M/C upgrade suggestions

[redFazer]

Yeh sounds to me like the FZ6 fits the bill except for maybe the alternator problem which I would like to hear more about. I have a GPS hooked up was planning on heated grips does that not work out too well? What about if using a trickle charger?

The FZ6 has a small alternator, so there is not a whole lot of excess power to play with. IIRC, there is only 100W of excess capacity. I did some reading about it in this forum.

I use a trickle charger. I had two OEM batteries die on me in the first two years. Eventually I figured out (thanks Argus battery bug) that my 15 mile commute (evening) in stop and go traffic ends up draining the battery too much. I upgraded to a Shorai Li-Iron and that did the trick.

So reading all these messages made me face the fact that I probably should get another FZ6 Most of the bikes that have been listed lack the top end punch that I regularly use. I find liter bikes a tad too powerful. I can't see myself putting that power to actual use. The adventure bikes look perfect in terms of power and electrical - but they are too expensive. If I lived in a city with year round riding, I could probably justify it.

I wish the FZ had another 10 ft lbs of torque, other than that it is perfect for my riding style.

Hmm...decisions !!

 

[dxh24]

Turbocharged fz6? (Lol jk)

But seriously, test ride some bikes, v-stroms and V's (my bike) can be had pretty cheap, and every now and again you can find a tiger 800 for a steal.

SV1000 might be another idea, no idea what the MPG is but Cliff has one and V twins have a bit more torque.

Plus test rides are free! (Sort of, until you fall in love with one lol)

 

[FIZZER6]

SV1000 might be another idea, no idea what the MPG is but Cliff has one and V twins have a bit more torque.

One of my riding buddy's has a 2008 SV1000...it's a V-twin sport bike. The riding position is pretty close to a SuperSport, not nearly as comfy as the FZ6! I was glad to get back on my bike after 10 miles on the SV1000!

 

[dxh24]

One of my riding buddy's has a 2008 SV1000...it's a V-twin sport bike. The riding position is pretty close to a SuperSport, not nearly as comfy as the FZ6! I was glad to get back on my bike after 10 miles on the SV1000!

Sorry shoulda been more specific... There's 2 models- the sv1000 and the SV 1000S, one has the more aggressive stance the other is more sport tourery upright I believe... They did the same thing with the SV650/650S

 

[redFazer]

I am going to test ride a 2011 V-Strom 650 with ABS this weekend. Probably a V-Strom 1000 as well.
The 650 is close to the SV650 in terms of ride. I thought the SV struggled past 90 (it was naked though) when I rode my friends bike. I like to cruise around 105 :ban: Hopefully the 650 will make me happy - it has all the goodies I need for touring.

Fingers crossed !!

 

[gocartone]

Fz1 ftw, you won't regret it. It's only 20 more hp than an Fz8, very similar frame geometry and ergonomics. 2013 suspension is identical to an Fz1. Fz8 just has a little less power but very close

20hp more? ~150hp in the FZ1 vs ~105hp in the FZ8. Speed wise the FZ8 is about identical with the FZ6, just with more torque (and weight). The FZ8 is the FZ6 replacement, not really an upgrade over one. The FZ1 is much faster than either of them.

To the OP, just go test ride a bunch of different bikes in your price range and see which fits best. I would go for the 2006+ FZ1 if I were you and money wasn't a real problem, or buy a cheap FZ6.

 

[Ssky0078]

20hp more? ~150hp in the FZ1 vs ~105hp in the FZ8. Speed wise the FZ8 is about identical with the FZ6, just with more torque (and weight). The FZ8 is the FZ6 replacement, not really an upgrade over one. The FZ1 is much faster than either of them.

To the OP, just go test ride a bunch of different bikes in your price range and see which fits best. I would go for the 2006+ FZ1 if I were you and money wasn't a real problem, or buy a cheap FZ6.

Ok, I was sloppy with my numbers. The Fz8 has just under 100 bwhp and the Fz1 has around 135(130 is the most common I see) bwhp and the Fz6 has a lil over 90 bwhp.

View attachment 47932View attachment 47933View attachment 47934

I own a 2009 Fz1 all stock and I took a demo ride on a 2013 Fz8. I can say that around 2000-8/9000 rpm the feel on both bikes is really close to the same. The Fz1 is going to keep pulling of course as it hits the middle of it's sweet spot and I didn't get to wring that out on the demo ride on the Fz8. I believe the OP is not going for a massive hp high and instead was concerned about fuel mileage. You can get a lot of the thrill on an Fz8 with an additional 5 mpg on average better range on a lot of fuelly's I looked at before.

