Faulty head steering bearings?

[muryn]

Hi, hope someone can provide any help or just an idea what might be wrong...


FZ6 2007, ca 13k miles on the clock, recently serviced by a local mechanic + installed new tyres etc.

For the first two weeks after the service bike was like new. FZ6 was more responvie, steering felt like flying (in a good/smoth way) everything was spot on -> I was quite pleased with the service.

Unfortunately latelly have noticed some very annoying problem with the bike (just after maybe 600 miles).

The problem is noticeable when turning at low speed either way. It feels like there is something strange with steering at low speeds.
When I apply a slight amount of pressure on the bars and want to turn gently the steering wheel goes rapidly all the way to full lock position by itself. I have to use some resistance to stop it. At first I thought it is in my head but now... Im sure its not ;/



Few words worth mentioning (have checked a lot of forums about the FZ issue with the head bearings):
- tyre pressure is fine
- tried to adjust the suspension but it doesnt make any difference, problem is still there
- steering head bearing are stock/original, have been inspected + greased during the last service (there were no sign of corrosion/wear etc). Also have checked if there is any movement in the head bearing by putting the bike on the centre stand but everything seems smooth and there are no loose spots at all
- steering wheel moves frelly, no cables are blocking the way


Does it sound like I should invest in some new head steering bearing?


Any advices?

thanks

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Sounds like you have covered about everything.... I have to doubt you need new steering head bearings being they were serviced and at 13,000 miles, they should be fine.

The only thing I can think of is to double check all the bolts, especially on the front end.

You stated there wasn't any play / looseness in the forks (pulling pushing while on the centerstand). The steering head bearings may have loosened up slightly. There's two nuts (nuts with notches in them) under the triple clamp. Loosen up the top triple hold down bolt (support the bike first under the header).

Your "shock adjuster tool" should fit both nuts. The two nuts should be locked together and a flat "washer" with a tab to prevent them from loosening.

Bend up the "washer tab" and check the tightness of the lowest nut. If its loose, that may very well be your issue.

Yamaha (page 3-27, factory manual), wants the tension set at 200-500g at a 90 degree angle right between the grip and bar weight (basically a slight amount of drag, with NO BINDING)

I'll send you a PM re the specific pic's. Got the PDF here, once its open, click again to enlarge it.

 

[aclayonb]

Had the complete opposite issue the other day. Near as I can tell, the bike didn't want to lean because the handlebars didn't want to turn.

Check the bearings and check the upper ring. I've never known a modern mechanic to be thorough. These kids that see the technical school commercial with the guy working on bikes.... let's just say they are parts-swappers, not mechanics.

In my experience, it's always the last thing you messed with - and you stated that the steering head bearing was greased by the local guy.

I recommend doing it yourself and judging by FJR's post, I'd say he does too. At least if you do it, you'll know that it's done right or that YOU f***ed it up. Either way, you'll feel better about it - even if it means that you do some impromptu landscaping in a little old ladies yard.

 

[iSteve]

Are you sure it's not just the new tires. I noticed when I switched to PR 2's that the steering drops into corners much quicker especially at low speeds.

 

[aclayonb]

Are you sure it's not just the new tires. I noticed when I switched to PR 2's that the steering drops into corners much quicker especially at low speeds.

+1. Forgot about this. How were your last tires? Mine are almost totally flat for a two inch wide patch and it definitely changes the way the bike handles curves.

 

[muryn]

About the tyres... Before I have been using the old stock ones bt020 but recently they become a bit flat (after 13k miles) so decided to get a new one - metzeler z6 tyres...

After collecting the bike (after service) it was impresively easy/smooth and responsive to handle - better then before.

Since that time I had a chance to go for a short weekend trip and everything was as it supposed to be (done around 600 miles)

And bang... one day it feels just completely different.


Few days ago came back to my mechanic and he checked the bearing again by checking the loosenes/any sort of movements but he was dead sure there is nothing wrong with the bearing as he checked it before (putted some grease) and the steering wheel moved without any issues - showed me also few pics when dismounted the whole thing.

He was kind of pointing that maybe its because of the tyres - but again, after 2 weeks of using the tyres they just started to play silly games with me? WTF, am I going mental...

Today have given my bike to test by my mate. He wasnt extemely helpful... He couldnt spot anything wrong with it. He rides sportsbikes and for him upright position and the way of steering seems a bit different... but again he couldnt say anything bad - I felt dissapoiinted in a way lol...

and Im sure its not in my head as... after coming back from his place, have stopped on one of the parking places and tested it by myself...

1st gear, speed 5 miles/h, going slowly in straight line... little bit of pressure on the left/right handlebar and the steering wheel wants to go all the way to one side... I had to push it in opposite direction to stop the steering wheel doing what it wants...

Will try to get some another front tyre (maybe even 2nd hand) and try to replace it to see if it affects turning. Will see how it goes...

