Does your bike have ABS?
US biker sues Harley in ABS light case - Motorcycle news: Bizarre - Visordown
US biker sues Harley in ABS light case - Motorcycle news: Bizarre - Visordown
US biker sues Harley in ABS light case
- Thread starter grommit
- Start date
This will be interesting..........................................
Nelly
Nelly
IndyFZ6
Junior Member
Sounds to me like the rider should have known his equipment better. Will definitely be interesting to see how this plays out in court.
ChevyFazer
Redneck MacGyver
I can kind of see where he is coming from IF the salesman actually told him it had abs but how do you prove that if the salesman argues otherwise. But without that being involved this seems like another idiot trying to sue mcdonalds for burning their toung on hot coffee. If he wasn't going too fast for conditions it would have never happened, or maybe if he was on a fz lol
I agree with the McDonald's analogy. Litigation is bordering on the edge of stupidity.
"There are no accidents, just blame".
Weren't McDonald's sued over a hot apple pie filling a while ago?
I am very sorry that this Guys wife is injured. ABS may not have saved the crash.
Is there a Parody? Guy owns bike with ABS, crashes even though he has ABS and wife is injured. Who is he going to sue then?
The wife should sue him for not knowing his machinery and riding in a way that endangered her.
It go's on and on...
Nelly
ChevyFazer
Redneck MacGyver
Yup that IMO is one of the worst problems with everyone in this country, no accountability, always wanting to point their crocked little fingers at everybody else, trying to get others to feel sorry for them.
No offense to members in California or 99.9% of Californians but this to me sounds not a whole lot different than the moron in the Prius saying the gas pedal stuck to the floor............
Anyway I had a 98 New beetle, the instrument cluster said ABS, but it never lit up when the car was first started etc, I even got an insurance reduction for it. The car didn't have it and I knew that. Harley should counter sue DMV for giving this guy a motorcycle license. Even if it did have ABS what is to say it would have worked and not malfunctioned. Even with the jab to the ribs comment, it is still a simple matter of the guy riding out of his abilities.
This to me is as pathetic as the m:spank:y Mercedes saved my life commercials....
Anyway I had a 98 New beetle, the instrument cluster said ABS, but it never lit up when the car was first started etc, I even got an insurance reduction for it. The car didn't have it and I knew that. Harley should counter sue DMV for giving this guy a motorcycle license. Even if it did have ABS what is to say it would have worked and not malfunctioned. Even with the jab to the ribs comment, it is still a simple matter of the guy riding out of his abilities.
This to me is as pathetic as the m:spank:y Mercedes saved my life commercials....
Tailgate
Senior Member
I don't know much about ABS indicator lights. Are they supposed to be on all the time while it's in effect? If the light is not lit, does that mean that the ABS is not functioning? If one's turn signal dash indicator lights don't light up, does that mean that your exterior turn signal is burned out? Sometimes, dash indicator lights come on only when there's a malfunction. I suppose if I thought I had ABS that I would tend to not worry too much about applying too much lever pressure and locking up? At any rate, with the damages being sought, no doubt there's an attorney licking chops over the possibility of winning. Juries, as we all know, tend to give a green light over these kinds of awards. The passenger with brain damage will have, no doubt, a big impression on the jurors.
ChevyFazer
Redneck MacGyver
Most of the time if a abs light stays on it means something with the abs is messed up and not working properly, and on some vehicles it comes on when the abs is activated
Here in the UK as part of the yearly inspection, "MOT", if your vehicle has ABS then they will check the light goes on and then goes off, it will fail the inspection otherwise.
I expect a lot of people do not know what features their "product" has, be it a car or a Blu-ray player. My car has ABS, ESP, EBA and DVD
I don't think he is right to sue but I understand his feeling if what he says is true.
Jury service next month
I expect a lot of people do not know what features their "product" has, be it a car or a Blu-ray player. My car has ABS, ESP, EBA and DVD
I don't think he is right to sue but I understand his feeling if what he says is true.
Jury service next month
It seems pretty stupid of a manufacture to "simulate" that a vehicle has an option which it doesn't and further more senseless that an owner doesn't know enough about the vehicle to observe an that "said option" doesn't exist.