I would agree with you on the speed of the Fz6 and the Fz8. The Fz8 is slightly faster and it doesn't have to work as hard to achieve that. I did not like how much I had to wring through the gears to get the speed out of the Fz6. The Fz8 seemed to do it more effortlessly.

p.s. I've only seen the R1 with a Dyno chart over 150 and some seriously modded Fz1's get right up to 150.

 

[dxh24]

I am going to test ride a 2011 V-Strom 650 with ABS this weekend. Probably a V-Strom 1000 as well.
The 650 is close to the SV650 in terms of ride. I thought the SV struggled past 90 (it was naked though) when I rode my friends bike. I like to cruise around 105 :ban: Hopefully the 650 will make me happy - it has all the goodies I need for touring.

Fingers crossed !!

Just a note, I believe the wee strom got a facelift in 2012, just something to keep in mind heard it had some ECU problems on some of the newer models, probably worked out by now but worth looking into. (Sorry not trying to make decisions difficult just trying to be as helpful as possible!)

Never had a ride on the big strom but heard good things.

 

[redFazer]

I am hoping a test ride of the 650 V-Strom (set for Saturday) clears things up for me. The guy has the bike loaded with everything I need for my week trip to CO. So that's a big plus.

After my friend lost his leg in a M/C accident last year, I have a gotten a bit cautious. So I am trying to stay away from the liter bikes as much as possible, but man it is so tempting.

Btw thanks to all of you for taking the time to help me out.

 

[Ssky0078]

I am hoping a test ride of the 650 V-Strom (set for Saturday) clears things up for me. The guy has the bike loaded with everything I need for my week trip to CO. So that's a big plus.

After my friend lost his leg in a M/C accident last year, I have a gotten a bit cautious. So I am trying to stay away from the liter bikes as much as possible, but man it is so tempting.

Btw thanks to all of you for taking the time to help me out.

The liter bikes are not scary. The connection from your brain to your right wrist is what's scary. If you have the control then a liter bike is a ton of fun. My Fz1 is pretty much all I've ever wanted in a motorcycle.

I do find on occasion as my skill level increases, my willingness to take risk has increased as well. I still avoid situations where my skill or lack thereof will cause the risk to become an accident. This is something they teach in the Advanced Rider Course - MSF and strongly recommend everyone take it.

 

[Marthy]

Ok, I was sloppy with my numbers. The Fz8 has just under 100 bwhp and the Fz1 has around 135(130 is the most common I see) bwhp and the Fz6 has a lil over 90 bwhp.

View attachment 47932View attachment 47933View attachment 47934

I own a 2009 Fz1 all stock and I took a demo ride on a 2013 Fz8. I can say that around 2000-8/9000 rpm the feel on both bikes is really close to the same. The Fz1 is going to keep pulling of course as it hits the middle of it's sweet spot and I didn't get to wring that out on the demo ride on the Fz8. I believe the OP is not going for a massive hp high and instead was concerned about fuel mileage. You can get a lot of the thrill on an Fz8 with an additional 5 mpg on average better range on a lot of fuelly's I looked at before.

I would agree with you on the speed of the Fz6 and the Fz8. The Fz8 is slightly faster and it doesn't have to work as hard to achieve that. I did not like how much I had to wring through the gears to get the speed out of the Fz6. The Fz8 seemed to do it more effortlessly.

p.s. I've only seen the R1 with a Dyno chart over 150 and some seriously modded Fz1's get right up to 150.

Here's a run of the FZ8 with R1 cams (nickname the R779 mod LOL) That was with the stock exhaust and TB slip-on. Now we put my exhaust on and the bike pull much better. The tune is pretty much done, just need another ride or two to double check the data.

The bike peaked at 107 HP and with the smooth at 5 as about 102-3 WHP with 55 ft.lb of torque with the TB exhaust. But if you look at the graph you can tell the exhaust is restricting the HP on top... Now with the new Marthy Exhaust the mid range did improve right away, even before the tune.

We should get the bike on the dyno next week or so. My buddy is out of town for a couple of days now. I think we can get very close to 110 WHP.

I'm not saying the FZ8 is a better or not bike than the FZ1. Just like the FZ6R, it's built on the cheap end of the scale... but the price tag is interesting.

