I say "no way" to the bail out!

Oscar54 said:
Please Stop it Wrightme43!

The privatization of Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac was the doing of the Free Market Conservatives not the Liberals. And once they were privatized they began to act like typical preditory corporations.

Dodd and Frank pushed to eliminate \"Red Lining\" in lower income neighborhoods and to keep in tact regulations important to the \"Community Reinvestment Act\". Nothing they did held a gun to these guys heads at Goldman Sacks, Bear Sterns, Leighman Brothers or any of these other failing banks to make bad loans to unqualified barrowers and speculators. Or to create these BS sausage mortgage securities that apparently are so complex no-one has any idea how to value them so no-one wants to buy them, which dried up the market and made them affectively worthless. Thus precipitating these companies bankruptcies.

This situation is a direct result of the Gramm, Leach, Bliley (All Republicans) Act that repealed the Glass-Steagall act in 1999 that kept banking, security trading and insurance activities from being performed by one company. Glass-Steagall was put in place back in the 1930's after the last bunch of Conservative Free Marketers crashed the financial system.

I know that the talking heads on the Right always want to blame the poor and uneducated for out foxing the Ivy League Wall Streeters at the own game when their ponzy schemes colapse and try to hand us the bill, but the facts are that the \"Free Marketers\" have pretty much gotten everything they have wanted for the last 28 years and here we are!
Click to expand...


Feel like busting out with some facts? LOL LOL

I have plenty to back up my position. I promise.
Not fluff pieces, actual facts.
Wanna talk about redlining nieghborhoods?
Lets talk about ACORN and NACA.
I will be repectful, but I am just tired of the democrats pooping in the corner and blaming it on the dog.
Lets talk about giving loans to people that cant pay, moving them out of the "redlined nieghborhoods" and into nieghborhoods they cant afford, not maintaining the houses, forclosing said house, and bringing the value of all the other house in the new nieghborhood down.

Hows about we talk about Gorelick and Frank?
I am against the bailout as well. I would rather eat soup sandwiches for two years, and have a natural recovery.

Greenspan did everything he could. He was trying to drive a supertanker up the mississippi in the dark, with idiots grabbing the wheel and then saying look what you made us do.

I am not playing. I want people to understand exactly what caused this, how it happened, and why it happened.
I will not pull any punches on stupid crap. If some doesnt like Bush thats fine. Not a problem at all. Hell I dont really like him. Just get the facts straight and blame the right people.
Thats all I want.
 
It's true that I am 100% sure (but then again I don't think anyone else is) of the repercussions of our government's $700-billion bailout; on the other hand, I don't know what kind of pickle our economy would be in if we simply let the banking institutions go down under. I can say that I believe in the "invisible hand" and that the government should not intervene in the "free market" economies. As far as I am concerned, this bailout is yet one more step closer to Socialism. We already have the Patriot Act in effect, government intervention in the free market; what's next? :eek:
 
i havent read all the above because i dont have time for it right now. but if congress is so powerful and we knew all this was going to happen from years back, why cant they they round up these ceo's nail them for not upholding their fiduciary obligation. they knew the consequences. take the billions out of their pockets, make them broke, save the companies and help us all.

if congress can fight to take the money out of the public then they sure as hell can fight these guys. it was them looking out for their own best interest in making millions and billions in THEIR pockets, not the companies. its amazing to see struggling companies running in the red when the CEO,COO,CFO make so much money a company could prosper if they werent so stupid.

end rant.
 
$700 billion bailout no way! That equals about $2333 per person in the united states there are about 300 million people in the united states. If the goverment gives each person a million dollars it will save 400 billion dallars and everybody can pay their debt off. On the other hand if we let them go under it is just like everyother company in the united states to go under, they just dissapear. If we do have a bailout the money from that we will have to barrow from china. What will that do to the dollar? The value will go down on the dollar even more, we will see prices on stuff go even higher(gas). Which more people will not be able to afford what they have and cant afford to get ahead. That will be like a domino affect and more of this will happen. Let them go under if they didnt have billion dollar salaries they wouldnt have to worry about it now.
 
I'd just like to say that Ameica is not a free market, it's a mixed market or economy with a trend towards socialism. Yes, a trend towards socialism that has been growing stronger over the past 65+ years or more. You can learn that in any economics class.