Anoyinng as *&^%...


thanks again for all of the above...

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Is there any slight drag on the steering (as shown in the diagram I posted)?

Just for S&G's, I just checked the front end of my 07 with it raised JUST OFF the FLOOR.

(16,000 miles, NEVER serviced, never adjusted).

The handle bars, when turned slightly (even halfways turned((actually-all the time)), in either direction and left alone, STAY in that position.

They DO NOT tilt back to either stop when left. They turn very easily, no binding, no looseness, (no issues either)..

Can you lift your bike up as before as before and see if the steering "falls" back to the steering lock on its own.

*If it does, it would indicate to me the steering nuts (triple tree) are adjusted with NOT enough drag (again as posted above Yamaha manual)


Just as a side note, going slow in a parking lot, the bikes going to be very quick to turn the steering. Especially with a new tire that's nice and round (less surface area than the worn out tire that has a flat, much larger footprint going dead slow).

 

[aclayonb]

Yeah, what he said.... ^^^

Or, the bearing is just worn and no amount of grease will put the missing metal back.

Or, there should be two bearings on that thing as well, top and bottom. Did he service both? Did he loosen the triple tree(s) when he torqued the top nut? Reference my previous statement about doing it yourself.

If all else fails and it's not likely to kill you, I'd give it about 2k miles and see what it does.

 

[muryn]

Here we are back again ;/

Due to work commitments I haven't managed to visit my local mechanic and even reply in here :spank:

anyway about the steering wheel, no change whatsoever... it still feels quite "clumsy" when it comes to steering... have made a small trip from Uk to Amsterdam, during one weekend - made around 1 k miles... it is rideable but feels the same before - ****tty...

@TownsendsFJR1300 the handle bar turns very easily, no binding, no looseness, and it doesnt fall back to the steering lock on its own so it seams fine...


anyway, have decided that i will change the head stearing bearing soon or later from the stock ones for the "AllBalls", as maybe during few days when it was raining something happened to the stock ones - dunno...

But now other "funny" thing happened... i tried to start my fz6 few days ago... and she will... but instantly you can notice irregural idle, it goes up and down until it will stall... when I change the gear and dont rev a bit more, it stalls... really strange...

I have checked the TPS topic on this forum and seems like she's having faulty TPS symptoms... I will try to post some video tomorrow so maybe someone could advice...


Have checked the diagnostic mode on it too and:

01 throttle position: closed was fine i think it was 16 or 17 but when open, it was 94-95 -> so below the specs as it should be 97-100

is the above result good enough to say the TPS faulty or it can be a matter of adjusting it?

09 Also battery voltage shows 11.6 (should be more than 12?)


FZ6 lately is driving me mad... ;/

I feel like getting divorce but still want to enjoy moments together

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Here we are back again ;/

Due to work commitments I haven't managed to visit my local mechanic and even reply in here :spank:

anyway about the steering wheel, no change whatsoever... it still feels quite "clumsy" when it comes to steering... have made a small trip from Uk to Amsterdam, during one weekend - made around 1 k miles... it is rideable but feels the same before - ****tty...

@TownsendsFJR1300 the handle bar turns very easily, no binding, no looseness, and it doesnt fall back to the steering lock on its own so it seams fine...


anyway, have decided that i will change the head stearing bearing soon or later from the stock ones for the "AllBalls", as maybe during few days when it was raining something happened to the stock ones - dunno...

But now other "funny" thing happened... i tried to start my fz6 few days ago... and she will... but instantly you can notice irregural idle, it goes up and down until it will stall... when I change the gear and dont rev a bit more, it stalls... really strange...

I have checked the TPS topic on this forum and seems like she's having faulty TPS symptoms... I will try to post some video tomorrow so maybe someone could advice...


Have checked the diagnostic mode on it too and:

01 throttle position: closed was fine i think it was 16 or 17 but when open, it was 94-95 -> so below the specs as it should be 97-100

is the above result good enough to say the TPS faulty or it can be a matter of adjusting it?

09 Also battery voltage shows 11.6 (should be more than 12?)


FZ6 lately is driving me mad... ;/

I feel like getting divorce but still want to enjoy moments together

Re the battery. That low a voltage, its 25-50% charged and NEEDS charging badly. (Is it over 3 years old?) Fully charged should be about 12.8 volts. Running, the voltage should be close to 14 volts @5,000 RPM's

Low battery voltage will cause all kinds of issues. If there's not enough power, the ECU can't function fully, and it affects the entire bikes operating systems(fuel, ignition, etc).

Trickle charge (1 amp or less) until fully charged, (probably 24 hours PLUS, -try and use an automatic charger), then get it load tested at any automotive store, Walmart, etc to make sure its healthy.

I would do that before anything else and get the basics covered first..

A fully charged, GOOD battery, should make a significant difference.



Re the head bearings.

