume my original problem was because of the heated handgrips that I installed, since they're connected directly to the battery. The instructions say that they'll switch off automatically when the voltage drops below 11 V, but as a test I've disconnected them to see whether there is still a problem after a few days of not riding.

I also have BD's dual headlight mod and it's possible that this is implicated - but it seems hard to believe.

Good luck, I'll keep you posted on how things go with my very similar problem.

Steve

You replaced the battery? Exact same symptoms?

Is that right?

I have the 2004 and the digital clock is on 24/7. The dual headlight mod as I have seen it should not be an issue as it doesn't create any significant draw the system shouldn't be able to handle providing it is operating as it should. What I want to know is (A) if the charging system is operating at spec. IF so, (B) would suggest there is an abnormal draw creating a discharge large enough to drain the battery over time (like a long ride). I would be testing the system for spec and draw under load and no load conditions to determine where the juice is going. Note: I would be doing a load test on that battery to and it wouldn't matter if the battery were new or not.

wrightme43 said:

Is that right?

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No, it's just not right.... Total BS. Driving me nuts..
I have the old battery, and I'm trickle charging it now.

HavBlue said:

What I want to know is (A) if the charging system is operating at spec. IF so, (B) would suggest there is an abnormal draw creating a discharge large enough to drain the battery over time (like a long ride). I would be testing the system for spec and draw under load and no load conditions to determine where the juice is going. Note: I would be doing a load test on that battery to and it wouldn't matter if the battery were new or not.

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How can I test if the charging system is operating at spec?

a voltage meter... could possibly be the stator thats is the major part of the charging system, if you dont know what your doing best to have a shop look at it. dont just go buying electrical parts on a wim they are way too expensive for that and no dealer will let you return them....

No my friend I was asking you a question to help trouble shoot your problem.

The headlights are on a relay. We need to move in a specific order to get to the answer.

I will be glad to help you if you like.

Steve is quite right as trouble shooting requires specific testing as there is a symbiosis between components in the system. Charging a battery is fine but how does that battery hold up under test. Also, a battery that is not up to par will require a good charging system to work harder than it needs to to maintain a charge. This is where load testing comes into play and to be more specific, you can test the cells of a battery individually.

Have you downloaded the FZ manual?

If not, do it, and go to page 8-25 troubleshooting charging problem.

This will allow you to proceed logically and isolate your problem.

I suspect it is something simple, it usually is after mods. You will at least need to pull the inner faring, seat and tank, and get an inexpensive volt/ohm meter.

After you open it up so you can see most of the wiring, look for loose or disconnected connectors. Easy visual stuff first, then start down the troubleshooting list in the manual.

Goodluck

Lewis:Sport:

wrightme43 said:

No my friend I was asking you a question to help trouble shoot your problem.

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Sorry, sarcasm gets lost without tone..

Even with the voltage meter, how can I test the lines when the bike is apart? Doesn't it need to be running in order to check them?

Honestly, I might just take it in. I can handle mechanical, but electrical systems intimidate me...

I guess I'll have a look thought the manual first and see if there is something obvious. If I can't find anything I'll bring her to the dealer. I just hate relying on them, it usually leaves worse off then it goes in.

Unless there is someone local who wouldn't mind taking a look with me.

We can help you man.

Back to the first question.
You replaced the battery with a new battery. The bike continues to behave in exactly the same manner as before?

If this is so. I would like you to take your voltage meter and read across the new battery. It should read 12.7vdc.
If it reads less I would like you to trickle charge it over night and read it in the morning. Please post the exact voltage.

The light system is more than likely not the culprit. The headlamps are on a relay and unless the relay is failing, (sometimes they sorta melt inside and draw hella juice but still sorta work RARE) it is not your issue.

Do you have a alarm system?
Do you turn off and remove the key everytime you park the bike? (this is a dumb question I know, but I see them all the time parked with the lights still on)

Ok in order what is the most likely cause.
Bad battery. Check VDC and if its good, we need to have it load tested. Autozone/Advance such and the like does it for free.
Have you ever load tested a battery before?

It could be a bad ground. This is common. Follow the ground wire from the battery to the frame. Try to twist it on its bolt. Look for a green or white corrosion. If present remove bolt, clean with wire brush, wipe on coke or lemon juice. Wipe on baking soda and then rinse with plain water. Dry and reinstall. This corrosion is a very good sign that a poor ground is your problem if you find it.

Do you have any other electrical accesories? Heated grips. Extra lights, Radar?

You could actually have a bad stator. Again not likely but it could be.

Most likely the new battery was never fully charged.
Next most likely the new battery is bad. It happens pretty often.
Next most likely grounds.

These are assuming the system is not being drained out by leaving on lights or having some accesory that is direct wired to 12v. (not switched)

Tell us about any accesories wired up.

Oh and electricity is cool as hell. Its like water. Its some pretty neat stuff. I dig it, it can be a pain in the butt though like you said.

wrightme43 said:

We can help you man.

Back to the first question.
You replaced the battery with a new battery. The bike continues to behave in exactly the same manner as before?

Yes.

If this is so. I would like you to take your voltage meter and read across the new battery. It should read 12.7vdc.
If it reads less I would like you to trickle charge it over night and read it in the morning. Please post the exact voltage.

Will do.

Do you have a alarm system?
No.

Do you turn off and remove the key everytime you park the bike? (this is a dumb question I know, but I see them all the time parked with the lights still on)
Always.

Autozone/Advance such and the like does it for free.
Cant believe I forgot that!

Have you ever load tested a battery before?
Nope.

It could be a bad ground.
I'll have to check that when I remove the battery.

Do you have any other electrical accesories? Heated grips. Extra lights, Radar?
Nope.

You could actually have a bad stator. Again not likely but it could be.
Ok, dumb question. What's a stator?

Most likely the new battery was never fully charged.
Next most likely the new battery is bad. It happens pretty often.
I did buy the cheaper one, YUASA.

Tell us about any accesories wired up.
None that I can see. Got the bike used and the only mod I found is the BD light mod.

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Thank you! That really gets me pointed in the right direction. I'm going to have to remove the battery and trickle charge it.
Unfortunately, I'm leaving out of town for two weeks tomorrow morning! Seeing as how it's 1AM, I'm not going to take it apart now.
I'll go through the process as soon as I get back. In the meantime, I have a paper copy of the service manual, I'll study the electrical system in it while I'm away and see what else I can find.

Ok good deal. That eliminates alot of stuff. If the wiring harness is stock you are down to just a few things.

The stator is inside the engine cover. Its a bunch of wires insulated from each other with varnish (sorta) and as the engine turns it spins a magnet it crosses the lines (fields) and creates a potential voltage. The rectofier (sp?) makes it into a useful voltage. This is how your battery is charged and what operates the electrical systems when the engine is spinning fast enough.

Like an alternator?

abacall said:

Like an alternator?

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Similar in that they both produce AC voltage which must be converted to DC through the rectifier or it won't work. Unlike a cage, the motorcycles battery powers everything so you can not take the leads off the battery and expect the bike to run where a cage would. Also, the cage alternator will give a full charge from the time it begins turning where the bikes system won't until it hits around 5,000 rpm on most sportbikes.