A free market has never been allowed to happen because someone always gets some sort of power over people, and gets their sticky little fingers into everyone's money and business. And people go along with it.

So when we're talking about today, it is almost a travesty to say "in this free market", "free market conservatives" when referencing the republicans of ANY time period, or anything else relating with the times we live in today with a "free market" unless describing how we don't have a free market. It would be more appropriate to say in todays "mixed market" or "limited market".

Oh and as a personal bailout plan, I'd recommend investing heavily in precious metals if you can afford it. If I had enough money to invest right now, I would.
 
Even with 3 degrees I don't really know what to think. I'm betting the top economic experts don't either, and they're not even the ones voting on this disaster. I'm a few years away from retirement, I'd built an adequate nest egg, and this situation scares the **** out of me.
The first Presidential debate starts in about an hour; please folks, this one's an important one.
I don't care if you're a Republican or a Democrat, are any of you joining me in voting against "incumbents"?
 
Oh, and Washington Mutual just went bankrupt today. It's new CEO, on the job for just over three weeks, gets how many hundreds of millions severance package??? :Flip:
 
Is the economy as bad as they say really? Or is it all media driven madness.. kinda like the random shortages of oil.. that don't exist. Personally, in my area of the US the economy seems to be fine. People are still buying big screen tv's, computers, random crap, and driving hummers and big trucks everyday. Are people being a bit smarter on how they spend with the volatile gas prices? Yeap, but it's not anything extreme. Are the poor getting poorer and the rich getting richer? Of course, that's the way of the economy isn't it? hahah.

If a business fails due to ****ty management let it die like the dead end evolutionary tree it is. If you can't plan your expenses properly and get in over your head, than you should go down due to ****ty management as well. Just my opinion I guess.

Oh that'd be a no to the bail out. They'll just have to do it again eventually if they do.
 
I agree with other members, the CEO's along with the high paying Executives need to take the fall. They belong in the poor house along with most of us. If not the poorhouse, then they need to be in the Big House, prison. I heard they were cooking the books too.

It's another Enron but this time the government is thinking of bailing them out? If they do get bailed out, these Executives need to suffer and pony up. Yup, their 2nd and 3rd home in Aspen, and Malibu and their G5's need to dissapear and they need to live out on the streets.

Someone said this could be the Perfect Financial Storm. 700 Billion bailout, Iraq War, and current economy.

Washington Mutual going belly up, and one of the nation's largest car dealership Bill Heard going belly up, what's next?

Kind of embarassing for one of the leading nations in this world having to go through something like this. We maynot be as all mighty as everyone thinks. I also heard the illegals are heading back to Mexico.
 
How many of you own homes?

Did you know that your house is typically valued by using 5 comparable houses in the same neighborhood. If you have foreclosures in your neighborhood then these are used in that calculation. By allowing these mortgage companies to just go belly up then more foreclosures will occur and the housing market will fall even further.

If you own a home, even if you can afford it, you are going to get screwed if these companies go belly up. The CEOs are not going to get screwed they all ready have their money.

Yes a bailout is BS but without it a lot of people could easily be worse off including you.

The great depression was caused by many factors some of them were:
high level of debt (check)
increasing prices and stagnant wages (check)
a drastic economic event, then massive layoffs now mortgage failure, resulted in a huge decrease in consumer spending (maybe)
stock market crash (slowly)
decline in the availabilty of money and banks going under (check)
 
necrotimus said:
How many of you own homes?

Did you know that your house is typically valued by using 5 comparable houses in the same neighborhood. If you have foreclosures in your neighborhood then these are used in that calculation.
Click to expand...
My biggest hit is my home taxes. If most of them are in foreclosure, what does that do to me? :confused:
 
Well most of us appear to agree that these bums that ran their companies into the ground shouldn't be rewarded with a bail-out.

It is also fair to say (I think) that families that are facing foreclosures due to not fully understanding ARM's and buying into a mortgage bankers sale pitch is not as culpable as the bankers.

You know a good portion of this mess could have been avoided if the greed of the finance industry had not gotten in the way and they would have just kept the ARM's from adjusting to a point where they were unaffordable anymore. But I guess that was too simple and would make it difficult for someone else to profiteer off of misfortune. As they say half a loaf is better than none, or in this case a 5% note of something is better than a 10% note of nothing.