All Balls bearings will give more actual contact surface area and can't hurt.

I think its very possible, with the new tires, WITHOUT the flat, worn edge is of course rounder and has LESS contact area riding straight. The old, worn tires, with the flat center, had more surface area on the road. New shoes, always make a considerably difference. You don't realize how bad the old was until you have NEW tires installed.. In my experiance, a new and/or different tire makes for a VERY DIFFERENT FEEL of the bike just by itself...

 

[yamihoe]

I would like to thank you for doing a search before posting!!!
doing your homework is always appreciated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

+1 on what Scott said.

just out of curiosity what drop are your forks through the trees?

 

[muryn]

small update, had a bit of time today...

dg mode, throttle position, closed the same result as last time=19 -> within spec, but open throttle is 98 now - it went up since last check (from 95 to 98)...

about battery - it is still the factory one so it is around 5 years old...

I have noticed day after i recharged it it was around 12.1V, but the day after voltage dropped to around 11.9V (shown in dg mode)

...bike starts as it should but still might give a try with the new battery...

pls check few videos in 1 clip on youtube showing how my bike behaves now (maybe reason behind all of it, its rain (?), as i left bike outside for 2 nights and since that time it acts like that...)

any suggestions?


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J944VBtsBsA]FZ6 issue - YouTube[/ame]

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

You need a NEW BATTERY... Its WAY OVERDUE and still isn't at 100%

Thats why your having electrical gremlins and the bike doesn't run right. It needs a GOOD BATTERY. Until then, your chasing your tail around....


BTW, I couldn't get the video to play...

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Now that the video was seen, a couple of questions and comments...

Initially, there was BUNCH of smoke coming out of the exhaust. Do you know if it was white or blueish, (it was real chilly outside, obviously the moisture wouuld allow it to smoke alot with water vapor). It did appear to be blue (oil, but I can't tell for certain). Are you going thru any oil (ie burning/leaking?)

Its obviously misfiring a bunch.

Towards the end, when you moved the rear wheel, you got it to act up. Cliff, (Motogiro), addressed the SAME issue just a couple of times, with another bike. Something about crossed signals (from maybe the speed sensor and the ECU?)

Do a search or PM Motogiro.


*BTW, your posted battery voltage, as noted above is low, but your issue, I believe may be something else. Can you jump your battery to a GOOD, 12 volt car battery (car NOT RUNNING) and see how it behaves?

I would also get that battery load tested, just to rule it out as good or bad (and replace as necessary). As noted above, the bike doesn't like to run right with a low battery (thus, try jumping it)..

Please post what you come up with and good luck.

 

[Motogiro]

small update, had a bit of time today...

dg mode, throttle position, closed the same result as last time=19 -> within spec, but open throttle is 98 now - it went up since last check (from 95 to 98)...

about battery - it is still the factory one so it is around 5 years old...

I have noticed day after i recharged it it was around 12.1V, but the day after voltage dropped to around 11.9V (shown in dg mode)

...bike starts as it should but still might give a try with the new battery...

pls check few videos in 1 clip on youtube showing how my bike behaves now (maybe reason behind all of it, its rain (?), as i left bike outside for 2 nights and since that time it acts like that...)

any suggestions?


FZ6 issue - YouTube

I've seen this anomaly 2 times before on the forum. I believe both the bikes were in the UK.

What is happening is there is small signal crosstalk between the speed sensor and the TPS signal. This is probably caused by salt contamination on the plug at the ECU and/or any plug that these signal wires are common to. When you add salt to any moisture it becomes pretty conductive. So if there is a light film on salt on any of these plugs and then there is moisture the small signals that the ECU must use for fuel management will be incorrect.

Since all of these signals are read by the ECU I would start at the ECU.

Disconnect the negative battery lead and put it where it can't make contact with the negative battery terminal while yo are working.

Pull the ECU plug.

Blow compressed air on both sides of the plug to remove as much loose debris from the plug as possible.

Blow compressed air on the ECU connector pins to remove any dry residual salt at the ECU connector.

Inspect plug and ECU connector pins for any damage or corrosion.

If plug and connector look good rinse the plug ,Not the ECU connector, with (preferably distilled) water.

Blow the plug assembly completely dry with compressed air.

Apply a film of dielectric grease to connector to help keep future contaminates out.

Plug in the ECU and reconnect negative battery lead.

This same procedure can be used to clean any plugs on the bike.

Contrary to the belief of some, water works best to clean salt contaminates from the plugs because the salt is soluble to water as a vehicle to carry it away as long as you dry it off with compressed air. I don't recommend any oil or petroleum product to remove the salt contaminates and in fact rinsing with a petroleum product may help bond the salt contaminate to the plug.

Try this and let us know if this helps.

Good video! Special thanks to Scott for helping out on these and many other issues!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Thanks Cliff,

saving it to my lap top for future reference...

Scott :thumbup: