My local walmart is having a sale on Mobile Full Synthetic Oil...but which one should I get. I am in Los Angles......
Full Synthetic Oil Delima!!!!!!
- Thread starter dev_usc
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If it's for a Yamaha motorcycle none in my opinion. You would want like 20W-50 or 10W-40 at the least for non-synthetic. For full synthetic you want like 15W-50.
These are all for larger engines like cars and trucks not meant for your average 4 stroke street bike. These motor oils can have adverse affects on a motorcycle engine.
That's my two cents.
These are all for larger engines like cars and trucks not meant for your average 4 stroke street bike. These motor oils can have adverse affects on a motorcycle engine.
That's my two cents.
Gcontroller
Junior Member
Check the back of the bottle. There should be a API label that indicates the oils certifications if one of the certifications reads "Energy Conserving" don't use it. The label is called the API Service Symbol Donut it's round and has all the various ratings that oil meets. Energy Conserving oils could lead to clutch slippage when used in wet clutches due friction modifiers placed in the oil. This is the case for not only synthetic oil but all oils.
I recommend Rotella T6 Synthetic 5-40 in the blue bottle. Buy it by the gallon you can get it at Walmart good stuff at a good price. I hope this doesn't start another oil thread..........
Here is a shot of what the API ratings look like on the back of the bottle.
API Motor Oil Service Classifications
I recommend Rotella T6 Synthetic 5-40 in the blue bottle. Buy it by the gallon you can get it at Walmart good stuff at a good price. I hope this doesn't start another oil thread..........
Here is a shot of what the API ratings look like on the back of the bottle.
API Motor Oil Service Classifications
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philosopheriam
aka: Mr. Awesome
The proper Mobil 1 oil for OUR motorcycles is:
Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40
This oil has a JASO-MA certification, which means that it is certified for wet-clutch systems.
Standard full synthetic automotive oils have an energy-conserving additive package that will cause a wet clutch to slip.
Shell Rotella Full Synthetic has a JASO-MA certification, and thus, many people on this forum use it in their bikes.
I'm a fan of the Mobil1 4T 10W-40 because of it's viscosity and availability at most auto parts stores.
Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40
This oil has a JASO-MA certification, which means that it is certified for wet-clutch systems.
Standard full synthetic automotive oils have an energy-conserving additive package that will cause a wet clutch to slip.
Shell Rotella Full Synthetic has a JASO-MA certification, and thus, many people on this forum use it in their bikes.
I'm a fan of the Mobil1 4T 10W-40 because of it's viscosity and availability at most auto parts stores.
None of the oils you showed in the pics will be suitable for wet clutch use. Any automotive oil with "energy conserving" in the API label have friction modifiers. Friction modifiers will cause your clutch to slip. Use any motorcycle labeled oil or pick one of the diesel oils such as the above mentioned Shell Rotella T. Do a search here, there are quite a few oil threads. And I would run a weight close to what is recommended in the owners manual (10w-40, 20w-40, 20w-50, etc.)
04fizzer
Member
You want the Mobil 1 with the gold cap. That one does NOT have the energy conserving label.
RJ2112
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The only thing I will add to this thread is that the Owner's manual does not state that it's acceptable to run motor oil with a base stock thinner than 10W. As a result, I will not run 0w or 5w base stock oil in any machine not rated for that. I would run 15w oils, but I'd take it easy, until the motor reached operating temperature.
My personal opinion is that the protection offered by the 'hot' rating viscosity is not identical, if you are comparing 5w-30 to 10w-30. I don't see how a 0w-30 rated oil could compare, either.
As almost all engine damage occurs in the first 30 seconds of operation, before the oil pump can supply oil to the top end of the motor.... seems to me that the base stock rating is more important, than the hot temp rating.
Tailgate
Senior Member
Do a search for "oil," etc., and you'll find quite a bit about the subject. BTW, you might want to look at WalMart's reasonably-priced Super Tech ST7317 oil filter---it fits the FZ6.
galland1
Junior Member
Rotella T6, Pure One filter. 'nuf sed
philosopheriam
aka: Mr. Awesome
Agreed - this is the same reason I DO NOT use full synthetic Rotella. The owners manual reccomends a base viscosity of 10W to 20W and a hot viscosity of 30 to 50. 10W-40 seems like the happy medium to me...
The first number in oil weights is just a correlation to a specific weight at a given temperature. It has nothing to do with protection at higher temperatures. A 0w-30 is the same weight as a 10w-30 at 100C. If there was any difference in kinematic viscosities they both could not be labled a 30 weight oil. The API has specific ranges of viscosities for a given grade. A xw-30 oil has to be between 9.30-12.49 cSt at 100C.
The 0w oil just flows better when cold, hence providing quicker flow to engine parts after start up. The reason Yamaha does not recommend 0w-xx oils is that they allow use of conventional (non synthetic oils). Conventional oils are not very shear stable when you get larger viscosity spreads, hence the use of viscosity improvers. So in order to keep the oil from shearing out of grade, Yamaha recommends thicker oils. Now synthetics are much more shear stable. So a 5w-40 syn will stay in grade much longer than a conventional oil. Motorcycle gear boxes are very hard on engine oil, and easily destroy viscosity improvers in motor oils.
In modern plain bearing engines, the oil pump provides the oil to the bearings. So in essence, your bearings are spinning in a film of oil, provided by the oil pump. If you reduce that flow too much, now you are running on a boundary layer of lubrication, as oil can not move thorough the passages fast enough (even though pressure may be fine). In this sate of boundary lubrication is where the anti wear additives in the oil stop metal on metal contact. So in this instance, you can go thicker and actually cause engine damage. If you went with a thinner oil (say 5w-20) you drop in pressure but have more oil flowing through the passages, providing oil on oil lubrication. So thicker is not always better!
So, when looking at oil grades, buy the oil that fits your riding conditions. Since most ride during the warmer months, most 10w-xx and 15w-xx oil will perform just fine. If you are riding in 30-40F weather, a 5w-xx oil may suit your conditions better. And of course, always buy oil that is compatible with a wet clutch (for motorcycle use).
Thanks! Nice explanation...I always learn something on this forum. :thumbup:
sxty8goats
Senior Member
Oils do not get thicker when they get hotter. The first number is actually more of a flow rate indicator than a viscosity indicator. Think of it as a "Flows like a 10 weight, protects like a 30 weight.
Again I got to go to the car engine to give honest examples. GTO club (newer 04-06') I've been associated with for years have many people that send their oil out for analysis every oil change. One of the favorite oils of the group, and the oil I use when I can get it, is Mobile 1 0w-40. this is because it is the closest to a true 30w oil at operating temperature that we, as a group, could find yet the 0w rating give it as quick a take-up / start up cycle as you can get.
I use M1 10w-30 as well but that oil is a bit on the light side at temp. Mid way between a 20w and 30w at operating temp.
In the bike I use 10w 40 non-synth. 2 changes a year. Spring and mid summer. She rests for 3 or 4 months a year in the winter.
M1 0w-40 is a great oil!! A must use in pretty much any European car. Castrol Syntec "European Formula" 0w-30 is also a great alternative, I have seen many impressive UOA's on both of these oils. Any way, back on topic...:hijack:
stevesnj
Junior Member
Go to Autozone and get Mobil 1 4t 10-w40, made for our bike. Filter # is M-110
red06
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RJ2112
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What the hey, it's now officially an oil thread.
Feel free to disagree, I am now out of this conversation.The first number in the multi grade rating is the cold temp number (and the actual base stock oil weight).... the second number equates to how it acts, at 100C. How does it get there? By the use of additives. If you start with 5 weight oil, and want it to act like 30 weight at temp..... you have to add stuff to increase the viscosity at temp.
A 10 weight base stock oil has half as much of that extra 'stuff' to get it to act like your chosen relative weight at temp. The stuff is long chain polymers, as I understand it. They essentially start out balled up, and unravel with temp. When the long chains are fully extended, they slow the movement of the liquid they are in. Hence, the impression that there is equivalent viscosity.
I have yet to find anyone who can tell me how thick the oil film formed by 0, 5, 10, or 20 weight oil is, at specific temp and pressure.... and how that compares to each with enough additive to get it to act like, say 40 weight at 100C. I've asked this of SAE engineers. They don't like to answer this one.
The thinner the oil, the less the pumping resistance.... and a minor increase in HP. The thinner the oil, the thinner the film between rotating parts, and bearing surfaces. You feel confident using thinner oil than Yamaha recommends? Bully for you.
Every time someone brings up "I know lots of people who do routine oil analysis".... I find very little actual evidence to support the claim. I've gone so far as to contact a couple of analysis labs, and asked them to pull every sample they've taken from FZ6 motorcycles specifically, and gotten no more than 3 random samples. Hardly statistically relevant. Especially when the samples come from different bikes.
Viscosity tests are insanely simple affairs. Look up what the standard tests consist of. A uniform size sample, and a known diameter tube, at a specific temperature. A stop watch to see how long it takes to run a given length. There's minor variation in the specifics between the 3 I've read up on -- but that is in essence the whole shooting match.
Lab tests for chemical content and spectro analysis of the samples? In parts per million (1% of 1%)? How much variation do you think there is at the refinery? People read far, far too much into these things.
The bottom line is you can spend just as much bench racing oil as any other subject...... with very little value added. Stick with the specs the owner's manual calls out, and you have every bit of protection the warranty calls for.
Change it at the 'long' interval, unless you really do live in a super hot, dusty climate and never warm the motor all the way up.
Your mileage of course, will drastically vary.....
Some of your above posts is based on common misconceptions of the grade system of motor oil weights. You should not think of the oil thinning at temp but basically thickening as it cools. Lets use conventional 5w-30 as an example; The base oil is set to be a 30 weight (or grade) oil, and viscosity improvers are added to help it from thickening as it cools. These viscosity improvers have longer carbon chains, so they resist thickening, but they can still clump together when temperatures get really cold. That and the ratings used for cold and hot temps is on a different scale. So a 5w-30 conventional is actually a 68w-30. Hence why there is so much confusion about oils.What the hey, it's now officially an oil thread.