But that's all pointless and its likely not what this is all about. Just a way to use the system.
FYI: If a bought a new auto from the stealership with a V8 emblem on the side, I'd expect to see 8 jugs. . . but then I would have read the options list too.
That's too bad for the guys wife. . . .
But that's all pointless and its likely not what this is all about. Just a way to use the system.
FYI: If a bought a new auto from the stealership with a V8 emblem on the side, I'd expect to see 8 jugs. . . but then I would have read the options list too.
That's too bad for the guys wife. . . .
mnuttall87
Junior Member
US Dept of Transportation article on the effectiveness of ABS vs non ABS -- http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811182.pdf.
This should be the launch point for this case as well. In fatal crashes, effect of ABS is 0. In non-fatal it can show up to 6% improvement (mind you this is in passenger vehicles, not motorcycles). Worth taking a look.
I think this is rider error looking for somebody to blame. Its an unfortunate circumstance, but maybe motorcycling isn't for him if he has to rely on a feature like ABS to stay out of a crash.
This should be the launch point for this case as well. In fatal crashes, effect of ABS is 0. In non-fatal it can show up to 6% improvement (mind you this is in passenger vehicles, not motorcycles). Worth taking a look.
I think this is rider error looking for somebody to blame. Its an unfortunate circumstance, but maybe motorcycling isn't for him if he has to rely on a feature like ABS to stay out of a crash.
Tailgate
Senior Member
Here in the UK as part of the yearly inspection, "MOT", if your vehicle has ABS then they will check the light goes on and then goes off, it will fail the inspection otherwise.
I expect a lot of people do not know what features their "product" has, be it a car or a Blu-ray player. My car has ABS, ESP, EBA and DVD
I know somebody who didn't know even what MAKE the vehicle she was driving was. Thought it was a "Pontiac" when it was actually a "Plymouth." Now, I'm not suggesting that the owner was so stupid that he thought he was riding a "Honda" but, I'm just saying...
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My ABS light goes on during the start up test. Of course you can easily see if a bike has ABS by looking, but if the guy is non technical he might not notice this.
I'm pretty sure that HD will say :rtfm:
That being said I think he would be able to sue the salesman if he can prove that he said it had ABS (I'm afraid having said that chicks love ABS will not be enough).
having said this the courts never cease to amaze me so we'll wait and see
I'm pretty sure that HD will say :rtfm:
That being said I think he would be able to sue the salesman if he can prove that he said it had ABS (I'm afraid having said that chicks love ABS will not be enough).
having said this the courts never cease to amaze me so we'll wait and see
Rider is a moron. How can you go riding that long on your bike and not know that you have or don't have ABS.
Obviously, this guy didn't even bother practicing his emergency braking in an open parking lot. Might have saved his passengers life. Wonder what type of helmet she was wearing. A non-DOT approved helmet? Half Bucket?
Obviously, this guy didn't even bother practicing his emergency braking in an open parking lot. Might have saved his passengers life. Wonder what type of helmet she was wearing. A non-DOT approved helmet? Half Bucket?
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Really? ABS on Road Glide? That's akin to putting ABS on an M1A1...However, at what age or stature in life do you become responsible for your own actions?
Hopefully the suit will be thrown out, know what you ride, ride what you know...
Hopefully the suit will be thrown out, know what you ride, ride what you know...
Am I really alone here in thinking that if a bike doesn't have ABS, then it should definitely NOT have an "ABS" light on the dash, even if it never lights up? Are you kidding me?
Standard procedure is to produce those dashes with a small black plastic plug in lieu of a transparent warning light with "ABS" clearly written on it. Jesus wept.
I'm not saying anything about his particular case/crash, just that it is monumentally stupid for HD to be so lazy and expose themselves to liability risk in a case exactly such as this one.
FAIL HD, big time.
Standard procedure is to produce those dashes with a small black plastic plug in lieu of a transparent warning light with "ABS" clearly written on it. Jesus wept.
I'm not saying anything about his particular case/crash, just that it is monumentally stupid for HD to be so lazy and expose themselves to liability risk in a case exactly such as this one.