As for the assertions that everything would be wonderful if there was no government intervention or medling in the "Free Market" is astonishing to me.

First, someone show me one 1st world economy like that now? Or tell me of one that has ever existed? If I'm not mistaken anarchy was already tried and found to be undesirable.

You have to have an independent impartial governmental entity to enforce the rules of a free market and guard against its inherent faults which is greed and self interest to the detriment of the common good necessary to have a peaceful society. (There's that word that sounds like the dreaded "Socialism") This inherent fault is what we are experiencing right now.

I can tell from the posts that we are actually not really that different. It is obvious that we all care about America and want it to be the great country we learned about and became proud of in grade school. I was born in 1954 and grew up believeing in the righteousness of our constitution, the rule of law, the goodness of us towards other nations and the less fortunate, and the love of a country who saved the world. (All of which has been trampled (IMO) by the neo-cons.)

What I see now in most of our business leaders and politicians is just the greed and self-interest and the lack of true patriotism to make sure that America remains economically strong, with good jobs here at good wages. They ship jobs overseas to countries with no environmental or labor laws to lower costs to increase profits for themselves to America's detriment and then they call it "Free Market Principals". (Like they are immutable laws of physics!)

I'm tired of being F'd around by these bastards. I care about myself but I also care about my neighbors and other human beings trying to make a living. I don't worry about millionaires or billionaires. Their greed has brought us here not the mythical "Welfare Queens", social programs or taxes. We support them, they don't support us. This bail-out BS is a case in point.

I say let system colapse and these rich bastards loose everything. It appears to me to be the only way that working people like us wil be able to take back our democracy and our country.
 
Botch said:
My biggest hit is my home taxes. If most of them are in foreclosure, what does that do to me? :confused:
Click to expand...


Well depending on where you live the city, county, state will wait (maybe several years) to revalue your home so even though its value has dropped 50% you will still be paying what is was worth at its highest value. The county has my town house valued at over $300,000.00, what it was worth a year ago. I live in suburbia so there are plenty of houses that are "bank owned". Fair market value now for my house is $200,000. I didn't buy a house I couldn't afford, I purchased it 6 years ago and my mortgage is still lower than what my home is worth but my houses value fell $25,000 this month alone it won't be long until the majority of people in the country are carrying a huge sum of dept because their houses value has dropped 50% or more.

Cyberhomes.com punch in your address
 
Oscar54 said:
I say let system colapse and these rich bastards loose everything. It appears to me to be the only way that working people like us wil be able to take back our democracy and our country.
Click to expand...

Well if you aren't careful the net effect of all this is we won't be working people anymore.
 
necrotimus said:
Question... assume your mortgage company goes under and can't sell the mortgage to someone else what happens to your home when you dont own all of it?

I don't know and I'm not sure that anyone has an answer... I'm not worried about a few companies going under I am worried about the entire economy going under.
Click to expand...
your mortgage would be bought up by another bank when the failing lenders assets are liquidated. to you it will be no difference.

but look on the bright side, if the person you owe disappears and no one takes over, do you get your house for free?


from what I've heard credit companies are going to look at the 07-08 years the same way they look at medical bills, despite how bad it looks it's not going to mean as much as if the economy was good and you lost stuff. I don't know if it's true but it works for me :thumbup:
 
necrotimus said:
Well depending on where you live the city, county, state will wait (maybe several years) to revalue your home so even though its value has dropped 50% you will still be paying what is was worth at its highest value. The county has my town house valued at over $300,000.00, what it was worth a year ago. I live in suburbia so there are plenty of houses that are \"bank owned\". Fair market value now for my house is $200,000. I didn't buy a house I couldn't afford, I purchased it 6 years ago and my mortgage is still lower than what my home is worth but my houses value fell $25,000 this month alone it won't be long until the majority of people in the country are carrying a huge sum of dept because their houses value has dropped 50% or more.

Cyberhomes.com punch in your address
Click to expand...
my neighborhood has fallen 2/3 in value my $150,000 house is now worth around $50,000 max. actually let me rephrase that the "banks" $150000 house is worth $50000, but in reality it's worth less then that because they can't even sell those houses and they are 4bdr mine is a 3. so to them I say enjoy your houseing track, I will not be missing it ;)
 
Oscar54 said:
Well most of us appear to agree that these bums that ran their companies into the ground shouldn't be rewarded with a bail-out.