So if you do the work yourself, you can get the exhaust kit, cams and PCV fro a hair over 1K. That's good for about 20HP. Considering that quite a few FZ1 owner upgrade their suspension for R1's Not sure if it comes into the equation if you compare the bikes. Looks like they fix some of the issue on the 2013 version. On a review they were saying the front end is fine but the rear still need some work.

So yes, if you compare the FZ8 to a FZ1 on paper the FZ1 is a much better bike. But the way I look at it is the bike look sharp (if you like naked bike) and with the R1 cam mod it put the bike within R6 HP with more torque... all that under 11K! (doesn't sound that slow when you look at it this way)

So it all come down to draw the line between what you want, what you like and what you actually need. They are all good bikes if they fit your needs.

That's what I'm working on now... Unless $hit hit the fan in the next few months, I should have a new ride in my garage later this year. Still not sure what yet... so many nice bike! :BLAA:

EDIT: Here's a run of a 2013 FZ8. That's the next project... tuning the Marthy Exhaust for the non-R1 cams. Hoping to get close to 100 WHP.

 

[oysters12]

OK, this alternator issue being discussed probably explains why my 2009 FZ6 has already gone through 3 batteries. I ride it most days to work and have to sit at many traffic lights and it is a short commute in the city ~6 miles with little chance to speed up. Last time in I had my mechanic look at it he said bike is putting out 14v. Is the Shorai lithium battery a good solution for this short battery life problem??

 

[Erci]

The liter bikes are not scary. The connection from your brain to your right wrist is what's scary. If you have the control then a liter bike is a ton of fun. My Fz1 is pretty much all I've ever wanted in a motorcycle.

I do find on occasion as my skill level increases, my willingness to take risk has increased as well. I still avoid situations where my skill or lack thereof will cause the risk to become an accident. This is something they teach in the Advanced Rider Course - MSF and strongly recommend everyone take it.

FZ1 is not scary, I agree. R1, however.. holy crap you better know what you're doing!! Completely different animal! Supersport liter bikes ARE *scary* in that they are completely unforgiving. If you're not super smooth with your right wrist and your cornering technique is only so-so, you're in for a rough ride.

I'm basing my opinion on 30 minutes on R1 and 30 minutes on GSXR 1000. Both make the FZ1 feel SLOW and completely and forgiving.

 

[dxh24]

The street triple isn't a liter bike.... Probably doesn't fit ANY of your criteria either... Just saying though

PS if you have the ability, test ride a Versys too, even if you have no interest in it whatsoever... I always like hearing unbiased comparisons of the two

 

[gocartone]

I'm not saying the FZ8 is a better or not bike than the FZ1. Just like the FZ6R, it's built on the cheap end of the scale... but the price tag is interesting.

So if you do the work yourself, you can get the exhaust kit, cams and PCV fro a hair over 1K. That's good for about 20HP. Considering that quite a few FZ1 owner upgrade their suspension for R1's Not sure if it comes into the equation if you compare the bikes. Looks like they fix some of the issue on the 2013 version. On a review they were saying the front end is fine but the rear still need some work.

So yes, if you compare the FZ8 to a FZ1 on paper the FZ1 is a much better bike. But the way I look at it is the bike look sharp (if you like naked bike) and with the R1 cam mod it put the bike within R6 HP with more torque... all that under 11K! (doesn't sound that slow when you look at it this way)

All those mods push an FZ8 to the same price as an FZ1, and your left with a bike that is still worse in every way(and you only gained 10hp, nowhere near 20hp). Also, the same mods on an FZ6 would yield the same amount of horsepower (for under $1000 for the mods, not $1500+ like the FZ8), and you can pick one of them up for half what a used FZ8 is going for. IDK, I just don't see the point in that bike. It should have come with 15-20 more horsepower from the factory.

 

[Marthy]

All those mods push an FZ8 to the same price as an FZ1, and your left with a bike that is still worse in every way(and you only gained 10hp, nowhere near 20hp). Also, the same mods on an FZ6 would yield the same amount of horsepower (for under $1000 for the mods, not $1500+ like the FZ8), and you can pick one of them up for half what a used FZ8 is going for. IDK, I just don't see the point in that bike. It should have come with 15-20 more horsepower from the factory.

I understand what you mean, but the point is... Yamaha don't sell FZ6 anymore. So just like we did when we bought our bike... We either couldn't afford a FZ1 or the power of a middle range bike was enough for our need.

I bare with you here they should have never got rid of the FZ6 and build a real begging bike instead of a heavy under power FZ6R. But it is what it is I guess.