FAIL HD, big time.
spectacle13
young wanderer
seems wrong for them to put the light there if it's not an option.... BUT!!!! the fact that this idi... *cough* i mean harley rider was not smart enough to
1. read his owner's manual to find out if ABS was an option or standard.
2. read his owners manual on how to verify your ABS is active.
3. ride a bike the size of a tank with a passenger at speeds or conditions beyond his, and most likely the bikes ability without at least having done 1 and 2.
to me means this is a sad, frivilous lawsuit the likes of which are killing our court system, and wasting countless tax dollars because someone was an idiot and a lawyer told them they could get paid for thier accident. when does the hammer come down on these ambulance chasing lawyers? seriously....... and the driver.....again.....wtf. buuuut, not to single out a specific make, but i find alot of "larger" cruiser riders are like this guy.
i actually work with a guy that's convinced he's been riding long enough he can't learn anything from an MSF class and thinks he shouldn't have to take one. and is rebuilding his tank sized bike now to take to the roads (80s goldwing) arggh......
1. read his owner's manual to find out if ABS was an option or standard.
2. read his owners manual on how to verify your ABS is active.
3. ride a bike the size of a tank with a passenger at speeds or conditions beyond his, and most likely the bikes ability without at least having done 1 and 2.
to me means this is a sad, frivilous lawsuit the likes of which are killing our court system, and wasting countless tax dollars because someone was an idiot and a lawyer told them they could get paid for thier accident. when does the hammer come down on these ambulance chasing lawyers? seriously....... and the driver.....again.....wtf. buuuut, not to single out a specific make, but i find alot of "larger" cruiser riders are like this guy.
i actually work with a guy that's convinced he's been riding long enough he can't learn anything from an MSF class and thinks he shouldn't have to take one. and is rebuilding his tank sized bike now to take to the roads (80s goldwing) arggh......
WIyamirider
Junior Member
Pretty much every vehicle has the ability to have "icons" that don't light up. For example, I had a 2008 Silverado, which didn't have traction control. However, that was an option, so there is an icon in the dash. You couldn't really see it unless you shined a light on it, or the sun hit it just right, but there was no light bulb behind the icon. My 2010 Silverado has traction control, so the icon now lights up when I start the truck, and flashes when it activates. I don't spend very much time around Harley's, but I'm going to guess that they have the same style of car dash overlay on the gauges. If they have a big amber lens with "ABS" written on it stuck on the dash, and they pull the bulb out of that, then yeah, that's pretty dumb, and the rest of my post is moot, except the last sentence.
From the article:
The defence are claiming that the manufacturer puts this icon on all bikes to ensure that bikes that do have ABS will definitely have the accompanying light. The defence lawyer went on to say: "There's nothing odd or unique about a non-ABS bike having ABS. If the icon doesn't light up when you start the bike, anybody should know you don't have ABS."
It would be cost prohibitive to manufacture a dash overlay for every conceivable option combination. The manufacturers simply leave the light out for systems that don't exist, and state in the manual "If the light doesn't come on, your vehicle doesn't have it". I'm sure that Harley's owners manuals have been sent through a rigorous legal proofreading before they are printed to be sure they are covered in situations such as this.
It royally sucks that this guy's wife got messed up pretty bad, but I really don't think that this is something that Harley is responsible for.
This sentence from the defense does not make logical sense:
"There's nothing odd or unique about a non-ABS bike having ABS."
By definition, there is something indeed odd about something that is not something being something after all. Thin defense indeed.
EDIT: I agree that the rider should have known his equipment, by experience if nothing else. As Kenny pointed out, this guy did not do full force parking lot panic stop practice. If he had, he surely would have either experienced his ABS in action or not.
"There's nothing odd or unique about a non-ABS bike having ABS."
By definition, there is something indeed odd about something that is not something being something after all. Thin defense indeed.
EDIT: I agree that the rider should have known his equipment, by experience if nothing else. As Kenny pointed out, this guy did not do full force parking lot panic stop practice. If he had, he surely would have either experienced his ABS in action or not.
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