Electrical issue - Display dies when I hit start

[azoton]

Pulled the bike out to sync the throttle bodies today. Turned key to on position.... gauges lit up and I thumbed it to ON and hit the starter button and "CLICK" Dead. Display went blank. Nothing - no clock - totally blank??

I checked the battery. It's reading 12.5volts so it's not the battery.

About 1/2 hour later I turned the key to ON again (just in case) and it all lit up again. Ready to go. Hit start and "CLICK" - dead again. Nothing.

I'm glad this is happening today cause I need to get to work tomorrow on this thing if possible.

Anyone have any insight? Bad starter relay? Guess I better start looking for a schematic.... ah, google here I come.

 

[Boneman]

Wow, haven't heard of that one before. Even when the bike is OFF, the display still shows the time - so it still gets power. If it's dying when you start the bike, it almost sounds like a short of some sort. Basically the display should never loose all power at anytime.

Perhaps give the battery a full charge/top up? I believe it should be putting out closer to 14VDC. One possiblility is that the battery is dying and when it gets a max amp draw from the starter, it just craps out. With no load (no starter), it settles at 12.5VDC. Just a thought.


A few questions for ya to help further diagnose the issue:

- When it goes totally dead, how long untill the clock comes back to life? Or does it come back when you turn the bike back off?

- Does your bike still start and run?

- Did this just start happening after riding in the rain? Did you do or change anything on the bike (wiring, mods?)

 

[Mattberkshire]

Check it's not the starter button itself. Mine went from a nice cick to kind of spongy. At this point it would not start properly. I posted it on here and a couple of people said this had happened to theirs but that it started OK afterwards. I tried mine the next morning and it did, and still starts, but you have to push the button a little harder now.

 

[azoton]

Thanks for quick replies. Starter button feels nice and crisp. What is really bugging me is power comes back after about 1/2 hour. There is a very audible "CLICK" from the electrical component mounted to the top of the battery cover when I hit the starter button.

Perhaps give the battery a full charge/top up? I believe it should be putting out closer to 14VDC. One possiblility is that the battery is dying and when it gets a max amp draw from the starter, it just craps out. With no load (no starter), it settles at 12.5VDC. Just a thought.

Battery is only 6 months old... but gonna hook it up to a car battery to see if it starts - what you say makes sense.

A few questions for ya to help further diagnose the issue:

- When it goes totally dead, how long untill the clock comes back to life? Or does it come back when you turn the bike back off?

About 1/2 hour

- Does your bike still start and run?

No

- Did this just start happening after riding in the rain? Did you do or change anything on the bike (wiring, mods?)

I've been riding in the rain for weeks!! We just had a big storm over the weekend.

 

[Boneman]

Well if your bike wont start AND a display that is supposed to be on all the time, goes out, to me that points to the battery! Because even if the starter relay failed (high current), the display is on another circuit (low current) and shouldn't be affected.

I would try a new battery or get your exisiting one tested and charged. It my be putting out weak voltage and low current draw - which would cause your bike to not start.

Think of it like a regular AA battery you have in your remote control. If it's almost dead and you put a meter on it, it would probably read a decent voltage of 1.3 (1.5 new), but the second you put a load on that battery, the voltage would bottom out instantly. I think this is what's happening with your battery.

 

[azoton]

Very wierd.

Same symptom with the car battery.

I'm assuming the component on top of the battery cover is the starter solenoid. There are two 30amp fuses on it. I cleaned the connector and two fuses (although they didn't look like they needed it) put it back together and it started.

 

[Boneman]

Strange. Got wet possibly or a loose connection?

So is everything working now?

 

[azoton]

Strange. Got wet possibly or a loose connection?

So is everything working now?

Yeah. It's all working. I ride the thing rain or shine and it's been raining like crazy here so maybe. Thanks for your input. Much appreciated.