It is also fair to say (I think) that families that are facing foreclosures due to not fully understanding ARM's and buying into a mortgage bankers sale pitch is not as culpable as the bankers.

You know a good portion of this mess could have been avoided if the greed of the finance industry had not gotten in the way and they would have just kept the ARM's from adjusting to a point where they were unaffordable anymore. But I guess that was too simple and would make it difficult for someone else to profiteer off of misfortune. As they say half a loaf is better than none, or in this case a 5% note of something is better than a 10% note of nothing.

As for the assertions that everything would be wonderful if there was no government intervention or medling in the \"Free Market\" is astonishing to me.

First, someone show me one 1st world economy like that now? Or tell me of one that has ever existed? If I'm not mistaken anarchy was already tried and found to be undesirable.

You have to have an independent impartial governmental entity to enforce the rules of a free market and guard against its inherent faults which is greed and self interest to the detriment of the common good necessary to have a peaceful society. (There's that word that sounds like the dreaded \"Socialism\") This inherent fault is what we are experiencing right now.

I can tell from the posts that we are actually not really that different. It is obvious that we all care about America and want it to be the great country we learned about and became proud of in grade school. I was born in 1954 and grew up believeing in the righteousness of our constitution, the rule of law, the goodness of us towards other nations and the less fortunate, and the love of a country who saved the world. (All of which has been trampled (IMO) by the neo-cons.)

What I see now in most of our business leaders and politicians is just the greed and self-interest and the lack of true patriotism to make sure that America remains economically strong, with good jobs here at good wages. They ship jobs overseas to countries with no environmental or labor laws to lower costs to increase profits for themselves to America's detriment and then they call it \"Free Market Principals\". (Like they are immutable laws of physics!)

I'm tired of being F'd around by these bastards. I care about myself but I also care about my neighbors and other human beings trying to make a living. I don't worry about millionaires or billionaires. Their greed has brought us here not the mythical \"Welfare Queens\", social programs or taxes. We support them, they don't support us. This bail-out BS is a case in point.

I say let system colapse and these rich bastards loose everything. It appears to me to be the only way that working people like us wil be able to take back our democracy and our country.
Click to expand...

I, for one, am sick and tired of seeing this blanket assertion that wealthy corporate folks are greedy "bastards." Yes, there are bad apples in every bucket (including the welfare bucket), but to assert that it is representative is ignorant. Frankly, in a society such as ours (for now at least), you will find certain individuals succeeding in growing their bank accounts. And you know what? They do it because, in general (there are contradictory anecdotes for any argument of course), they are smarter, more skilled, more educated, more hard-working than others. You can change governments, laws, frameworks to dumb everyone down to the mediocritic middle if you like. But you will never be able to change the diversity of mental or physical attributes.

One could argue - easily - that this financial mess is not the work of the great finance firms. They did not create the housing bubble. Blaming the companies that provide the financial tools is analogous to saying guns kill people.

Again, I agree that they should not be bailed out, but for very different reasons.
 
i dont know. cant really blame one political group cause they all suck. mell of a hess right now and i dont have a solution. think i will invest in some chickens,maybe a hog or two. couple of calves. this is how my dad's family made it through the depression. and it is looking closer to that than anyone is willing to admit. i say heck no on the bail out.
 
Quote: One could argue - easily - that this financial mess is not the work of the great finance firms. They did not create the housing bubble. Blaming the companies that provide the financial tools is analogous to saying guns kill people.

I agree that the people who did no research and bit off more than they could chew need to step up to their responsibility. However, these rich (greedy B types as everyone calls them) bank executives, CEO's, decision makers looked at the arm loans and the like and thought...we stand to return several hundred more percent in profit...giving us x number of dollars knowing full well that it is morally wrong and legalized extortion to the people who would buy into it. Then they take these inflated figures to Congress, when their "crooked" deal went sour on a massive scale, and say we lost "x" amount of money. I'm sorry but you were rich already and trying to get even richer by trying to squeeze more money out of the American public in an even more crooked way. The figures are BS because the deals were BS. I'm not feelin' sorry for them.:Flip:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top