The first number in the multi grade rating is the cold temp number (and the actual base stock oil weight).... the second number equates to how it acts, at 100C. How does it get there? By the use of additives. If you start with 5 weight oil, and want it to act like 30 weight at temp..... you have to add stuff to increase the viscosity at temp.
A 10 weight base stock oil has half as much of that extra 'stuff' to get it to act like your chosen relative weight at temp. The stuff is long chain polymers, as I understand it. They essentially start out balled up, and unravel with temp. When the long chains are fully extended, they slow the movement of the liquid they are in. Hence, the impression that there is equivalent viscosity.
I have yet to find anyone who can tell me how thick the oil film formed by 0, 5, 10, or 20 weight oil is, at specific temp and pressure.... and how that compares to each with enough additive to get it to act like, say 40 weight at 100C. I've asked this of SAE engineers. They don't like to answer this one.
The thinner the oil, the less the pumping resistance.... and a minor increase in HP. The thinner the oil, the thinner the film between rotating parts, and bearing surfaces. You feel confident using thinner oil than Yamaha recommends? Bully for you.
Every time someone brings up "I know lots of people who do routine oil analysis".... I find very little actual evidence to support the claim. I've gone so far as to contact a couple of analysis labs, and asked them to pull every sample they've taken from FZ6 motorcycles specifically, and gotten no more than 3 random samples. Hardly statistically relevant. Especially when the samples come from different bikes.
Viscosity tests are insanely simple affairs. Look up what the standard tests consist of. A uniform size sample, and a known diameter tube, at a specific temperature. A stop watch to see how long it takes to run a given length. There's minor variation in the specifics between the 3 I've read up on -- but that is in essence the whole shooting match.
Lab tests for chemical content and spectro analysis of the samples? In parts per million (1% of 1%)? How much variation do you think there is at the refinery? People read far, far too much into these things.
The bottom line is you can spend just as much bench racing oil as any other subject...... with very little value added. Stick with the specs the owner's manual calls out, and you have every bit of protection the warranty calls for.
Change it at the 'long' interval, unless you really do live in a super hot, dusty climate and never warm the motor all the way up.
Your mileage of course, will drastically vary.....
A good synthetic oil ( I am going to use a PAO oil as an example) like Castrol Syntec 0w-30. This oil has very little viscosity improvers because the base stock is not a refined oil. The Olefin carbon chains have little alkyl branches on every other chain, this prevents them from lining up in an orderly fashion, hence it resists thickening when cooling off.
So you do not do anything to oil to make it get thicker at temp, you add VI to prevent it from thickening when cooling down, othewise it would be a straight 30wt oil.
The film is the thickness of the bearing clearances. That is why you pump it through bearing passages under pressure. The FZ6 engine is not a splash lube engine, where film strength plays a key role (besides at start up). Oil on oil is as slippery as it gets. In a modern engine, main bearing clearances can be at tight at a few thousandths of an inch. The looser the tolerances means more flow but less pressure, which is why an engine with worn bearings generally have lower oil pressure than a new one. This is why the wives tale started that as an engine ages, you need to run thicker oil. This is true, only if you are trying to compensate for wear. Film strength has nothing to do with oil grade, but the oils additives resistance to shear. This is usually rated at HTHS (high temp, high hear). Most synthetic European spec oils have a HTHS rating of 3.2 or higher in order to pass the ACEA ratings. By comparison a conventional 5w-30 may only have a HTHS of 2.2. So film strength is based on the type of oil you are buying.
There are three states of lubrication: hydrodynamic, mixed film and boundary lubrication.
The first one is basically oil on oil under pressure between two surfaces (elasto-hydrodynamic lubrication,EHL) and is what is happening while your engine is running.
Mixed film is where the oil is squeezed out under pressure. Picture your con rod bearings. At idle not much combustion force is exerted at this low load condition. Now you suddenly open the throttle, and the sudden combustion pressure increases drastically, forcing the oil off the top of the con rod bearing. Now the oils anti wear additives and its shear resistance are protecting you from metal on metal contact. Once the RPM's get up and the oil pump is flowing more oil, this state of lubrication goes away. This is why you never rev the crap out of a cold engine.
Boundary lubrication is where lubrication is dependent on antiwear additives. What happens here, is lubrication can be put under so much pressure, and is momentarily squeezed out to such a point that if oil didn't have any antiwear additives, you would be metal to metal. This is the last line of defense for lubrication to protect your equipment. A common place where you see a lot of high levels of barrier lubricant is in gear lubes. Ever wonder what that rotten smell was? Yep, high levels of zinc, and phosphorus. These are the two most used antiwear wear additives used in oils today.
Used oil analysis can be useful in tracking trends, but you need more than one to see what is going on. I like them, but unless you are racing or trying to push for very extended drains, they are not worth the money.
This does not mean that I condone running a non recommended grade of oil, just that when using a synthetic, a lower winter rating can be utilized without fear of damaging the engine/gearbox. And yes, everyone's mileage will vary...
galland1
Junior Member
Wolfc, now don't start clouding the issue with facts. ;-) Great info.
RJ2112
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