 

[Boneman]

Anytime! Glad you got it all working! Perhaps mention this to your mechanic/dealer next time you drop it off for service.

 

[bcityroller]

Glad it's working - symptoms sound very much like what I had when I had a low battery but not completely dead. I left the lights on for about 45 min in the driveway, realized it but was happy to see the display looked normal. When I tried to start it I got a click and the display went blank. After an hour of sitting it improved to a couple of cranks before the click and no display. Jumped the battery, bike started right away and has been fine since.

 

[sportrider]

I'm late to this one, it sounds like a bad ground.

 

[HavBlue]

I'm late to this one, it sounds like a bad ground.

Agreed. The posted battery voltage would indicate a close to full charge (12.5 volts) and the cluster does function but it doesn't take any load to operate the cluster so the ground is sufficient for that purpose alone. It is not however sufficient enough to support the load requirements of the start cycle hence the reason things go blank when the start button is depressed. Chances are the main chassis ground needs to be cleaned and re-torqued. I would also use some dielectric grease when doing so as this will prevent corrosion and future failures of the same type....

 

[Fred]

Agreed. The posted battery voltage would indicate a close to full charge (12.5 volts)

I agree that it's a connection issue. But I'm chiming in to correct a false belief about batteries.

12.6 volts does indicate a charged battery, but it doesn't necessarily indicate a good battery. When a battery fails, the normal failure mode is for it to still indicate 12.6 volts or better, but to lose amperage capacity. Meaning that the second you throw a load onto the battery, voltage will drop down to 0-3 volts. Working for a year at Autozone, I saw hundreds of batteries that failed this way.

So when you have a problem like this one, watch the battery voltage both with the bike off, and while cranking. If the voltage drops when you crank, it's the battery. If the voltage doesn't drop, you have a bad connection somewhere.

Fred

 

[HavBlue]

I agree that it's a connection issue. But I'm chiming in to correct a false belief about batteries.

12.6 volts does indicate a charged battery, but it doesn't necessarily indicate a good battery. When a battery fails, the normal failure mode is for it to still indicate 12.6 volts or better, but to lose amperage capacity. Meaning that the second you throw a load onto the battery, voltage will drop down to 0-3 volts. Working for a year at Autozone, I saw hundreds of batteries that failed this way.

So when you have a problem like this one, watch the battery voltage both with the bike off, and while cranking. If the voltage drops when you crank, it's the battery. If the voltage doesn't drop, you have a bad connection somewhere.

Fred

WOAH!!!! Just because the voltage drops doesn't necessarily mean it's the battery. Each electrical item on that bike has a load capacity and that circuit is designed to draw a specific amperage when in use; those circuits are rated. A fully charged battery can and will drop significantly if the starter is old and failing. Rule of thumb is 10 volts. This meaning that if that battery indicates a full charge and the starter is engaged, if the fully charged battery drops below 10 volts their are two steps, first pull a load test on the battery to the specific load and time; this is determined by the manufacturer. If the battery checks out, then go to Autozone or some other parts store and find a starter Typically, a battery that has a weak cell or is sulfating will not indicate a full state of charge for any length of time (read as less than an hour after being removed from the charger).

 

[Fred]

I don't disagree with any of that. What I meant to point out was that putting a multimeter on the battery and reading 12.6 volts does not mean your battery is good. You've got to watch what it does while under a load.

Yeah, it's normal for the to voltage drop to around 10 when cranking. I should have said that in my first post, it was a little unclear.

If it drops far below that, then you have a battery problem.

Hopefully that's clearer.

Fred

 

[HavBlue]

I don't disagree with any of that. What I meant to point out was that putting a multimeter on the battery and reading 12.6 volts does not mean your battery is good. You've got to watch what it does while under a load.

Yeah, it's normal for the to voltage drop to around 10 when cranking. I should have said that in my first post, it was a little unclear.

If it drops far below that, then you have a battery problem.

Hopefully that's clearer.

Fred

Much better....