There was no more FZ6 on the floor when I bough mine. I kind of dig the under tail exhaust a lot.

Oh... about the max HP on the FZ8... we're not done yet! :BLAA: Still have few thing to tune... but getting close.

I'm not preaching for one bike or the other. There's a market for the FZ8 just as same there was one for the FZ6 back in 2009. The nice and clean FZ6 are getting hard to find... I'm personally not a big fan of used bike... unless I know where it comes from.

 

[Ssky0078]

I chose my Fz1 because I got 30-35 more hp with stock better suspension for less than any Fz8's were going for. It was 2 years older but the miles were the same when I was in the market.

If you really like the naked look the Euro Naked Headlight conversion is actually pretty easy and can be done for around $700. So the same if not less than an exhaust, PC, Dynotune, R1 cams, etc.

Like ERCI said the Fz1 is actually pretty forgiving. The Ninja 1000 with its low end torque was less forgiving when I took a demo ride on it.

 

[redFazer]

Its time for an update:

2011 V-Strom 650:
I rode this yesterday evening. Nice and tall. Liked the ergonomics, seat height etc.(I am 6 ft, 205). The bike had only 800 miles on it and had suzuki OEM side cases and a bags connection tank bag (with a 12V outlet inside). But the ride itself was disappointing. It seemed under powered above 50 mph and seemed to hesitate a lot. It could be the bike as I think the FI was not working smoothly. Probably due to a faulty battery as the guy had to use a battery starter to start up the bike. It was also extremely twitchy. If I was constantly accelerating the bike did ok, but if I held it steady at 5k rpm above the 3rd gear it felt like the engine was gasping. The friction zone on the clutch made the FZ6 feel like a automatic honda civic It made low speed maneuvers tricky. But I did like how it handled corners and tight turns in a parking lot. Once I got it above 20 it seemed very smooth.
Overall very disappointing, but I was still thinking it might be worth a shot. The engine specs were 66hp and 44 ft lbs torque.

2008 V-Strom 1000:
I called this guy after testing the 650. I was reluctant to move up to a liter bike, but I wanted to at least try it out. So I went in this morning. Here is the description from the ad (Givi top case (stop light) and side cases, Givi crush bars, skid plate, center stand, v-stream windshield, original windshield, raised bar, denali fog lights, heated grips, new tires last fall).

The ride was top notch. It has 101hp and 74 ft lbs torque. I got the FZ feel at higher speed and the twin torque under 50. The clutch seemed just right (more forgiving than the FZ) and was a lot less work. I was not able to do that many low speed turns - but I felt very confident with how it leaned in. I think I found my next ride.:rockon:

I have put in a deposit with the owner and wanted a day to think it over. The price is $6600. You guys reckon that is a good value for a bike with 9k miles and good condition?

 

[redFazer]

The street triple isn't a liter bike.... Probably doesn't fit ANY of your criteria either... Just saying though

PS if you have the ability, test ride a Versys too, even if you have no interest in it whatsoever... I always like hearing unbiased comparisons of the two

I am planning on a test ride of a 2010 versys, just for the hell of it. Probably next weekend.

 

[redFazer]

OK, this alternator issue being discussed probably explains why my 2009 FZ6 has already gone through 3 batteries. I ride it most days to work and have to sit at many traffic lights and it is a short commute in the city ~6 miles with little chance to speed up. Last time in I had my mechanic look at it he said bike is putting out 14v. Is the Shorai lithium battery a good solution for this short battery life problem??

Here are my thoughts on this issue and how I got around it

The FZ has about 100W to spare (IIRC) when everything is stock. If you do city commuting and stop more than you ride - then you are discharging the battery more than you charge. At 1800rpm it produces enough power to charge the bike. What really makes it worse is the radiator fan. The fan itself does not draw a lot. But if it comes on, it means that your bike is running hot and you are stopped (or going very slow) a lot. The OEM battery starts sulphating and its overall capacity keeps going down every time you ride. On top of it, it degrades enough to not produce enough juice to start the bike within a few months of commuting.

I got a Argus battery bug to keep an eye on the power output. I got a shorai battery as it has a higher capacity and a very high starting output (I think they call it CCA, but I am just typing this from memory). I also realized that the biggest issue was the headlights, especially in the evenings. So I started unplugging the headlights and lane filtering. This combination fixed all the issues. Make sure you keep the bike on a trickle charger if you are not riding for more than a week.